IRC log of coga on 2021-06-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:09:32 [RRSAgent]
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13:09:32 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/06/17-coga-irc
13:09:34 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:09:34 [Zakim]
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13:09:36 [trackbot]
Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:09:36 [trackbot]
Date: 17 June 2021
13:19:48 [LisaSeemanKest]
agenda+ actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage#Actions
13:20:03 [LisaSeemanKest]
agenda+ https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Actions_Requests
13:21:05 [LisaSeemanKest]
agenda+ looking at https://w3c.github.io/apa/xaur/ and our issue https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/183
13:21:27 [LisaSeemanKest]
agenda+ looking at https://w3c.github.io/apa/xaur/ and our issue https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/181
13:21:35 [LisaSeemanKest]
agenda+ looking at https://w3c.github.io/apa/xaur/ and our issue https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/183
13:22:25 [LisaSeemanKest]
agenda+ inclusive groups https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RbjN7fLaucSzVfTqQdoCHoX3GFEoyHz2iiz3ap9Yd6k/edit#
13:23:25 [LisaSeemanKest]
agenda+ wcag 3 comments at https://github.com/w3c/wcag/labels/COGA
13:46:35 [JohnRochford]
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13:49:07 [LisaSeemanKest_]
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13:49:12 [LisaSeemanKest_]
agenda
13:50:01 [Fazio]
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13:58:06 [JustineP]
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13:59:48 [LisaSeemanKest_]
agenda?
14:00:39 [JustineP]
present+
14:01:48 [Fazio]
present+
14:02:08 [LisaSeemanKest_]
regrets: John r, John k, kriss anne, roy
14:02:14 [Jennie]
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14:02:21 [LisaSeemanKest_]
regrets: John r, John k, kriss anne, roy, alberts
14:02:25 [Jennie]
present+
14:03:18 [Fazio]
FYI, I reached out to mt University of California contacts at the MIND Institute and at the Tarjan Center. Theyre circulating our request for mental health professionals and research
14:03:21 [Joshue108]
present+
14:03:45 [cweidner]
cweidner has joined #COGA
14:03:49 [cweidner]
present+
14:04:04 [LisaSeemanKest_]
scribe: justine
14:04:21 [LisaSeemanKest_]
scribe: justinep
14:04:46 [LisaSeemanKest_]
zakim, next item
14:04:46 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage#Actions -- taken up [from LisaSeemanKest]
14:06:44 [JustineP]
Lisa: Mental health subgroup, assign one paper per person to be completed approximately end of July
14:06:53 [EA]
EA has joined #coga
14:08:04 [JustineP]
...Inclusive working group - consensus seems to be achieved. Will discuss today if possible.
14:08:54 [JustineP]
EA: Silver/clear words meeting has not been arranged yet.
14:09:05 [JustineP]
Lisa: Will assign Rain an action of scheduling a meeting.
14:09:11 [JustineP]
EA: That's already happening.
14:10:22 [LisaSeemanKest_]
Q?
14:10:22 [JustineP]
Jennie: Technical description - put historical information from findable help (2016 to present) into Google doc and updated wiki
14:11:05 [LisaSeemanKest_]
zakim, next item
14:11:05 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Actions_Requests -- taken up [from LisaSeemanKest]
14:11:36 [JustineP]
Lisa: Review EO video scripts - Did anyone manage to review?
14:12:08 [JustineP]
...I scanned quickly and didn't seem to involve us very much.
14:13:04 [Rachael]
I agree that the current script topics for the videos do not seem COGA related
14:13:05 [JustineP]
...I added pronunciation to our tasks but I don't think we've submitted feedback.
14:13:58 [JustineP]
Rachael: accessible authentication - Alastair sent updated link
14:14:31 [JustineP]
...comment period closed for WCAG 2.2. We are looking to return comments on accessible authentication within the next few weeks.
14:14:42 [JustineP]
Lisa: We don't have a clear deadline?
