15:58:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
15:58:54 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/07/01-aria-irc
15:58:56 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:58:57 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn
15:58:59 <jamesn> meeting: ARIA WG
15:59:03 <jamesn> chair: JamesNurthen
15:59:57 <jamesn> agenda+ [New Issue Triage](https://bit.ly/3h4uI9U)
15:59:57 <jamesn> agenda+ [New PR Triage](https://bit.ly/3duHRag)
15:59:57 <jamesn> agenda+ Confirmation - Are we meeting next week?
15:59:57 <jamesn> agenda+ [Meaty topic for next week](https://bit.ly/3hsVmZk)
15:59:57 <jamesn> agenda+ [TPAC 2021](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1482)
15:59:58 <jamesn> agenda+ [When is hidden content taken into calculation of name and description?](https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/57)
15:59:58 <jamesn> agenda+ [Open PR reviews](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pulls)
17:00:00 <jamesn> agenda?
17:00:03 <jamesn> present+
17:00:42 <jamesn> regrets: CurtBellew PeterKrautzberger StefanSchnabel
17:01:55 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
17:03:12 <jcraig> present+ jcraig
17:03:34 <jcraig> scribe: jcraig
17:03:36 <MarkMcCarthy> MarkMcCarthy has joined #aria
17:03:42 <sarah_higley> sarah_higley has joined #aria
17:03:42 <jcraig> Zakim, take up item 1
17:03:42 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- [New Issue Triage](https://bit.ly/3h4uI9U) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:03:44 <sarah_higley> present+
17:03:47 <MarkMcCarthy> present+
17:04:14 <jcraig> jamesn: MathML 3 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1505
17:05:05 <harris> harris has joined #aria
17:06:06 <jcraig> Any examples we can point them to?
17:06:08 <harris> present+
17:06:31 <jcraig> jcraig: VoiceOver has native support for MathML... why ARIA?
17:06:53 <jcraig> jamesn: others in the group that could contribute?
17:09:15 <jcraig> joanie: MathML is being implemented in Chromium by Igalia
17:09:57 <jcraig> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/940
17:11:17 <jcraig> jcraig: Assign to Neil Soiffer?
17:11:41 <jcraig> ACTION: jamesn to assign Neil Soiffer
17:11:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2154 - Assign neil soiffer [on James Nurthen - due 2021-07-08].
17:11:52 <jcraig> Zakim, close item 1
17:11:52 <Zakim> agendum 1, [New Issue Triage](https://bit.ly/3h4uI9U), closed
17:11:53 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:11:53 <Zakim> 2. [New PR Triage](https://bit.ly/3duHRag) [from jamesn]
17:12:03 <jcraig> Zakim, take up item 2
17:12:03 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- [New PR Triage](https://bit.ly/3duHRag) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:12:08 <jcraig> Zakim, close item 2
17:12:08 <Zakim> agendum 2, [New PR Triage](https://bit.ly/3duHRag), closed
17:12:09 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:12:09 <Zakim> 3. Confirmation - Are we meeting next week? [from jamesn]
17:12:12 <jcraig> Zakim, take up item 3
17:12:12 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Confirmation - Are we meeting next week? -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:12:30 <jcraig> jamesn: I'm on vacation next week
17:13:08 <jcraig> cyns: available, but MS no meeting week due to holiday
17:13:30 <jcraig> jcraig: also available. but not the following week.
17:13:37 <jcraig> Bryan: avaiable
17:13:48 <jcraig> William: double booked
17:14:11 <jcraig> jamesn: joanie to chair or cancel at her discretion
17:14:19 <jcraig> Zakim, close item 3
17:14:19 <Zakim> agendum 3, Confirmation - Are we meeting next week?, closed
17:14:20 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:14:20 <Zakim> 4. [Meaty topic for next week](https://bit.ly/3hsVmZk) [from jamesn]
17:14:25 <jcraig> Zakim, take up item 4
17:14:25 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- [Meaty topic for next week](https://bit.ly/3hsVmZk) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:15:07 <jcraig> No meeting next week, but meaty topic for the following week July 15
17:15:31 <jcraig> Cyns: Another deep dive on AccName
17:15:44 <jcraig> s/AccName/AccName?/
17:15:54 <jcraig> jamesn: jcraig not available that week
17:16:28 <jcraig> Zakim, close item 4
17:16:28 <Zakim> agendum 4, [Meaty topic for next week](https://bit.ly/3hsVmZk), closed
17:16:29 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:16:29 <Zakim> 5. [TPAC 2021](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1482) [from jamesn]
17:16:32 <jcraig> Zakim, take up item 5
17:16:32 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- [TPAC 2021](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1482) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:16:53 <jcraig> jamesn: anyone to meet with, or not at all?
17:17:16 <jcraig> if no response, we'll answer Judy that we're not meeting
17:18:07 <jcraig> Zakim, close item 5
17:18:07 <Zakim> agendum 5, [TPAC 2021](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1482), closed
17:18:09 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:18:09 <Zakim> 6. [When is hidden content taken into calculation of name and description?](https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/57) [from jamesn]
17:18:11 <jcraig> Zakim, take up item 6
17:18:11 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- [When is hidden content taken into calculation of name and description?](https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/57) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:18:24 <WT_NFCU> WT_NFCU has joined #aria
17:18:58 <jcraig> jamesn: consensus from deep dive was to consider using innerText
17:20:00 <jcraig> jcraig: on the surface it seems reasonable... still need to vet
17:20:05 <jcraig> cyns: same
17:21:07 <jcraig> joanie: college hakobo function to return innerText returns empty string when element is not visible
17:21:24 <jcraig> s/college/colleague/
17:21:49 <jcraig> s/hakobo/hakobo mentioned/
17:23:00 <jcraig> jamesn: in the debugger right now... seems to work
17:25:49 <jcraig> Zakim, close item 6
17:25:49 <Zakim> agendum 6, [When is hidden content taken into calculation of name and description?](https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/57), closed
17:25:51 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
17:25:51 <Zakim> 7. [Open PR reviews](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pulls) [from jamesn]
17:25:56 <jcraig> Zakim, take up item 7
17:25:56 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- [Open PR reviews](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pulls) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:26:33 <jcraig> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1498
17:27:07 <jcraig> jamesn: still draft. Sarah?
