17:44:44 RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg 17:44:44 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/06/22-aria-apg-irc 17:45:20 MEETING: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force 17:45:26 present+ 17:45:32 rrsagent, make log public 17:45:40 rrsagent, make minutes 17:45:40 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/22-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King 17:52:20 present+ 17:57:38 isaacdurazo has joined #aria-apg 17:58:16 agenda+ setup and review agenda 17:58:47 agenda+ html range slider example 17:59:09 agenda+ jump-to short key 17:59:21 s/short key/shortcut key 17:59:23 rrsagent, make minutes 17:59:23 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/22-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King 17:59:44 agenda+ review of accordion widget 17:59:52 agenda+ rating radios 18:00:08 jongund has joined #aria-apg 18:00:14 agenda+ tree example: aria-selected 18:00:29 agenda+ tooltip design draft 18:00:58 shair: Jemma 18:01:13 CHAIR: Jemma 18:03:23 scribe: matt_king 18:04:30 s/fix/fixed 18:04:48 s/fix/fixed/ 18:05:10 Rich_Noah has joined #aria-apg 18:05:33 MarkMcCarthy has joined #aria-apg 18:05:38 present+ 18:06:14 present+ 18:06:28 present+ 18:08:33 zakim, next item 18:08:33 agendum 1 -- setup and review agenda -- taken up [from Jemma] 18:09:36 siri has joined #aria-apg 18:09:57 no meeting on the first two weeks of July? 18:12:21 CurtBellew has joined #aria-apg 18:12:32 present+ 18:12:43 No meeting july 6 18:12:54 Discussion of July 13 18:13:18 Jon: probably should not take 2 weeks off in a row; last work in backlog. 18:14:07 Update on redesign project. 18:14:19 Isaac: still welcoming feedback on wireframes. 18:14:38 this week started how to use template provided by E&O WG. 18:14:57 Working on how to fit current content into that template. 18:15:12 The current wireframe proposal is early rough draft. 18:15:30 Remember that this is going to be iterative. 18:17:02 mk: where publish content in e&o template? 18:17:12 gh-pages? 18:17:59 Jes: we could leverage existing netlify 18:18:38 zakim, next topic 18:18:38 I don't understand 'next topic', Matt_King 18:18:41 zakim, next item 18:18:41 agendum 2 -- html range slider example -- taken up [from Jemma] 18:19:01 scribe: isaacdurazo 18:19:06 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1757 18:19:35 Matt_King: not sure if these are resolved issues 18:19:42 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1757#issuecomment-866205957 18:19:43 jon: just did an update 18:19:54 jon: think we are good 18:19:57 "I changed the example to use the change and pointermove events and it is working on iOS and Android." 18:20:01 Matt_King: ok good. so we are using two events 18:20:42 Matt_King: so browser does support touch? dragging with touch? 18:21:07 jongund: it triggers event if you move pointer move event 18:21:28 Matt_King: ok so it means pointer is moved by VO. Correct? 18:21:37 jongund: seems to be working, yes 18:21:57 Matt_King: ok cool. sounds like pretty solid 18:22:06 Matt_King: whos signed up for reviews? 18:22:27 Matt_King: gonna do functional review 18:22:33 with screen readers 18:22:58 Jemma: you are done? 18:23:05 siri: think i done but will do it again 18:23:22 Jemma: ok please check off list 18:23:33 Jemma: Jes is possible to do code review? 18:24:05 zakim, next item 18:24:05 agendum 3 -- jump-to short key -- taken up [from Jemma] 18:24:30 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1923#issuecomment-861760938 18:24:50 Matt_King: jon made comment on some keyboards. 18:24:51 " 18:24:51 Scripting the option+0 key for macOS may cause internationalization issues, since the the keypress for option+0 generates some character other than zero. I account for this special character in the current script, but if someone is not using English keyboard it could generate another character may not not work for them." by Jon 18:25:20 jongund: it works now in nelgish keyboards but will be fragile. if someone has a different keyboard. 