16:58:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
16:58:48 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/07/22-aria-irc
16:58:50 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:58:52 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn
16:58:55 <jamesn> chair: JamesNurthen
16:58:58 <jamesn> meeting: ARIA WG
16:59:57 <Jemma> present+
17:00:47 <mgarrish> present+
17:00:48 <jamesn> regrets: HarrisScheiderman PeterKrautzberger JonGunderson
17:00:57 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
17:03:36 <jamesn> agenda+ [New Issue Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2021-07-15+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues)
17:03:36 <jamesn> agenda+ [New PR Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2021-07-15+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues)
17:03:36 <jamesn> agenda+ [Meaty topic for next week](https://github.com/search?q=is%3Aopen+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam+label%3Adeep-dive&type=Issues)
17:03:37 <jamesn> agenda+ DPUB-ARIA 1.1 - Publish FPWD CFC
17:03:37 <jamesn>   - Also how to get DPUB-AAM ready?
17:03:37 <jamesn> agenda+ [Why is outline depth involved in the level exposed for h1-h6?](https://github.com/w3c/html-aam/issues/336)
17:03:37 <jamesn> agenda+ [When is hidden content taken into calculation of name and description?](https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/57)
17:05:32 <Scott_O> Scott_O has joined #aria
17:05:49 <jamesn> zakim, next item
17:05:49 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- [New Issue Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2021-07-15+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2
17:05:52 <Zakim> ... Fcore-aam&type=Issues) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:05:58 <jamesn> https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2021-07-15+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues
17:06:35 <jamesn> scribe: Scott_O
17:07:54 <Scott_O> issue 1515 - mark as 1.3
17:08:25 <Scott_O> mark issue 1513 as aria 1.4
17:08:37 <StefanS> StefanS has joined #aria
17:08:45 <StefanS> present+
17:09:52 <Scott_O> mark issue 1511 as a won't fix
17:10:22 <Scott_O> action: jamesn mark 1511 as won't fix
17:10:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2158 - Mark 1511 as won't fix [on James Nurthen - due 2021-07-29].
17:10:40 <Scott_O> zakim, next item
17:10:40 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- [New PR Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2021-07-15+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-
17:10:43 <Zakim> ... aam&type=Issues) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:10:45 <jamesn> https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2021-07-15+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues
17:11:01 <sarah_higley> sarah_higley has joined #aria
17:13:35 <Scott_O> zakim, next item
17:13:35 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- [Meaty topic for next week](https://github.com/search?q=is%3Aopen+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam+label%3Adeep-dive&type
17:13:38 <Zakim> ... =Issues) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:13:43 <jamesn> https://github.com/search?q=is%3Aopen+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam+label%3Adeep-dive&type=Issues
17:14:22 <Scott_O> cyns: if not finishing hidden elements in accName, then next deep dive?
17:14:50 <Scott_O> jamesn: hidden or something else?
17:15:10 <Scott_O> jamesn: have one next week, but not for 2 weeks after that
17:15:46 <Scott_O> jamesn: due to implementors on vacation, no deep dive for next 3 weeks
17:15:50 <Scott_O> zakim, next item
17:15:50 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- DPUB-ARIA 1.1 - Publish FPWD CFC -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:16:11 <jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/dpub-aria
17:16:17 <Scott_O> jamesn: first public wd ready for fist FPWD.
17:16:30 <jamesn> https://w3c.github.io/dpub-aria/
17:16:55 <Scott_O> MattGarrish: ready for review.  have some new things we're adding, but need to do some cleanup.
17:17:19 <Scott_O> jamesn: can do a cfc out for this.  maybe approval by next week.
17:17:47 <Scott_O> action: jamesn to create cfc
17:17:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2159 - Create cfc [on James Nurthen - due 2021-07-29].
17:17:58 <Scott_O> jamesn: but what to do about dpub aam?
17:18:31 <Matt_King> Matt_King has joined #aria
17:19:01 <Scott_O> MattGarrish: shouldn't be a lot of changes for 1.1 AAM.  hopefully shouldn't be much to it.
17:19:11 <Matt_King> present+
17:19:32 <Scott_O> jamesn: page footer and page header don't appear to have AXAPI
17:21:54 <Scott_O> jamesn: just need to get the mac mapping. Matt try to contact james craig to push this forward.
17:23:40 <Scott_O> joanie: i would suggest we file issues against the UAs we want to implement
17:25:21 <Scott_O> zakim, next item
17:25:21 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- [Why is outline depth involved in the level exposed for h1-h6?](https://github.com/w3c/html-aam/issues/336) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:27:01 <Scott_O> Scott_O: this issue is about the outline algorithm and if we should implement
17:27:18 <Scott_O> cyns: browsers that change levels against expressed intent is usually not good
17:27:35 <Scott_O> jamesn: kind of agree except in certain cases - consumed content from other places
17:28:38 <Scott_O> joanie: - gives example about how google news uses h3s, but if implementing this it could undo this known heading level
17:29:20 <Scott_O> mKing: unless author say do this for "this" part of the page, this seems like a bad idea
17:29:46 <Scott_O> BryanG: i'm not in favor of it myself.  too many ways for this to break.
17:32:32 <Scott_O> consensus from group is to not implement outline algorithm
17:35:59 <Scott_O> Scott_O: I will remove mention of outline depth from HTML AAM
17:36:22 <Scott_O> zakim, next item
17:36:22 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- [When is hidden content taken into calculation of name and description?](https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/57) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:37:18 <Scott_O> jamesn: no progress on this issue in the last week, but we need to make progress
17:38:26 <Scott_O> cyns: the use case for the double hidden was about 'super tooltips'.  which seem these should be aria details instead of aria-describedby.  maybe we can punt on this?
17:39:22 <Scott_O> jamnes: 2 problems.  1. aria-details is not well supported today.  2. legacy content could cause breakage
17:39:41 <Scott_O> cyns: i'm not sure if legacy 'super tooltips' were ever really accessible
17:40:22 <Scott_O> jamesn: i'm not sure i've ever seen our use case in the wild where we'd need to worry about the hidden content within a tooltip
17:40:48 <Scott_O> cyns: i think i was the one that wanted this in the first place. but, i'm no longer worried about this use case
17:41:42 <Scott_O> cyns: i expect that the pattern i was worried about at the time that this would have solved for is no longer as much of an issue
17:44:09 <Scott_O> jamesn: we need to better indicate what authors can expect
17:44:23 <Scott_O> jamesn: if we don't care about double hidden stuff, will this work?
17:45:40 <jamesn> "This step can produce surprising results, as when the innerText getter is invoked on an element not being rendered, its text contents are returned, but when accessed on an element that is being rendered, all of its children that are not being rendered have their text contents ignored."
17:46:31 <Scott_O> jamesn: if referencing an element that was visible vs when it becomes hidden, you can get different results
17:48:08 <Scott_O> jamesn: could we get a draft pull request with spec text to review this in detail more easily?
17:49:13 <Scott_O> BryanG: I can make a draft
17:51:42 <Scott_O> jamesn: then we can get implementors to review the draft to see if anything might break
17:53:31 <Scott_O> rrsh, make minutes
17:53:40 <Scott_O> rrsagen, make minutes
17:53:47 <Scott_O> rrsagent, make minutes
17:53:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/22-aria-minutes.html Scott_O
17:54:03 <sarah_higley> present+
17:54:13 <jamesn> present+
17:54:19 <Scott_O> present+
17:54:25 <Scott_O> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:54:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/22-aria-minutes.html Scott_O
18:01:31 <cyns> cyns has left #aria
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