Meeting minutes
Community Video Project
<tzviya> https://
Tzviya: ^^ proposal sheet;
the idea is to do short videos
… we opened that sheet to the public
… we only got one suggestion from the community, on
encryption
… I'm not sure what that is intended to mean
… it was added anonymously
… if it's about DRM, it's probably out of scope for
talking about what W3C is working on
… if it's about LCP, it's also probably out of scope
for what we're working on
Dave: it's been a common
request for years: people want a way to share EPUBs with some
assurance that it will only be readable by the intended receiver
… e.g pre-publications
… there's no way to do it in EPUB itself; it has to be
done at the RS level
Liisa: we're planning
another BG conference day for June 22
… we've invited Laurent for EDRlab to give an update
on LCP
… and the status of Thorium
… we want to socialize a bit the idea of referring to
Thorium more in this conference day
Tzviya: we're thinking of ~5 minute videos
Ralph: All of those who
attended the AC meetings have seen the videos.
… Videos are pre-recorded. I have recommendations.
Speaker sends the video, and I can clean up a bit.
… I send them out to get captions, which are proofread
… I prefer that the speaker proofs in their own
language
… We have a tool that converts that into Transcript.
… We publish that on the Website.
… We prefer slides in HTML, using one of a few tools.
… If a presenter can't do that, we can work with PDF.
… It is woth brainstorming about who gives great
presentations that the Publishing Community might want to hear.
George: what is the tool for HTML slides?
Ralph: "shower" is what W3C currently uses
<ivan> Reveal slide tools
<Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to suggest AGWG
Tzviya: on who in the community might speak on topics of interest to the wider community, Jeanne Spellman comes to mind
<mateus> +1 to Jeanne
<wendyreid> +1 to Jeanne
Bill: are we thinking to
publish these at the same time and announce them at once or roll them
out over time?
… what are we thinking for the initial rollout?
Tzivya: I was thinking we'd
announce a bunch at one time, a week or two before a virtual f2f
… I find it annoying to release things over time
Avneesh: some more topics:
… EU Accessibility
<ivan> Shower presentation slide tool
Avneesh: Accessibility
Metadata
… Alignment of EPUB A11y with WCAG 2.2 and WCAG 3.0
… is it better than I provide a high-level overview of
these topics and then Cristina give a detailed presentation on the
EU A11y Act and someone else give a presentation on a11y metadata?
Tzviya: it might be better to combine into one slightly longer presentation
Avneesh: like a panel?
Liisa: a high-level overview
with a business focus and 1 or 2 with more technical depth would be
useful
… the high-level piece needs to get out there
… for senior management to be aware
… they don't care about metadata semantics or WCAG 2
vs 3, but they do need to know that this is a legal requirement that
is coming
Avneesh: there's also a
possible presentation on testing
… would a presentation on migration to HTML be of
interest to see what public feedback we might get?
Dave: great idea
… I'm not sure who would want to watch a video on
testing
… I think trying to deal with some of the big issues
and expressing the fact that there are complicated tradeoffs and not
an obvious path forward
<Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to comment on testing
Tzviya: please add your idea to the sheet
Ralph: a presentation on what the WG is doing to make the spec clear on conformance and to develop tests is valuable, doesn't need to be long or in-depth
<ivan> +1 to ralph
<liisamk__> +1 to ralph
<Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to Ralph
Ivan: and the work to reorganize the EPUB spec to be easier to use
<avneeshsingh> +1 Ivan
Ivan: even the editors' draft is much more readable now than the EPUB 3.1 or 3.2 specs
Dave: I'll think more about what would be a good things to try
Tzviya: what topics are important for the Japanese audience? what are we missing?
Daihei: thinking about it;
at the last PBG Asia/Japan/NA meeting there were more than 10
attendees from Japan
… the Japanese interest has expanded into a11y,
applied especially to digital video and digital library environments
… and applications of fixed layout to various
situations
… and the ability to read other formats, including PDF
and a series of JPEGs
… I'm thinking about various ideas and would like to
come back next week in email on the topics that are typical of the
Japanese market that we should talk about
… so people understand the Japanese digital video
situation
Tzviya: should we have any of these recorded in Japanese?
Daihei: it depends on the
speakers
… if captions in Japanese can be provided, that would
be really helpful
Ivan: I would love to hear
an overview of what you can do with FXL
… for many authors FXL is still magic and they don't
know what it can do and how to do it
… a presentation on what can be done and how would be
useful
… find someone who can do a really good video on that;
that would attract people
Liisa: something on a11y for
FXL would be helpful; that's come up as a concern in our meetings
… from what I hear the WG is getting there
… I can do something about FXL with pop-ups for kids,
a11y, and when not to use FXL
<Ralph> Liisa++
Liisa: we've been working on a decision tree: start with reflow and only go to FXL if you have certain things
Tzviya: we put you in for a mixed reflow/FXL demo, but feel free to change it to your preference
Liisa: I do want to do a demo; I think that would help
Wendy: Ken is listed to do
an FXL/A11Y update
… part of the work of the TF is to do some
experimental content to show what you can do
… any demo should be absolute about "we're going to
make this accessible"
… and Ken is the perfect person to do that
<Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to comment on language
Wendy: he makes really good FXL books
Ralph: we can certainly
discuss translation of captions as appropriate
… even if a presenter prefers to present in other than
English
Daihei: I'll include the
Japanese FXL business, will think about whether one slot or multiple
slots
… I will include this either way either by me or from
someone else in Japan
Tzviya: there's been a
change from Makoto on how CSS is represented
… should we have him or Fantasai present that?