18:25:32 jongund: something to be aware of. Maybe not a big deal? 18:26:09 Matt_King: are there any ways to make this more robust? Rich, Jes? 18:26:30 Rich_Noah: nothing really pups up 18:26:53 jongund: with key you will get a character.... idk 18:27:05 s/pups/pops/ 18:27:17 Matt_King: james, do you know any people that might have potential input on this topic? 18:27:24 jamesn: not off hand 18:27:33 Matt_King: everybody, is this a concern? 18:27:53 Matt_King: think we should merge... not sure if we should have an issue? 18:27:58 Jemma: thinking possible to add a note 18:28:04 Matt_King: this is part of the design 18:28:14 jongund: just merge it and see if people notices 18:28:21 Matt_King: we might run into this again 18:28:54 agenda? 18:28:56 Matt_King: isaac and jess this is something to keep in mind 18:29:20 zakim, next item 18:29:20 agendum 4 -- review of accordion widget -- taken up [from Jemma] 18:29:24 Matt_King: ok just wanted to double check on thah concerns and make sure there are no red flags 18:29:45 Jemma: skipping next meeting agenda 18:30:01 zakim, next item 18:30:01 agendum 4 was just opened, Jemma 18:30:03 Matt_King: yah lets skip it and get time to talk about bryans work on tooltip 18:30:27 zakim, take up item 4 18:30:27 agendum 4 -- review of accordion widget -- taken up [from Jemma] 18:30:37 zakim, take up item 5 18:30:37 agendum 5 -- rating radios -- taken up [from Jemma] 18:30:54 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1870 18:31:17 Matt_King: question about multiple radio groups examples 18:31:32 Matt_King: my concern is we have a radio group example (pizza example) 18:31:34 rating radio example is https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/radio-rating/examples/radio/radio-rating.html 18:31:52 Matt_King: then we'll also have this other radio group example (rating one) 18:32:24 Matt_King: this example allows to write about ratings vs ratings sliding and both perform similar but differences and pros and cons 18:32:46 Matt_King: my question is: idk we need to have a. unch of rating group examples 18:32:56 Matt_King: question of maybe too many examples 18:33:21 Matt_King: we should probably cconsider removing the pizza radio group and replacing with ratings rating group 18:33:32 Matt_King: jon, maybe you have some input on that 18:33:49 jongund: think original rating group example contrasting aria example and look like radio groups 18:33:51 https://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/examples/radio/radio.html 18:33:58 Radio Group Example Using Roving tabindex 18:34:00 jongund: visually look different 18:34:14 jongund: useful to have contrast 18:34:40 https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/radio-rating/examples/radio/radio-rating.html 18:34:49 jongund: i think the two pizzas one look the same but one uses active decendent and the other one... 18:34:53 we are talking these two examples 18:35:02 jongund: rating too different 18:35:20 jongund: people might struggle connecting between pizza example and rating example 18:35:29 jongund: underneath they are different 18:35:39 jongund: dont think we hurt anybody if we keep them on 18:35:59 jongund: simpler pizza example might be easier to look at the code 18:36:22 Jemma: jon and matt i think i missed third example 18:36:40 Jemma: so we decide to keep these? 18:36:44 +1 Jon 18:36:55 Matt_King: we'll three radio group examples 18:37:02 Jemma: ok 18:37:07 Radio Group Example Using Roving tabindex 18:37:07 Radio Group Example Using aria-activedescendant 18:37:09 Jemma: everyone agrees? 18:37:23 agena? 18:37:28 agenda? 