17:51:42 RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg 17:51:42 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/04/20-aria-apg-irc 17:51:54 Zakim has joined #aria-apg 17:52:11 MEETING: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force 17:52:18 rrsagent, make log public 17:52:23 present+ 17:52:29 rrsagent, make minutes 17:52:29 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/20-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King 17:52:35 zakim, clear agenda 17:52:35 agenda cleared 17:57:48 agenda? 17:58:40 Meeting Topic: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/April-20%2C-2021-Agenda 18:01:09 present+ 18:01:21 present+ Sarah 18:02:03 agenda+ setup and reviewing agenda 18:02:10 jongund has joined #aria-apg 18:02:22 agenda+ ARIA APG redesign project 18:02:30 agenda+ APG index page 18:02:45 agenda+ Slider 18:03:06 agenda+ Jumpto 18:03:17 agenda+ Accordion example 18:03:20 agenda? 18:03:32 zakim, choose victm 18:03:32 I don't understand 'choose victm', Jemma 18:03:54 zakim, choose a victim 18:03:54 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Jemma 18:04:16 MarkMccarthy has joined #aria-apg 18:04:27 sarah_higley has joined #aria-apg 18:04:31 present+ 18:04:31 present+ 18:04:55 scribe: mck 18:04:56 siri has joined #aria-apg 18:05:01 Chair: Jemma 18:05:10 regrets+ 18:05:48 zakim, tak up item 1 18:05:48 I don't understand 'tak up item 1', Matt_King 18:05:57 zakim, take up item 1 18:05:57 agendum 1 -- setup and reviewing agenda -- taken up [from Jemma] 18:06:30 carmacleod has joined #aria-apg 18:06:31 Next meeting is next tuesday 18:06:47 zakim, next item 18:06:47 agendum 1 was just opened, Matt_King 18:07:00 agenda? 18:07:13 zakim, take up next item 2 18:07:13 I don't understand 'take up next item 2', Jemma 18:07:19 zakim, take up next item 18:07:19 agendum 2 -- ARIA APG redesign project -- taken up [from Jemma] 18:07:22 https://wai-aria-practices.netlify.app/aria-practices/ 18:07:58 jemma: that is url for mock up of phase 1 18:08:11 mk: this all very tenatitive, that is the mock up is 18:08:23 https://github.com/bocoup/wai-aria-practices 18:08:24 just a starting point for discussion. 18:08:36 This repo has all the docs 18:08:53 We have meeting tomorrow afternoon 18:09:36 It is a planning/admin meeting with bocoup and w3c staff. 18:09:53 zakim, next item 18:09:53 agendum 3 -- APG index page -- taken up [from Jemma] 18:10:03 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1859 18:10:09 present+ 18:10:32 jg: the aria-lable indexing now works 18:10:32 https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/update-example-index/coverage/index.html#example_coding 18:11:12 https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/update-example-index/coverage/index.html 18:12:01 Added a new table in coverage report to document which components use prototype or class and whether they use svg, and whether force color adjust is used, and where before and after pseudo classes are used. 18:12:19 https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/LPlU1MuQ/ 18:12:28 CSV Files of Role, Properties and States Coverage 18:12:28 Roles with no Guidance or Examples (27) 18:12:28 Roles with at Least One Guidance or Example (9) 18:12:28 Roles with More than One Guidance or Example (33) 18:12:29 Properties and States with no Examples (24) 18:12:29 Properties and States with One Examples (15) 18:12:29 Properties and States with More than One Example (9) 18:12:29 Example Coding Practices 18:12:30 Example: 22 examples use svg 18:13:02 Also documents which use keycode 18:13:40 Carolyn: should we also document mouse vs pointer events 18:14:04 so pessimistic. I bet we can merge by 2049! 18:14:40 CurtBellew has joined #aria-apg 18:15:43 sarah: just about to submit a review 18:15:59 A few minor syntax issues 18:16:16 Jemma: when report gets run? 18:16:25 jg: it is manual, not part of a process now. 18:16:52 present+ 18:18:25 matt: we may be able to merge this by next week. 18:18:36 zakim, next item 18:18:36 agendum 4 -- Slider -- taken up [from Jemma] 18:18:38 after the review by Sarah and work by jon 18:18:56 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1857 18:19:04 jemma: James Choels left some commnts 18:19:11 jg: added seek slider 18:19:28 do we want 2 sliders in separate examples? 