IRC log of pointerevents on 2021-06-23
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:01:14 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #pointerevents
- 15:01:14 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/06/23-pointerevents-irc
- 15:01:38 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Meeting: PEWG
- 15:01:46 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
- 15:02:22 [flackr]
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- 15:02:25 [flackr]
- present+
- 15:02:40 [smaug]
- present+
- 15:02:49 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/9718517d-0e08-4377-bb7c-07332948233b/20210623T110000
- 15:03:00 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Scribe: Patrick H. Lauke
- 15:03:32 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- TOPIC: Review 'Expand explanation for non-coalesced events' https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/379 (in particular, use of "measurable" in the definition)
- 15:07:02 [mustaq]
- present+
- 15:08:49 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: [explains the conundrum we had with continuous/discrete / measurable/countable, etc]
- 15:09:30 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: concern about including/listing UI-Events ... are there more properties?
- 15:09:53 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: reason why i didn't want to list all properties, what if things change or other specs add more properties
- 15:10:05 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: think PR is quite close though
- 15:10:21 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: will see if there are suggestions to make on this
- 15:11:34 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Mustaq: would also remove shiftkey/altkey/metakey as they don't fire pointer events at all
- 15:12:15 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- present+ mustaq
- 15:14:54 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: maybe we can even give the example about button not being continuous as the value just changes, you don't get the "in-between" values
- 15:16:17 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: might be getting too deep into weeds of buttons which is not even our spec
- 15:16:39 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- ACTION: review this PR for next meeting and suggest changes by then
- 15:17:12 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- TOPIC: Review 'task queue is not reliable HTML concept. Use event loop instead' https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/386
- 15:17:56 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- PLH: we are getting better at referencing, but other specs can tell when WE do bad referencing. task queue not reliable concept, so should use event loop
- 15:19:03 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: defer to other people who are more knowledgeable
- 15:19:21 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: it's ... ok
- 15:19:57 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: technically you put a task into the queue...
- 15:20:08 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Mustaq: the spec does handwave saying that "queue is not a queue"
- 15:20:38 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- PLH: we rely on DOM to fire event, so we don't have to say anything about when/how to fire
- 15:21:01 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: so we happy to merge this?
- 15:21:15 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- [no concerns]
- 15:21:49 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- ACTION: merge and close
- 15:22:09 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- TOPIC: Review 'Simplify/clarify coalesced and predicted events' https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/377
- 15:26:11 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: I should have more time soon, so can look at this for next meeting
- 15:26:53 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: if anybody else also has any ideas, jump in. the PR is mostly ok, the last sticking point was the need to go into the targeting/retargeting (my PR was a bit too brutal in removing it altogether)
- 15:27:13 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- ACTION: Rob to review this PR and add suggested wording for the targeting issue
- 15:27:54 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- TOPIC: Unclear note about PointerEvent initialization of attributes to reflect coalesced events https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/374
- 15:29:30 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: high-level purpose here is that developers don't need to care about the individual (non-coalesced) events, but just look at the fired events
- 15:31:06 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: but is this going into the weeds of sometihng we don't want to define/that they shouldn't care?
- 15:31:28 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: this is just to reinforce/give an example
- 15:31:52 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: implementation shouldn't need to do this, but this is only an example
- 15:33:01 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: any value in me having a stab at generalising this, without having to give a specific example?
- 15:34:50 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: movement is a good example though - it's a delta from the last change
- 15:35:19 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Mustaq: we could say this without mentioning pointerlock
- 15:35:29 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: yes this is true even without pointerlock
- 15:36:06 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: I might give a try proposing a slightly more generalised wording, without mentioning pointerlock, that achieves same
- 15:36:21 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- ACTION: Patrick to propose more generalised wording for the note
- 15:36:39 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- TOPIC: The behavior of getCoalescedEvent in pointerevent_constructor.html is inconsistent with the spec https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/229
- 15:37:50 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: is this going to be resolved by the work Rob is going to do on the PR?
- 15:38:10 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: we were going to say this is true for trusted events
- 15:38:25 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: will review this and the other related issues
- 15:38:52 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- "This API always returns at least one coalesced event for pointermove events and an empty list for other types of PointerEvents." https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/224
- 15:38:59 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- How is pointer event ctor supposed to work when coalescedEvents is passed using the PointerEventInit https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/223
- 15:39:08 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: I can try to write some PR
- 15:39:22 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- ACTION: Olli to review/propose PRs for these
- 15:40:00 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- TOPIC: HTML monkeypatching: initiate the drag-and-drop operation definition https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/384 and HTML monkeypatching: animation frame callbacks https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/385
- 15:41:21 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: Starting with the drag and drop one #384
- 15:41:41 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: we should do this, but think it's still not possible to write platform test for d'n'd. at least wasn't last time
- 15:42:17 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- PLH: you agree we should add the spec the requirement to fire pointercancel etc?