18:37:29 Matt_King: lets make sure we have enough people looking at this 18:37:50 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1870 18:38:00 jongund: I'll test on android and ios 18:38:10 siri: I'll do windows 18:38:20 jongund: can do mac os too 18:38:33 Matt_King: we should also have other people look at it 18:38:55 siri: oi can do windows and other kind of phone 18:39:21 Matt_King: I'm really curious about visual design review 18:40:52 Jemma: we might need to recruit people for visual design review 18:41:33 Jemma: please if anyone can recommend reviewers it would be appreciated 18:41:45 zakim, next item 18:41:45 agendum 4 -- review of accordion widget -- taken up [from Jemma] 18:42:08 zakim, close item 4 18:42:08 agendum 4, review of accordion widget, closed 18:42:09 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:42:09 6. tree example: aria-selected [from Jemma] 18:42:14 zakim, take up item 6 18:42:14 agendum 6 -- tree example: aria-selected -- taken up [from Jemma] 18:42:53 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1680 18:43:07 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1869 18:43:39 The ARIA 1.1 spec for treeitem requires aria-selected https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#treeitem. 18:43:52 Matt_King: question about the issue more than PR. It says ARIA selected is required... wondering if people agree with the ARIA spec is requiring 18:44:36 Matt_King: tree example work without ARIA selecting but not performing an action 18:44:40 dont think we want to use selected 18:44:44 because we use current 18:44:57 MarkMcCarthy: if spec says we need to use selected... maybe we have a spec issue? 18:45:04 Jemma: James any comments about this? 18:45:17 jamesn: gonna have to research the issue and take a look 18:45:23 Jemma: would you leave a comment on the issue? 18:45:46 jamesn: how do you find that info? 18:45:52 jamesn: just lookng at the spec 18:46:15 jamesn: so also looking at latest editor draft? 18:46:17 jamesn: yes 18:46:32 s/MarkMcCarthy: if spec says we need to use selected... maybe we have a spec issue?/Matt_King: if spec says we need to use selected... maybe we have a spec issue? 18:46:34 jamesn: this is the whole aria selected stuff we went through. 18:46:50 Matt_King: this is a new language 18:46:56 jongund: aria 1.2 says is required 18:47:02 jamesn: yah it could be a bug 18:47:23 Matt_King: this is tricky for me. this will be apg 1.2 to support aria 1.2 spec 18:48:10 jamesn: in futurte we'll move to non version of apg 18:48:16 Matt_King: right 18:48:29 Matt_King: maybe we should add a note to the documentation 18:49:03 jamesn: what others things take aria seleected? 18:49:12 Matt_King: we put same language in option as well 18:49:19 Matt_King: dont remember anywhere else 18:49:55 jongund: tree item also has 18:50:13 Matt_King: gonna make a comment to this issue about the change comming to ARIA 18:50:56 Matt_King: the other tree example, the file tree one. Wondering if that one should be using selected 18:51:09 Matt_King: we could say is up to the browser to weather or not selected it 18:51:17 Matt_King: not really suer 18:52:04 Bryan: i think for a single select dont why would be necesary 18:52:17 only thing is that as behavioral thing when you have aria selected... 18:52:22 only then an element becomes exposed 18:52:30 Matt_King: oh on reading mode? 18:52:36 bryan: yes 18:52:46 Matt_King: ok true... maybe in file tree view 18:52:48 s/suer/sure 18:52:55 https://w3c.github.io/aria/#treeitem 18:53:30 Matt_King: would you advocate for aria asertion? and required they should do? 18:53:41 Matt_King: doesnt have to be in the spec. strictly AT behaviour 18:54:21 Matt_King: this probably should be in the scope for this issue 18:54:34 Jemma: action item is for you matt to add a comment 18:54:38 Matt 18:54:47 ok I'll still be adding the same question 18:55:03 Matt_King: want to make sure question is clear 18:55:40 Matt_King: thanks Bryan for your work on tooltip. Are you able to join the call next week? 18:55:46 Bryan: yes I will 18:56:21 rrsagent, make minutes 18:56:21 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/22-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King 21:17:25 zakim, close agenda item 4 21:17:25 I don't understand 'close agenda item 4', Jemma