14:15:14 [JustineP]
Rachael: About two weeks. We are moving toward final stages of publication and it will take several weeks after COGA's review to wrap up.
14:15:34 [LisaSeemanKest_]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/labels/COGA
14:16:05 [Jennie]
q+
14:16:11 [JustineP]
Lisa: We have 6 comments in Github that are tagged for COGA. Some are related to accessible authentication.
14:16:38 [Rachael]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag/labels/COGA
14:16:42 [LisaSeemanKest_]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/labels/COGA
14:17:23 [JustineP]
Jennie: I believe John R was working on accessible authentication.
14:17:34 [Jennie]
ack Jennie
14:17:41 [JustineP]
Rachael: Will see who was working on visible controls.
14:18:14 [Rachael]
David McDonald was helping us iwth Visible Controls
14:18:19 [JustineP]
Lisa: Does anyone want to sign up to review either one of issues or more?
14:18:34 [JustineP]
Rachael: I will take visible control issues.
14:18:47 [Rachael]
q+
14:19:18 [JustineP]
EA: Was Steve looking at accessible authentication along with Abi?
14:20:02 [JustineP]
...If you have dyslexia, why can't you open and see what you've entered? That was one of our concerns.
14:20:04 [Rachael]
q-
14:20:45 [LisaSeemanKest_]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag/labels/COGA
14:20:47 [JustineP]
Lisa: Another issue also discussed showing password to end users.
14:20:58 [EA]
John Rochford seems to be on the list
14:21:12 [JustineP]
...would it be easier to send to COGA via email?
14:22:20 [JustineP]
Lisa: If you scroll down in Phil's issue, we can add comments which will be sent to AG.
14:23:05 [JustineP]
...Does anyone else have time to comment on issue list?
14:23:08 [Rachael]
q+
14:24:15 [JustineP]
Rachael: Visible controls - can come up with suggestions and discuss during next COGA meeting prior to entering comment.
14:24:34 [Jennie]
+1 to Rachael's suggestion - it will simplify things a lot
14:24:47 [JustineP]
...Will add the 6 issues for discussion during an upcoming meeting.
14:24:58 [JustineP]
<last was Lisa>
14:25:16 [JustineP]
EA: I submitted one comment on authentication just now.
14:25:50 [LisaSeemanKest_]
Q?
14:25:57 [JustineP]
Lisa: Any questions before we move on?
14:25:57 [LisaSeemanKest_]
ack r
14:26:15 [LisaSeemanKest_]
next item
14:26:37 [LisaSeemanKest_]
https://w3c.github.io/apa/xaur/
14:26:48 [JustineP]
...Josh is here from APA XR subgroup regarding user requirements
14:28:28 [LisaSeemanKest_]
https://w3c.github.io/apa/xaur/#immersive-semantics-and-customization
14:29:06 [JustineP]
...This is a list of user requirements and user needs. It has user needs followed by requirements (in terms of document structure).
14:29:24 [LisaSeemanKest_]
Q?
14:29:55 [LisaSeemanKest_]
agendum 3 -- looking at https://w3c.github.io/apa/xaur/ and our issue https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/183 -- taken up
14:30:50 [JustineP]
Josh: We have been working on this document for 3 years and have many user needs and requirements covered, some related to COGA. We need science-related examples that demonstrate specific user needs in immersive/augmented reality.
14:31:46 [Jennie]
*I can scribe Justine
14:31:50 [Jennie]
scribe: Jennie
14:32:08 [Jennie]
Joh: This contains a lot of really good information about affordences and different modailities
14:32:22 [Jennie]
Josh: We may have enough even in that to back up our research
14:32:39 [Jennie]
...A lot of the heuristics, coming up with a best practice for this space, is out there
14:33:00 [Jennie]
Lisa: The document you are talking about is Making Content Usable?
14:33:02 [Jennie]
Josh: yes
14:33:07 [Jennie]
Lisa: It is a note now
14:33:18 [Jennie]
Josh: That's right, which means it is referenced in the document.
