13:30:13 RRSAgent has joined #wpwg 13:30:13 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/04/15-wpwg-irc 13:30:20 Meeting: Web Payments Working Group 13:30:41 Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/webpayments/wiki/Agenda-20210415 13:30:48 Chair: Nick 13:30:48 Scribe: Ian 13:31:01 agenda+ I18N Review 13:31:08 agenda+ SPC Task Force 13:31:11 agenda+ Next meeting 13:56:43 present+ 13:58:23 present+ Vaishali_Bulusu 13:59:30 present+ Anne_Pouillard 14:00:09 present+ 14:00:15 present+ Nick_Telford-Reed 14:00:45 present+ Erhard_Brand 14:00:49 tm has joined #wpwg 14:01:01 present+ Gustavo_Kok 14:01:27 present+ Fawad_Nisar 14:01:32 present+ Jean-Michel_Girard 14:02:10 present+ Stephen_McGruer 14:02:15 present+ Gavin_Shenker 14:02:36 Vaishali_Bulusu has joined #WPWG 14:02:41 Gavin has joined #WPWG 14:02:56 Fawad has joined #wpwg 14:03:09 Lauren has joined #wpwg 14:03:19 present+ Lauren_Jones 14:03:23 present+ Chris_Wood 14:03:42 present+ Bryan_Luo 14:04:09 zakim, take up item 2 14:04:09 agendum 2 -- SPC Task Force -- taken up [from Ian] 14:04:27 Nick: First SPC task force meeting is 19 April 14:04:58 -> https://github.com/w3c/webpayments/wiki/Meetings WPWG meeting page 14:05:04 Anne has joined #wpwg 14:05:17 -> http://www.w3.org/2021/04/spc-tf.ics 14:05:32 -> https://github.com/w3c/secure-payment-confirmation SPC repo 14:06:20 mhofman has joined #wpwg 14:06:40 present+ Mathieu_Hofman 14:06:44 Ian: Everyone is invited! 14:07:07 present+ 14:07:25 q? 14:08:03 I added SPC to the main webpayments wiki -> https://github.com/w3c/webpayments/wiki 14:08:22 Fawad_ has joined #wpwg 14:10:01 JMGirard has joined #wpwg 14:10:06 r12a has joined #wpwg 14:10:24 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/15-wpwg-minutes.html Ian 14:12:57 scribenick: nicktr 14:13:28 ian: review by (for example) the internationalisation group (i18n) is part of the process to get to recommendation 14:13:53 ...after review by that group, a number of issues were raised 14:14:16 ...@marcos and I categorised those issues - and that's what we are reviewing today 14:15:12 ...bucket 1: No implementation impact (https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1362, https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1042, https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1044, https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1045) 14:15:54 bryanluo has joined #wpwg 14:16:45 ...bucket 2: localisation including language and direction - which will have potential implementation impacts 14:17:40 present+ John_Bradley 14:17:45 present+ Gerhard_Oosthuizen 14:17:57 ian: for implementers: is the higher cost (1) parsing data (e.g., structure versus series of values) or (2) doing the localization work? 14:18:02 Gerhard has joined #WpWG 14:18:31 smcgruer_[EST]: I need to look into this in more detail 14:19:38 ian: bucket 3: localisation based on language of merchant checkout experience - localising the browser UX 14:21:52 smcgruer_[EST]: we could just type as "string" or "object" if it's just javascript APIs 14:22:21 ian: next bucket: data requests 14:22:49 https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_pay_on_the_web/applepaypaymentcontact/2928617-phoneticgivenname 14:23:23 ..i18n would like name to be divided into given name, family name, phonetic given, phonetic family 14:24:24 Since my connection is terrible, one quick comment here: One way to switch from a string to an object without breaking most users is to have the object implement a toString() for partial backwards compatibility. 14:24:40 present+ Adrian_Hope-Bailie 14:24:41 ...as an aside, we are looking at whether we should be still including shipping and billing address (because of privacy issues) 14:25:12 ...@AdrianHB is supportive of removing these addresses 14:25:32 ian: any other questions on these topics? 14:26:38 benoit: is this text intended to be displayed to users? 14:27:10 ian: the i18n wg found 6 or 7 instances of text that is supposed to be human-readable 14:28:14 benoit: my solution would be to have no human-readable text in the spec - simply error messages/tags 14:29:24 present+ Clinton_Allen 14:29:33 gustavo: +1 on having the merchant drive this. Each merchant will have a way to communicate this 14:29:56 benoit: why are we collecting name and address from the customer? 14:29:58 clinton has joined #wpwg 14:30:19 ...from a payment facilitator perspective, why is this necessary? 14:30:27 adrianHB: exactly 14:30:45 ian: history... 