14:59:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-curricula
14:59:42 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/06/29-wai-curricula-irc
14:59:51 <Daniel_> rrsagent, start meeting
14:59:51 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'start meeting', Daniel_.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:00:14 <Daniel_> zakim, start meeting
15:00:14 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:00:15 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Daniel_
15:00:42 <Daniel_> Meeting: WAI Curricula Task Force Teleconference
15:00:45 <Daniel_> Chair: Daniel
15:01:33 <sloandr> sloandr has joined #wai-curricula
15:03:20 <Daniel_> zakim, take up next
15:03:20 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Setting up meeting, choosing scribe https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/WAI_Curricula/WAI_Curricula_Task_Force_Meetings#Scribe_Rotation_List -- taken up [from Daniel_]
15:03:38 <CarlosD> CarlosD has joined #wai-curricula
15:03:43 <shadi> scribe: shadi
15:03:46 <CarlosD> present+
15:03:54 <shadi> present+
15:04:17 <Daniel_> zakim, close item 1
15:04:17 <Zakim> agendum 1, Setting up meeting, choosing scribe https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/WAI_Curricula/WAI_Curricula_Task_Force_Meetings#Scribe_Rotation_List, closed
15:04:20 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:04:20 <Zakim> 2. Work on Covering Different Menu Types and Behaviors https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/navigation/#topic-menu-behaviors-and-patterns [from Daniel_]
15:04:21 <Daniel_> zakim, take up next
15:04:21 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Work on Covering Different Menu Types and Behaviors https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/navigation/#topic-menu-behaviors-and-patterns -- taken
15:04:25 <Zakim> ... up [from Daniel_]
15:04:29 <sloandr> present+
15:04:31 <Howard> Howard has joined #wai-curricula
15:04:33 <DonalR> DonalR has joined #wai-curricula
15:04:37 <Howard> present+ Howard
15:05:06 <DonalR> present+ Donal
15:05:23 <shadi> DM: Navigation module, topic on Menu Behaivors and Patterns
15:05:31 <shadi> ...comment was not clear enough
15:05:52 <shadi> ...added guidance on styling and resize
15:06:03 <shadi> ...several other improvements
15:06:13 <shadi> ...anything missing in your view?
15:08:30 <shadi> DS: module is on navigational menus
15:08:37 <shadi> ...but also covers application menus
15:08:48 <shadi> ...might be more for interaction module
15:09:03 <shadi> DM: yes, going back and forth on this
15:10:05 <shadi> DS: maybe not an issue, just struck me
15:11:19 <shadi> SAZ: so how will application menus be handled?
15:11:31 <shadi> DM: focus here is on navigational menus
15:11:49 <shadi> ...then discuss application menus later on in interaction module
15:12:07 <shadi> CD: could make explicit the different dimensions here
15:12:29 <shadi> ...static vs fly-out navigation
15:12:43 <shadi> ...maybe needs explicit distinguishing
15:12:52 <shadi> ...menus based on their purpose
15:13:00 <shadi> ...and based on their behavior
15:13:57 <shadi> CD: so application menus in interaction
15:14:31 <shadi> DM: so hearing that application menus should not be here
15:14:44 <shadi> ...but make it more clear the different types of menus
15:14:50 <shadi> ...and purpose of these
15:14:57 <shadi> DR: I support that
15:15:20 <Daniel_> https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/interaction-and-feedback/
15:15:33 <shadi> DM: not very sure how it fits in interaction and menus
15:15:39 <shadi> ...already a lot there
15:17:34 <shadi> SAZ: wonder if menus explained well in the Navigation module
15:17:43 <shadi> ...especially styling, behavior, and such
15:18:08 <shadi> ...then application menus can be inline in the topics in Interaction module
15:18:23 <shadi> ...might not need a specific topic on application modules
15:18:44 <shadi> CD: recall we discussed a module on widgets
15:18:51 <shadi> ...if so, then it fits in there
15:19:02 <shadi> ...otherwise support idea from Shadi
15:19:21 <shadi> DM: think we concluded against a module on widget
15:21:57 <shadi> SAZ: think module on widgets would get repetitive
15:22:13 <shadi> ...maybe add examples in Ideas for Teaching
15:22:35 <shadi> ...and also reflect at the top of the module, to make it easier to see what is covered
15:23:05 <shadi> s/maybe add examples in Ideas for Teaching/maybe add examples in Ideas for Teaching in Interaction module
15:23:21 <shadi> zakim, take up next
15:23:21 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Extended Error Coverage https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/interaction-and-feedback/#topic-errors-and-notifications -- taken up [from
15:23:25 <Zakim> ... Daniel_]
15:25:22 <shadi> DM: added more on error messages and suggestions
15:25:31 <shadi> ...now a little more spread-out
15:25:49 <shadi> ...the different types of notifications and messages
15:26:07 <shadi> ...still missing inline messages and notifications
15:26:26 <shadi> ...like messages appearing while you type an email telling you it's wrong
15:26:39 <shadi> ...apart from this, do you miss anything else?