- 15:42:21 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: that or add a hook
- 15:42:34 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- PLH: they declined to add a hook. asked for it to be exported
- 15:42:58 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- PLH: should i make a stab at this?
- 15:43:09 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: i don't have time for this right now
- 15:43:14 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Mustaq: I can take a look
- 15:44:12 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: you're it mustaq, assigned you. next up animation frame monkeypatching
- 15:44:56 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: ... it's about scheduling of tasks, and that's not defined anywhere. HTML spec lets you schedule tasks any way you want. maybe we should clarify somehow in PE spec, not sure how
- 15:45:18 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- PLH: domenic suggested adding a new function to fire pointer event
- 15:45:27 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: it's not even about pointer events...
- 15:45:50 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: it also doesn't have any well defined time WHEN you want to fire, you may want to do it before or after, depending on performance etc
- 15:45:58 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: implementations will likely change over time
- 15:46:17 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: we could say it should happen at some point between two points - producing a frame
- 15:46:46 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: even that could be not true / browser may choose to paint more and listen to events less, depending on priority. would prefer having plenty of flexibility
- 15:48:05 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: i think it's a "soft" *may* we use in that sentence in the spec
- 15:48:13 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- https://w3c.github.io/pointerevents/#the-pointermove-event
- 15:48:59 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: only thing we can guarantee is that events will be dispatched in order
- 15:49:10 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- we would flush coalesced events before next fired event
- 15:50:13 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- PLH: we could remove the sentence altogether as we already say things in the specific coalesced events section
- 15:51:04 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- PLH: suggest either removing the sentence, or moving it to the section for coalesced. and we don't mention animation callbacks
- 15:53:40 [mustaq]
- https://w3c.github.io/pointerevents/#the-pointerrawupdate-event
- 15:53:44 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Mustaq: there's also mention of animation (without link) in the pointerraw
- 15:54:20 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: could we just change "which might be aligned to animation callbacks" to "which might be delayed"
- 15:54:32 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: we just need to say that raw events will not be delayed
- 15:55:09 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- ACTION: Patrick to write PR that removes the referenced animation frame callback sentence altogether and removes mention in pointerraw
- 15:56:49 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: thank you all, see you in two weeks' time
- 15:57:08 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- rrsagent, set logs world-visible
- 15:57:19 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- rrsagent, create minutes
- 15:57:19 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/23-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
- 16:00:48 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- hmm...seems to take a long time to generate these minutes. is the functionality working?
- 16:03:21 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- rrsagent, create minutes
- 16:03:21 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/23-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
- 16:04:45 [plh]
- plh has joined #pointerevents
- 16:04:50 [plh]
- rrsagent, generate minutes v2
- 16:04:50 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/23-pointerevents-minutes.html plh
- 16:05:26 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- plh, seems to be stuck...
- 16:05:55 [plh]
- indeed. probably related to our ongoing cloud issue :(
- 16:06:19 [plh]
- it will show up at some point, no worries. let me know if you need them asap
- 16:06:21 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- yeah was thinking that. ok, i'll do a rough and ready manual minutes thing and email it
- 16:06:42 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- with link to that url which hopefully will work eventually :)
- 16:06:48 [plh]
- ok
- 16:13:05 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- rrsagent, bye
- 16:13:05 [RRSAgent]
- I see 6 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2021/06/23-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
- 16:13:05 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: review this PR for next meeting and suggest changes by then [1]
- 16:13:05 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/06/23-pointerevents-irc#T15-16-39
- 16:13:05 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: merge and close [2]
- 16:13:05 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/06/23-pointerevents-irc#T15-21-49
- 16:13:05 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Rob to review this PR and add suggested wording for the targeting issue [3]
- 16:13:05 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/06/23-pointerevents-irc#T15-27-13
- 16:13:05 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Patrick to propose more generalised wording for the note [4]
- 16:13:05 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/06/23-pointerevents-irc#T15-36-21
- 16:13:05 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Olli to review/propose PRs for these [5]
- 16:13:05 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/06/23-pointerevents-irc#T15-39-22
- 16:13:05 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Patrick to write PR that removes the referenced animation frame callback sentence altogether and removes mention in pointerraw [6]
- 16:13:05 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/06/23-pointerevents-irc#T15-55-09