17:27:23 <jcraig> sarah_higley: joanie asked me to link a test page.. will do.
17:27:33 <jcraig> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1497
17:27:49 <irfan> irfan has joined #aria
17:28:30 <jcraig> ready to merge, though joanie Scott, and Melanie discussing.
17:28:58 <jcraig> Scott: shouldn't need role=none on an image with alt=""
17:30:13 <jcraig> is there still a diff between `alt` and `alt=""`?
17:30:31 <jcraig> s/is/jcraig: is/
17:30:42 <jcraig> Scott: should be equivalent
17:31:15 <jcraig> s/diff/implementation difference/
17:31:28 <jcraig> jamesn: joanie, okay to merge?
17:31:56 <jcraig> joanie: okay to merge... though possibly add meaty topic for childrenPresentational
17:32:09 <jcraig> jamesn: agreed. merging.
17:32:29 <jcraig> Action: jamesn to merge #1497
17:32:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2155 - Merge #1497 [on James Nurthen - due 2021-07-08].
17:32:32 <jcraig> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1496
17:35:25 <jcraig> Scott: "Do not restrict img naming to aria-label/labelledby" for example, <img> in HTML host language...
17:36:25 <jcraig> Bryan: would alt attribute work on div?
17:36:46 <jcraig> Scott: no b/c alt not allowed on div.... title attribute would work though
17:37:04 <jcraig> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1494
17:37:26 <jcraig> "Prohibit presentation / none on where it causes conflict resolution"
17:37:43 <jcraig> joanie: still open, discussing.
17:39:10 <jcraig> Scott: please also add me as reviewer... may be some overlap with ARIA in HTML
17:39:22 <jcraig> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1484
17:39:22 <jcraig> "Remove aria-level from listitem"
17:40:30 <jcraig> jamesn: reviewers will approve... thank you William!
17:40:34 <jcraig> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1477
17:40:43 <jcraig> "Revisions to accessible name required"
17:41:48 <jcraig> mix of editorial along with normative changes.... because of the normative update, can't merge to 1.3 without tests....
17:43:17 <jcraig> jamesn: actually, I think I can because this doesn't change any UA requirement, only validators... so no validator tests required. any objections to merge?
17:43:42 <jcraig> joanie: should put this on the Wiki page for author MUST?
17:44:21 <jcraig> Scott: any validators identified that we should run tests against?
17:44:44 <jcraig> jamesn: axe and others
17:45:25 <jcraig> any others using same rule engine, axe is the primary using that rule engine
17:45:55 <jcraig> jamesn: planning to use the axe cli...
17:46:40 <jcraig> joanie: nu validator
17:46:55 <jcraig> jamesn: also some ne ibm validator
17:47:08 <jcraig> s/ne ibm/new ibm/
17:47:14 <jcraig> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1467
17:47:21 <jcraig> "aria-disabled and descendant elements"
17:48:36 <jcraig> jamesn: can I get another reviewer? (crickets)
17:52:57 <jcraig> (Scott bribes jcraig with a t-shirt)
17:53:06 <jcraig> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1454
17:53:15 <jcraig> "Update required owned elements and required context role"
17:54:33 <jcraig> s/ t-shirt/ t-shirt "I'm fine, but check my fineness"/
17:55:00 <jcraig> jamesn: Sarah to resolve.. I will merge.
17:55:14 <jcraig> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1298
17:55:25 <jcraig> "Update caption role example"
17:56:52 <jcraig> jamesn: not overcome by events.. limits example to providing accessible name
17:57:58 <jcraig> Scott: example was originally in there to show either caption or description.. this PR removes that.. We should not approve.
17:58:38 <jcraig> jamesn: b/c it no longer automatically names its parent
17:59:56 <jcraig> jamesn: overcome by events due to other changes in the naming mechanism to allow encapsulation and its inverse... but those are reverted, so PR #1298 is no longer necessary.
18:01:08 <jcraig> jamesn: adjourned
18:01:49 <jcraig> rrsagent, make minutes
18:01:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/01-aria-minutes.html jcraig
18:01:56 <jcraig> zakim, please part
18:01:56 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been jamesn, Joanmarie_Diggs, jcraig, sarah_higley, MarkMcCarthy, harris
18:01:56 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria
18:01:59 <jcraig> rrsagent, make minutes
18:01:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/01-aria-minutes.html jcraig
18:02:35 <jcraig> present+ WilliamT
18:02:42 <jcraig> present+ BryanG
18:03:30 <jcraig> rrsagent, make minutes
18:03:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/01-aria-minutes.html jcraig
18:05:02 <jcraig> s/to assign Neil Soiffer/to assign #940 to Neil Soiffer/
18:05:06 <jcraig> rrsagent, make minutes
18:05:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/01-aria-minutes.html jcraig
18:08:54 <jcraig> s/to assign #940 to Neil Soiffer/to assign #1505 to Neil Soiffer/
18:08:58 <jcraig> rrsagent, make minutes
18:08:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/01-aria-minutes.html jcraig