15:29:01 <shadi> CD: messages that disappear after some time
15:29:13 <shadi> ...covered here but maybe not as directly and clearly
15:31:12 <shadi> SAZ: maybe small tweak to sharpen the wording
15:31:21 <shadi> ...but not get into specifc techniques
15:33:06 <shadi> DS: agree with comments so far
15:33:23 <shadi> ...maybe add examples of bad practice in Ideas for Teaching
15:33:36 <shadi> ...because examples are so powerful
15:33:49 <shadi> +1 to Dave
15:34:31 <shadi> ...can also be applied to other modules
15:34:42 <shadi> ...but especially here in error management
15:34:53 <shadi> ...because so many different ways of doing it
15:35:50 <shadi> CD: agree with Dave, examples can be very illustrative here
15:36:19 <shadi> ...wonder about messages that rely on a single mode
15:37:02 <shadi> ...might also need to talk about conveying messages programtically
15:37:14 <shadi> DM: could add some of the cross-references here
15:37:25 <shadi> ...like to not relying on color alone and such
15:37:33 <shadi> ...will do that here as well, as a reminder
15:38:05 <shadi> ...will also look at the programatic approach and cross-reference to developer role here
15:38:28 <shadi> zakim, take up next
15:38:28 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Design-Related Competencies -- taken up [from Daniel_]
15:38:48 <Daniel_> -> https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/flexible-layout-and-design/#competencies Module 1 Competencies
15:38:48 <Daniel_> -> https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/navigation/#competencies Module 2 Competencies
15:38:48 <Daniel_> -> https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/information-design/#competencies Module 3 Competencies
15:38:49 <Daniel_> -> https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/images-and-graphics/#competencies Module 4 Competencies
15:38:49 <Daniel_> -> https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/multimedia-and-animations/#competencies Module 5 Competencies
15:38:49 <Daniel_> -> https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/interaction-and-feedback/#competencies Module 61 Competencies
15:39:36 <shadi> DM: compentencies sections describe requirements for students and instructors
15:40:15 <shadi> ...want to focus on "In-depth knowledge of" part for the Instructors
15:41:25 <shadi> ...thoughts about this approach?
15:41:36 <shadi> ...or on other parts of these sections
15:45:58 <shadi> SAZ: missing user aspect
15:47:17 <shadi> ...maybe too indirect under "prerequisets for students"?
15:48:10 <shadi> CD: thinking of two more competencies for instructors
15:48:17 <shadi> ...prototyping and coding
15:48:26 <shadi> ...think needed for this content
15:48:54 <shadi> ...to be able to convey issues to developers
15:49:26 <shadi> DM: maybe not for all modules?
15:49:29 <shadi> CD: agree
15:49:47 <shadi> SAZ: isn't that part of designer skills in any case?
15:49:50 <shadi> DC: should be
15:50:00 <shadi> DM: will look at that
15:50:08 <shadi> ...what do others think?
15:50:24 <shadi> DS: competencies section is very helpful
15:52:10 <shadi> ...why not include business benefits?
15:52:28 <shadi> DM: had same approach in developer modules
15:52:55 <shadi> ...thought that business case is not always core to teaching developing techniques
15:53:05 <shadi> ...for consistency same approach here
15:55:17 <shadi> DS: think may need to be different for designers
15:56:38 <shadi> SAZ: is it because designers are often less supportive of accessibility
15:56:52 <shadi> ...or because they need to explain it more often than developers?
15:57:06 <shadi> DS: good question, I think both
15:58:05 <shadi> SAZ: interesting observation
15:58:19 <shadi> ...I often feel developers are more resitant to adding code
15:58:34 <shadi> ...but maybe designers in WAI circles are different
15:58:48 <shadi> DS: designers often earlier in the process
16:00:06 <shadi> DM: maybe sometimes design perceived as art
16:00:15 <shadi> ...so more resistance to changing
16:01:26 <shadi> CD: see Dave's point
16:01:39 <shadi> ...but not really sure required for this module
16:01:51 <shadi> ...but it may be a competency designers should have
16:01:55 <shadi> ...so on the fence here
16:02:11 <shadi> Topic: Next Steps
16:02:57 <shadi> DM: will be opening survey in the next week or two
16:03:01 <shadi> ...extensive review
16:03:11 <shadi> ...so really deep review
16:03:17 <shadi> ...please take the time for that
16:03:25 <shadi> ...a little behind schedule
16:03:36 <shadi> ...but hopefully now more polished
16:03:41 <shadi> ...thank you all!
16:05:02 <Daniel_> Zakim, end meeting
16:05:02 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been CarlosD, shadi, sloandr, Howard, Donal
16:05:04 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:05:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/29-wai-curricula-minutes.html Zakim
16:05:07 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Daniel_; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
16:05:11 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wai-curricula