14:33:26 [Jennie]
...I can discuss the feedback with APA
14:33:41 [Jennie]
...The note - Content Usable, can then be used as the research
14:33:46 [Jennie]
Lisa: It all maps to user needs
14:33:49 [Jennie]
Josh: Exactly
14:33:55 [Jennie]
Lisa: It maps the patterns
14:34:00 [Jennie]
Josh: It is a really good document
14:34:27 [Jennie]
Lisa: We are trying to address your requests
14:34:30 [Joshue108]
q?
14:34:39 [JustineP]
scribe: JustineP
14:34:41 [Jennie]
*All yours Justine
14:35:04 [JustineP]
Lisa: Do you need more from us regarding pace/speed of environment?
14:35:52 [JustineP]
Josh: Even non-normative content is seen as definitive which is natural but we need to be able to back up our assertions.
14:36:16 [JustineP]
...Rain gave some good examples and indicated some text from Content Usable that can back up some of our claims.
14:36:42 [JustineP]
...I can pop in next week to follow up.
14:37:45 [JustineP]
David: We do have some research on mono vs. stereo sound. I need to dig up reference. Mono vs. stereo can disorient people with certain cognitive disabilities. We also have wayfinding guidance.
14:37:50 [Joshue108]
thanks David, can you add the mono reference stuff to this issue?
14:37:50 [Joshue108]
https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/180
14:38:03 [JustineP]
Lisa: You can always email to the thread or comment in Github once you find the information.
14:38:28 [JustineP]
...or email directly to Josh.
14:38:53 [JustineP]
Josh: I have enough information to move forward now.
14:39:11 [LisaSeemanKest_]
next item
14:39:18 [LisaSeemanKest_]
close item 4
14:39:26 [LisaSeemanKest_]
close item 5
14:39:39 [JustineP]
Josh: Any other questions?
14:39:46 [LisaSeemanKest_]
next item
14:40:33 [JustineP]
Lisa: We are working on a guidance document on how to work with COGA. It would be interesting to receive your feedback, Josh.
14:41:00 [JustineP]
...getting on a call with us might be the best way to reach out.
14:41:16 [JustineP]
...Let's skip inclusive group document for now.
14:41:43 [LisaSeemanKest_]
tpoc: https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/1912
14:42:15 [JustineP]
...Do we want to agree with this issue? Let's take a moment to review.
14:42:41 [JustineP]
<Lisa reads feedback from Github issue>
14:43:29 [LisaSeemanKest_]
this really does help (but is not always enogh)
14:43:36 [JustineP]
...I'm inclined to agree but say that it might not always be enough. Thoughts?
14:43:49 [EA]
But what is enough? +1
14:44:03 [EA]
OK
14:44:17 [JustineP]
...clarifying that you can use a password manager, etc.
14:44:19 [JustineP]
+1
14:44:20 [Jennie]
q+
14:44:34 [LisaSeemanKest_]
ack j
14:44:56 [JustineP]
Jennie: I use a password tool that sometimes overlaps with icon that exposes the password text. Should we make sure that they don't overlap?
14:45:41 [LisaSeemanKest_]
coga feels: this really does help but is not always enough to use it . care should be taken that the eaybal icon is not hidden when using a password manager.
14:46:03 [JustineP]
Lisa: Thoughts on the above comment?
14:46:16 [LisaSeemanKest_]
+1
14:46:23 [cweidner]
+1
14:46:26 [JustineP]
+1
14:46:31 [Jennie]
+1
14:46:38 [JustineP]
Lisa: Should we validate this through the list?
14:46:42 [Jennie]
I agree, should validate through the lsit
14:46:52 [JustineP]
Agree that validating with the list is a good idea.
14:47:32 [JustineP]
Lisa: Will move forward as suggested then.
14:47:48 [LisaSeemanKest_]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/1902
14:49:02 [Jennie]
q+
14:49:12 [JustineP]
...I think I agree with the confusion.