14:30:55 ...we chose to implement a checkout API 14:31:13 ...this has been a hot topic of discussion since the beginning of the group 14:31:43 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/15-wpwg-minutes.html Ian 14:31:50 q? 14:32:31 ian: browser vendors chose to implement payment + checkout as a single API 14:34:44 scribenick: Ian 14:35:10 AdrianHB: We only need the info if the API continues to function in the way it currently does. 14:35:22 ...there is browser UI that renders information (that needs to be localized) 14:35:24 fsasaki has joined #wpwg 14:35:24 xfq has joined #wpwg 14:35:27 addison has joined #wpwg 14:35:28 ...there are also response objects 14:35:49 ...if we did away from those behaviors we could remove the fields 14:36:17 present+ Richard_Ishida 14:36:24 present+ XFQ 14:36:28 present+ Felix_Sasaki 14:37:08 present+ Addison_Phillips 14:37:29 present+ Atsushi_Shimono 14:38:50 -> https://github.com/w3c/webpayments/wiki/Agenda-20210415 14:39:12 atsushi has joined #wpwg 14:40:17 https://github.com/w3c/payment-request/pull/942 14:42:03 present+ John_Klensin 14:42:51 Addison: Might fall back to currency code instead of currency symbol. 14:43:15 ..also there are some currency symbols that are more than one Unicode character 14:43:26 Ian: Is that a heads-up? 14:43:51 zloty 14:43:57 JcK_ has joined #wpwg 14:43:57 Addison: All your examples suggest one character-per-symbol, so maybe add something like Zloty to suggest N may be greater than 1 14:44:44 ACTION: Ian to work with folks to determine current behavior around currency symbol display when currency code cannot be matched 14:47:20 Ian: How difficult is the actual localization effort ? 14:47:55 Addison: We've worked a lot recently on format support for lang/dir info 14:48:27 https://github.com/w3c/payment-request/issues/327#issuecomment-287125209 14:48:52 ...some specs have implemented a dictionary for localizable strings 14:49:01 ...I don't know that there's a specific implementation in browsers 14:49:25 ..I think marcos suggested that we go back to WebIDL to provide a type that can be consumed 14:50:34 IJ: Can we have single dir/lang per dictionary (e.g., Payment Errors) or per-string 14:50:50 r12a: Direction between phone and name may be different. And also email addresses may be RTL 14:50:54 ...so probably "per-string" 14:52:03 q+ to ask if i18n folks are aware of any existing web APIs which have been in this position (having site-provided strings that are expected to be displayed in browser UI) 14:52:21 ack smcgruer_[EST] 14:52:21 smcgruer_[EST], you wanted to ask if i18n folks are aware of any existing web APIs which have been in this position (having site-provided strings that are expected to be displayed 14:52:24 ... in browser UI) 14:52:51 smcgruer_[EST]: Got examples of specs or APIs that do the right thing? I will be able to go speak with them. 14:53:05 r12a: Web Annotations 14:53:17 ...JSON-LD 14:53:37 Ian: There is not dedicated browser UX in the case of JSON-LD 14:53:42 r12a: We can send you a list. 14:54:14 [Addison takes the action!] 14:54:43 https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1017 14:54:54 https://github.com/w3c/payment-request/pull/944 14:56:08 IJ: How do we finesse in spec language "what the user's browser does" and "how that matches the merchant's language of checkout page" 14:56:34 Addison: This is a language negotiation issue (for UX) 14:56:51 ...what you run into is that that doesn't necessarily match the user's actual UX 14:57:01 ...the browser may be localized in a language that the Web server doesn't support. 14:57:56 ...customers have some control over their (HTTP) Accept language....generally it's the OS setup and not the browser localization 14:58:09 ...you may want to indicate in the protocol "what languages the browser supports" 14:58:17 ...but sending that up and down the wire may not be useful 14:58:30 ...which one they are using at the moment could be sent over the wire (Navigator language) 15:00:02 Addison: You can leave out "if any" since there will always be a language. 15:00:02 https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/dom.html#language 15:00:37 Addison: The document note will always have a language (inherited) 15:01:05 ...there's a question of whether you want to match if that language were not supported in the browser...what fallback might be. 15:02:00 IJ: Do we need family/given/phonetic for all names? 15:02:03 Addison: Yes 15:02:42 Next meeting? 15:02:48 Addison: We can host you too! 15:02:51 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/15-wpwg-minutes.html Ian 16:15:51 bryanluo has joined #wpwg 16:34:06 bryanluo has joined #wpwg