<avneeshsingh> It is publishing CG task force
Dave: using the class attributes for the alternate stylesheets?
Tzviya: yes, though this may be too much detail for now
Dave: I don't think it needs involvement from other groups
Tzviya: let's pick dates for
the Q&A and work backwards
… I'll create a Doodle poll
<liisamk__> Sept for Q&A
Tzviya: but are we thinking July or August or September?
<Ralph> Sep
Wendy: July, maybe August
because for one of these; HTML serialization in EPUB, will help the
WG; September will be too late for that
… if we have to do that presentation in a different
context, we can find a way I'm sure
<ivan> either way :-)
Tzviya: lots of opinions
<avneeshsingh> August or september is better, looking at practical timelines.
<Daihei> +1 to Sep
Ralph: we don't know who will be using July and August for something approximating a vacation
<avneeshsingh> +1 to separate HTML presentation and do it early
Ivan: the HTML serialization is on the WG agenda in 2 weeks so we might not need it in July
Liisa: we might have dual events; some things to talk about in July and some for September
Tzviya: good idea; if we do
that then maybe later than September
… so let's target July 15
… we need 1 month lead time for the captioning and
translation
… if we reach out to the speakers now they'll have 6
weeks to prepare the content
… please add to the list by end of next week; 21 May
ISO JTC 1 SC 34 / JWG 7
Tzviya: just getting this on
our radars
… several are unsure about the steps
George: my understanding is
that this group is alive and looking for items that need to be
standardized in their domain
… most of the work that was originally proposed is
completed
… if they don't have further work the group might be
closed and it would be challenging to regenerate later
… we'd only bring work to them once there are W3C
Recommendations
… so we aren't revising in ISO
Avneesh: right; we could
have a TF to brainstorm on how to move things forward
… the previous fast track process used for EPUB 3.0
and 3.1 was via Korea
… we have to consider the impact on those if we use
W3C PAS
… I suggest a TF to consider it for some months and
come back with a recommendation
Ivan: PAS puts us in a very
different situation than the previous paths for EPUB
… PAS gives us the ability for the document to become
an ISO standard as-is without additional editorial work
… I'm not sure there's even a need for a WG within ISO
… PAS is a process with JTC1; it's at the high level
in the ISO hierarchy
… PAS comes into the picture when we have a W3C
Recommendation
… it's way to early at this point, though I hear the
ISO WG's interest in getting work
… the only thing is that we should have an agreement
on is whether we have an agreement that once EPUB 3.3 is a W3C
Recommendation it is our intention to put it through PAS?
… if anyone asks that question we should have a clear
answer
… that question will come up
… I don't yet know the answer
… all the rest is at least a year away
… the W3C Recommendation is planned for February 2023
Tzviya: one of the things we have to take into consideration is, as Avneesh said, how EPUB 3.3 affects the earlier EPUB ISO standards
<avneeshsingh> +1 to having a early resolution
Ralph: W3M would very much want to hear a recommendation from the WG and BG on whether and when (i.e. how long after W3C Recommendation) W3C should take EPUB 3,3 through PAS
George: I'm not sure the ISO WG understands how PAS might work
<Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to comment on understanding the agreement
Ralph: refer them to JTC1 for the definition of PAS; the only additional detail is that W3C will only take Recommendations through that JTC1 process
Around the Table
Wendy: the FXL A11y TF is
trying to gather samples from publishers of existing FXL content as
best practices
… some publishers have offered material
… there have been questions on "fair use" language
Action: Ralph ask Wendy Seltzer for some fair use language
Liisa: in the BG
conversation with Japan last Tuesday, Makoto expressed that he's
skeptical that EPUB is a Web thing
… he's also skeptical that reflow and FXL can be
combined
Daihei: when it comes to
a11y for FXL, that's true
… the Japanese publishing industry is getting advice
and my plan is to talk with various members and get some idea on how
to deal with accessibility for FXL
… FXL is *the* format for manga
… this is very important for Japan
… and this is why Makoto is somewhat pessimistic
… I hope to come up with a united message expressing
the Japanese concerns
Tzviya: I'm hearing a
confusing message about what direction we need to head
… I look forward to hearing more
[adjourned]