18:19:36 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1847 18:20:10 and, the seek slider represents 5 minutes, and valuetext reps minutes and seconds 18:20:10 "In aria-valuetext, the number of seconds is zero-padded so you get announcements like, "1 minute 0 0 seconds" and "2 minutes 0 5 seconds"." 18:20:19 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1857#issuecomment-820771593 18:20:38 Temperature slider is fixed point decimal with the word degress appended. 18:20:40 example is https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/slider-valuetext/examples/slider/slider-valuetext.html 18:21:13 James asked if the value should include range info, like 1 minute of 5 minutes? 18:21:44 mk: talk about should we have sperate pages for each slider 18:21:58 jg: makes it easier to manage code and maybe easier to read 18:22:15 jemma and marc: agree 18:22:20 easier to read 18:22:40 jg: info spread across more pages, e.g., have to look at multiple pages for all info about valuetext 18:23:14 present + 18:23:39 mk: I think one example per page for ximplicity 18:23:51 s/ximplicity/simplicity 18:24:56 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1857#issuecomment-820771593 18:25:03 "Do we want the seek bar to indicate the maximum value (i.e. the total duration) in its value text? For example, "1 minute 30 seconds of 5 minutes"." 18:25:13 mk: now what about the question of range info in the valuetext value? 18:25:49 jg: example: should valuetext be like 1 min of 5 min 18:27:40 car: it would be pretty verbose 18:27:48 adding info of max value 18:28:11 ...users would need to hear just once of max value 18:28:17 mk: could there be downsides to putting range info in a valutext if people do this this consistently across patterns 18:28:35 present+ jamesn 18:28:43 present+ brayan garaventa 18:28:47 present+ brayangaraventa 18:28:51 carolyn: Maybe do this on initial focus, but then not repeat it as you change the value so it is not repeated over and over 18:29:03 mk: I think that is a really good idea 18:31:12 mk: How about we provide it on focus but then when the value changes, either automatically or by icrement, the range info is not repeated 18:31:43 jg: A focus event would add the info and then the move to function would not. 18:32:00 Might be hard to explain to other people 18:32:37 +100 to "we need to realize that not everything we write, people are going to read" 18:32:41 Need to have clear documentation. 18:32:56 mk: would be part of accessibility features section 18:33:31 Siri: Should valuemin and max be in minutes or seconds? 18:33:47 Right now in seconds 18:34:14 jg: that is part of reason for using valuetext, because seconds is hard to understand 18:34:57 jemma: do we have consensus on including max in valuetext on focus? 18:35:17 Downside is needs documentation, that is a bit complex\ 18:35:40 upside: Gives more info to users 18:36:48 hearing the 1 min 20 sec out of 300 might be confusing 18:36:54 curt: reminds me of how grouping works, reports it on initial focus 18:37:01 +1 Curt 18:37:39 +1 18:37:49 to Curt 18:39:26 This is the case of Media Seek slider - avoid verbosity and still add max value of the slider in meek slider example 18:39:58 agenda? 18:41:08 Jemma: let's give it a try 18:41:19 acting like legend in fieldset :) 18:41:32 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1857#issuecomment-820771593 18:41:32 jg: OK, will do that and then separate into two example pages 18:42:04 Jemma: what about James' ther feedback; already addressed. 18:42:11 zakim, next item 18:42:11 agendum 5 -- Jumpto -- taken up [from Jemma] 18:42:20 scribe: sarah_higley 18:42:30 Jemma: where are we for this feature? 18:42:50 Jon: I updated the PR, it's added using the app.js script, which adds it to all the examples now 18:43:04 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1860 18:43:06 MK: what else is in app.js? 18:43:25 Jon: app.js has support notices and stuff 18:43:48 Jon: so, it has an IIFE to... 18:43:57 (general looking up code words) 18:43:58 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/blob/main/examples/js/app.js 18:44:23 MK: it's not that important , since this stuff is almost certainly going to get redone as part of the redesign project. We should have somebody do a code review here 18:44:37 Matt: I think from functionality from what I looked