13:39:50 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
13:39:50 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/07/01-i18n-irc
13:39:55 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #i18n
13:40:09 <addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference
13:40:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:40:15 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
13:40:15 <trackbot> Date: 01 July 2021
13:40:20 <agendabot> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Jun/0017.html
13:40:20 <agendabot> clear agenda
13:40:20 <agendabot> agenda+ Agenda Review
13:40:20 <agendabot> agenda+ Action Items
13:40:22 <agendabot> agenda+ Info Share
13:40:24 <agendabot> agenda+ RADAR Review
13:40:24 <addison> Chair: Addison Phillips
13:40:26 <agendabot> agenda+ String-Meta and Developing Manifests
13:40:29 <agendabot> agenda+ AOB?
13:40:52 <addison> agenda+ WebAuthn uses characters to indicate language and direction
13:41:28 <addison> agenda+ Please disseminate: TPAC 2021 Inclusion Fund and Fellowships
13:43:02 <addison> agenda+ Navigation for techniques & specdev pages
13:43:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/01-i18n-minutes.html addison
13:51:54 <addison> agenda+ Definitions of metadata https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Jun/0019.html
13:52:42 <xfq> xfq has joined #i18n
13:53:52 <addison> present+
13:54:45 <addison> agenda?
13:55:06 <addison> present+ Fuqiao
13:56:40 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #i18n
13:57:05 <David> David has joined #I18n
13:57:13 <JcK> JcK has joined #i18n
14:00:50 <addison> present+ JcK, Atsushi, Richard
14:01:57 <addison> present+ David
14:02:55 <addison> agenda?
14:03:44 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:03:44 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:04:24 <fsasaki> present+ fsasaki
14:04:25 <Bert> scribe+
14:05:22 <Bert> Discussions about the agenda.
14:05:37 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 2
14:05:37 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:05:46 <addison> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
14:06:16 <addison> action-1036?
14:06:16 <trackbot> action-1036 -- Felix Sasaki to Propose a definition of "metadata" for the string-meta bidi definitions -- due 2021-06-24 -- OPEN
14:06:16 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1036
14:06:20 <addison> close action-1036
14:06:20 <trackbot> Closed action-1036.
14:06:35 <addison> action-1037?
14:06:35 <trackbot> action-1037 -- Felix Sasaki to Provide a definition of 'metadata' for the i18n glossary -- due 2021-07-01 -- OPEN
14:06:35 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1037
14:06:39 <addison> close action-1037
14:06:39 <trackbot> Closed action-1037.
14:06:44 <Peter> Peter has joined #i18n
14:07:23 <addison> action-1040?
14:07:23 <trackbot> action-1040 -- Richard Ishida to Add a side note about dir to https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/questions/qa-html-language-declarations#contentvsattribute -- due 2021-07-01 -- OPEN
14:07:23 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1040
14:07:26 <addison> close action-1040
14:07:26 <trackbot> Closed action-1040.
14:07:40 <addison> action-1041?
14:07:40 <trackbot> action-1041 -- Richard Ishida to De-emphasise xhtml in https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/questions/qa-html-language-declarations#contentvsattribute -- due 2021-07-01 -- OPEN
14:07:40 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1041
14:07:43 <addison> close action-1041
14:07:43 <trackbot> Closed action-1041.
14:08:05 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 3
14:08:05 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:08:06 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-html-language-declarations
14:08:07 <Bert> r12a: That document is now published, https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1041
14:09:00 <Bert> JcK: I have conflicting meetings, presence may be intermittent this summer.
14:09:29 <r12a> https://r12a.github.io/app-counters/
14:09:55 <Bert> r12a: Counter styles converter app, you can now type number ranges.
14:10:19 <Bert> ... "1-10", instead of "1 2 3" etc.
14:10:21 <Najib> Najib has joined #i18n
14:10:41 <Bert> ... Can set options for output, such as fonts.
14:11:44 <Bert> ... Includes nearly all predefined counter styles and also allows defining new styles interactively and then copy-paste the resulting CSS rules.
14:11:55 <Bert> ... And it is now linked from MDN
14:12:31 <Bert> xfq: May be useful to add lang tags to the output.
14:12:42 <Bert> r12a: Yes.
14:12:51 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:12:51 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:12:59 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
14:13:38 <addison> agenda?
14:13:45 <Bert> addison: Nothing in "requested" column. Anything to add?
14:14:24 <Bert> r12a: We have two open issues in our tracker.
14:15:16 <Bert> ... we should do some housekeeping.
14:15:25 <r12a> https://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/#webauth
14:15:57 <Bert> ... they already have "close" labels.
14:16:00 <r12a> https://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/#webauthn
14:16:11 <r12a> s|https://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/#webauth||
14:17:14 <Bert> ... Aim is to move the webauthn card on the radar to the completed column.
14:17:38 <addison> agenda?
14:18:18 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 8
14:18:18 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- Please disseminate: TPAC 2021 Inclusion Fund and Fellowships -- taken up [from addison]
14:19:05 <Bert> r12a: Just to make sure everybody is aware of the opportunity.
14:19:09 <xfq> https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/9131
14:19:46 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 9
14:19:46 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- Navigation for techniques & specdev pages -- taken up [from addison]
14:19:50 <r12a> https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/techniques/authoring-html
14:20:09 <r12a> https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/techniques/authoring-html.en
14:20:28 <Bert> r12a: That's the current page ^^.
14:21:10 <r12a> https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/techniques/authoring-html-new.en
14:21:23 <Bert> ... Problem with it is that jumping into it with a URL is possible, but it conflicts with the Back button.