14:49:58 [LisaSeemanKest_]
q+
14:50:00 [JustineP]
Jennie: Question for EA. We have the list of 100 most common words. If we look at symbol sets that are used for augmentative/alternative communication devices do we have a list of common objects that cross international boundaries?
14:50:43 [LisaSeemanKest_]
ack j
14:50:44 [JustineP]
EA: We discussed this in COGA a long time ago. Words that are most commonly used number between 100-500 but depends on the language. Some of us found that most common words don't always cross languages but we can probably focus on the commonly used words list.
14:51:01 [JustineP]
Lisa: I'm not sure if common objects is a good idea.
14:51:11 [JustineP]
EA: It isn't a great idea because it doesn't cross cultures.
14:51:20 [Rachael]
q+
14:52:11 [JustineP]
Lisa: For example, is an image a boy or man? It might be obvious to author but not to others. A car vs. bicycle is another example.
14:52:17 [Rachael]
The normative text (from the definition) is whether something "requires the user to remember, manipulate, or transcribe information", and this is requiring the manipulation of information.
14:52:31 [JustineP]
Rachael: Alastair provided the preceding comment in Github to the issue.
14:52:46 [Rachael]
q-
14:52:50 [JustineP]
...He suggested that we remove as a test (common objects).
14:53:34 [JustineP]
Lisa: We will suggest removing. <prepares response>
14:53:37 [LisaSeemanKest_]
coga suggest -common objects be rmoved , as it is oftwn hard to know what catigory it is in, and common, is not always common in diffrent culture
14:53:44 [EA]
+q
14:54:22 [JustineP]
EA: When including categories, it can be perceived as parts of speech. We should clarify.
14:54:24 [LisaSeemanKest_]
ack l
14:54:27 [LisaSeemanKest_]
ack ea
14:54:30 [LisaSeemanKest_]
coga suggest -common objects be removed , as it is often hard to know what it is in, and common, is not always common in diffrent culture
14:54:52 [JustineP]
EA: I agree.
14:55:27 [LisaSeemanKest_]
+1
14:55:53 [JustineP]
q+
14:55:59 [LisaSeemanKest_]
ack j
14:57:22 [LisaSeemanKest_]
this included r=the trafic lights in captue
14:57:36 [LisaSeemanKest_]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/1901
14:58:20 [JustineP]
Lisa: Remembering email/username are not cognitive tests...I don't think that's true.
14:58:54 [Jennie]
*dropping off but will join the Silver/Coga call after this in 2 minutes. Have a good week!
14:59:10 [Fazio]
might be
14:59:10 [JustineP]
EA: Are they tests of cognition rather than cognitive tests? These may be slightly different issues.
14:59:28 [Rachael]
q+
15:00:35 [Rachael]
q-
15:00:36 [JustineP]
Rachael: This is trying to say that they are allowed as tests for authentication. Wording in understanding doc might need to be clarified that they are acceptable cognitive tests.
15:00:59 [JustineP]
Lisa: Saying that they are acceptable because they can be copied/pasted from a notepad easily.
15:01:57 [LisaSeemanKest_]
Remembering your email, address, and name are tests of cognitive ability. In fact they are just the tipe of test in a MCI mini mental test. They may be alowed for authetification as they can be copy paisted from a not pad quite easily, or filled in automaticaly by a autocomplete
15:02:35 [JustineP]
+1
15:02:35 [Fazio]
+1
15:03:02 [EA]
+1
15:03:31 [JustineP]
zakim, make minutes
15:03:31 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'make minutes', JustineP
15:03:35 [JustineP]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:03:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/17-coga-minutes.html JustineP
15:05:50 [JustineP]
zakim, please part
15:05:50 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been JustineP, Fazio, Jennie, Joshue, cweidner
15:05:50 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #coga
15:05:57 [JustineP]
rrsagent, please part
15:05:57 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items