at, it was already good 18:45:37 MK: we should get a code review on that one 18:46:37 zakim, next item 18:46:37 agendum 6 -- Accordion example -- taken up [from Jemma] 18:47:00 Jemma: accordion example, this is Sarah's example 18:47:23 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1830 18:47:39 scribe: mck 18:47:46 There are 2 sub PRs as well 18:47:55 They are linked in referenced examples 18:48:06 Removed arrow keys to move between heading 18:48:27 General cleanup: 18:48:27 18:48:27 Updates JS file to a class syntax 18:48:27 Update classnames to be lowercase 18:48:27 Fix some border-radius issues in focus styling 18:48:27 Updated example page wrapper id attributes to match other example pages 18:48:27 Behavior changes: 18:48:29 18:48:29 Removed arrow key and force-one-open functionality 18:48:29 Updated tests to reflect behavior change 18:48:29 Removed section that talked about focus styling for "enhanced keyboard interaction" 18:48:29 Removed arrow key/home/end rows in example page keyboard table 18:48:29 Removed aria-disabled row in example page attributes table 18:48:50 sarah: Might have also removed the requirement that one open at a time 18:49:04 1830 resolve https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1819 18:49:28 sarah: now have version where all canbe collapsed. 18:49:49 SH: So this is from the discussion we had earlier, where I removed the arrow key to navigate between headings 18:49:49 two different ways: one is by having a switch and one is by having 2 sperate examples 18:50:12 mk: you gave the group a menu of choices--what way do we like better? 18:50:16 sarah: yes 18:50:30 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1834 18:50:34 the 2 different draft examples are 1833 and 1834 18:50:39 the two different options for supporting only-one-at-a-time accordions are https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1833 and https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1834 18:50:46 https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/accordion-step-example/examples/accordion/accordion.html 18:50:47 we need to choose one oor the other of those 18:50:56 which one does the group like better 18:50:56 https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/accordion-step-example/examples/accordion/accordion-group.html 18:51:46 mk: the arrow key change is independent? 18:51:53 remove arrow key and update documentation for #1819 18:52:10 MK: so the one that removes arrow keys, we can just merge that one, and then talk about the two drafts later? 18:52:30 sarah: yes, changes key behavior and updates the code and documentation. code not uses a class 18:53:05 james: We shouldn't merge arrow key behavior without making all sections collapsable 18:53:14 sarah: I can make that change 18:53:16 JN: let's first make it so you can collapse the first section, then we can merge 18:53:50 MK: we should merge 1830 first, then choose between 1833 and 1834 as the next 18:53:50 s/documentation for #1819/documentation for #1830 18:53:55 mk: we should merge 1830 first and then choose between 1833 and 1834 as next step 18:56:05 sarah: the version that forces one open at a time is a step by step process, kind of like a wizzard. 18:56:11 https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/accordion-step-example/examples/accordion/accordion.html 18:56:17 the other one is just presentation of content 18:56:40 jemma: let's have people look this week and then make a decision next week 18:56:41 Jemma: Next meeting, we'll choose one of the two options 18:56:48 or make decision now? 18:57:05 carolyn: I think it makes sense to have it on next week's agenda 18:57:29 Carolyn: one other topic, seems like the editor's draft seems out of date 18:57:42 https://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/ 18:57:46 seems like it broke wen we changed from master to main 18:57:52 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1853 18:58:41 mk: whenever we merge to main, the editor's draft should be updated 18:59:15 rrsagent, make minutes 18:59:15 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/20-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King 19:00:52 siri, it is 1859 19:02:36 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/actions/workflows/deploy.yml 19:11:48 jongund_ has joined #aria-apg