14:21:28 <r12a> https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/techniques/authoring-html-new
14:22:05 <Bert> ... This one ^^ is a flat page, everything expanded, but instead has a menu along the top.
14:22:15 <Bert> addison: Do the old query links still work?
14:22:31 <Bert> r12a: Haven't tried, but they probably would.
14:23:03 <Bert> ... But I need to check. The link next to each heading seems to have disappeared…
14:23:47 <Bert> addison: The old one looked vaguely like a checklist, although it wasn't a checklist.
14:24:08 <Bert> r12a: This one is more intended to guide people to material we have.
14:24:47 <Bert> xfq: There is no collapsed view anymore?
14:25:09 <Bert> r12a: Correct, but the ToC at the top replaces that.
14:25:44 <Bert> xfq: If I want to go to another section, I need to go via the "go to top" link?
14:26:19 <Bert> r12a: Yes, but the link may need a different label.
14:26:57 <Bert> xfq: How about putting the ToC at the left, like in WDs?
14:27:09 <atsushi> +1 for sticking at bottom (or top?)
14:27:33 <Bert> r12a: Could also make the ToC sticky, stuck to the bottom…
14:28:20 <Bert> Discussion about sticky and hover on mobile. And color contrast.
14:28:48 <addison> action: addison: remind members to review techniques/authoring-html-new for next telecon
14:28:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1042 - Remind members to review techniques/authoring-html-new for next telecon [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-07-08].
14:28:57 <Bert> JcK: It seems easier for people already familiar with the topics, maybe not for new people.
14:29:15 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 10
14:29:15 <Zakim> agendum 10 -- Definitions of metadata https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Jun/0019.html -- taken up [from addison]
14:29:31 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/pull/1
14:29:36 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/pull/2
14:30:30 <Bert> fsasaki: Can discuss here or in GitHub.
14:30:53 <fsasaki> https://fsasaki.github.io/i18n-glossary/#m
14:30:56 <addison> https://github.com/aphillips/string-meta/pull/2
14:31:01 <fsasaki> https://fsasaki.github.io/string-meta/#dfn-metadata
14:31:38 <Bert> ... See also the version rendered with the pull request ^^
14:32:33 <Bert> r12a: Maybe say s/defaults apply/default may apply/
14:34:43 <Bert> `Discussion about reading from the top vs starting at one term and following links.
14:35:47 <fsasaki> I will update the pull request with "might apply" now, so that you can merge it after the call
14:36:02 <Bert> r12a:  [scribe has unstable connection, didn't hear what Richard said]
14:36:31 <Bert> ... Just want to clarify who is going to do this.
14:36:42 <Bert> s/ [scribe has unstable connection, didn't hear what Richard said]//
14:36:49 <addison> action: richard: publish i18n-glossary as FPWD
14:36:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1043 - Publish i18n-glossary as fpwd [on Richard Ishida - due 2021-07-08].
14:37:31 <addison> agenda?
14:38:00 <addison> zakim, take up agendu 7
14:38:00 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up agendu 7', addison
14:38:06 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 7
14:38:06 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- WebAuthn uses characters to indicate language and direction -- taken up [from addison]
14:38:20 <Bert> r12a: I saw this this morning:
14:38:20 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/TR/webauthn-2/#sctn-strings-langdir
14:38:39 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/payment-request/issues/948#issuecomment-871897279
14:39:54 <Bert> ... They asked us to review in Oct, addison reviewed, completed in Dec, and after that this new text appeared in the spec.
14:40:04 <Bert> ... Looks like it was added in a hurry.
14:40:52 <Bert> ... What to do? Is this a wider issue with the W3C process? Involve plh?
14:41:16 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/webauthn/pull/1530#issuecomment-744988759
14:41:37 <Bert> addison: Looking at my archives... Here is a link ^^
14:41:57 <Bert> ... Did not finish that review.
14:42:13 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/webauthn/issues/1526
14:42:23 <Bert> ... We have an issue ^^
14:42:58 <Bert> r12a: Yes, but that issue was discussed well before the new section was added.
14:44:18 <Bert> ... So the problem is still that a large chunk of substantive text was added after and we weren't asked to review it.
14:46:18 <Bert> addison: The new text encodes language and direction with Unicode language tags in the string itself, and then trucnates it.
14:46:29 <Bert> r12a: And why is it at the *end* of the string?
14:47:20 <Bert> addison: That is to avoid that truncation removes the data. Truncation starts by removing the metadata instead.
14:48:19 <Bert> addison: It is similar to in RDF, the @lang is at the end.
14:50:12 <Bert> r12a: So there was some consideration of the encoding method, but it remains that there was no possibility for review. And it is a Rec now.
14:52:00 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/988
14:52:16 <Bert> r12a: We closed our issue, but that is not where the discussion took place.
14:54:25 <Bert> The issue points to the pull request with the new text about language tags inside the string, but it seems we didn't finish reviewing that pull request.
14:54:41 <addison> action: addison: contact PLH about webauthn issues and how to handle them
14:54:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1044 - Contact plh about webauthn issues and how to handle them [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-07-08].
14:54:56 <Bert> r12a: Also some typos, the pull request seems to have been done in a hurry.
14:55:03 <addison> action: addison: draft issues on webauth#sctn-strings-langdir
14:55:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1045 - Draft issues on webauth#sctn-strings-langdir [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-07-08].
14:55:42 <addison> agenda?
14:56:16 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 6
14:56:16 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:56:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/01-i18n-minutes.html addison
15:11:43 <addison> zakim, bye
15:11:43 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been addison, Fuqiao, JcK, Atsushi, Richard, David, fsasaki
15:11:43 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n