IRC log of aria on 2021-04-15
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:28:33 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #aria
- 16:28:33 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/04/15-aria-irc
- 16:28:35 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, make logs Public
- 16:28:37 [Zakim]
- please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn
- 16:28:45 [jamesn]
- meeting: ARIA WG
- 16:29:39 [jamesn]
- chair: JamesNurthen
- 17:00:58 [MarkMccarthy]
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- 17:01:10 [MarkMccarthy]
- present+
- 17:01:12 [jamesn]
- agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2021Apr/0010.html
- 17:01:12 [agendabot]
- clear agenda
- 17:01:12 [agendabot]
- agenda+ [New Issue Triage](https://bit.ly/3uMyTv9)
- 17:01:12 [agendabot]
- agenda+ [New PR Triage](https://bit.ly/3g9namu)
- 17:01:12 [agendabot]
- agenda+ [Meaty topic for next week](https://bit.ly/2QqpnyL)
- 17:01:12 [agendabot]
- agenda+ [Consider deleting aria-dropeffect and aria-grabbed](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1447)
- 17:01:15 [agendabot]
- agenda+ [Suggested simplification](https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/96)
- 17:01:18 [agendabot]
- agenda+ [Add role=image as synonym for role=img](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1370)
- 17:01:19 [msumner]
- msumner has joined #aria
- 17:01:25 [agendabot]
- agenda+ [1.3 triage](https://bit.ly/3wVub07)
- 17:01:26 [agendabot]
- agenda+ - - - - -
- 17:01:28 [agendabot]
- agenda+ [Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group](https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/aria) ([ View Group Calendar](https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/aria/calendar))
- 17:01:31 [agendabot]
- agenda+ - - - - -
- 17:01:40 [jamesn]
- agenda- 8
- 17:01:42 [jamesn]
- agenda- 9
- 17:01:44 [jamesn]
- agenda- 10
- 17:01:50 [jamesn]
- agenda?
- 17:01:58 [jamesn]
- present+
- 17:02:08 [pkra]
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- 17:02:12 [pkra]
- present+
- 17:02:27 [msumner]
- present+
- 17:03:32 [Jemma]
- scribe: jemma
- 17:04:52 [Jemma]
- agenda?
- 17:04:58 [carmacleod]
- carmacleod has joined #aria
- 17:05:15 [CurtBellew]
- CurtBellew has joined #aria
- 17:05:18 [Jemma]
- zakim, take up next
- 17:05:18 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 -- [New Issue Triage](https://bit.ly/3uMyTv9) -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 17:06:11 [carmacleod]
- present+
- 17:06:19 [StefanS]
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- 17:06:24 [StefanS]
- present+
- 17:06:30 [Jemma]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1455
- 17:07:00 [Jemma]
- jamesn: I recommend to creat PR to remove
- 17:07:17 [Jemma]
- Melanie will create the pr
- 17:08:01 [Jemma]
- intro - Cynthia from Google
- 17:08:37 [Jemma]
- going around for intro
- 17:11:38 [Irfan]
- Irfan has joined #aria
- 17:11:49 [Irfan]
- present+
- 17:11:53 [Jemma]
- v
- 17:11:54 [Jemma]
- https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/123
- 17:12:24 [Jemma]
- jn: Not enough information yet
- 17:13:02 [Jemma]
- scott: It belongs HTML-AAM
- 17:13:11 [siri]
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- 17:13:29 [Jemma]
- ... we can push over there and let the discussion happen.
- 17:13:38 [Jemma]
- s/there/html-aam
- 17:13:53 [Jemma]
- brayn: There has to acc name some day
- 17:14:04 [Jemma]
- s/to/to be
- 17:14:16 [Jemma]
- https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/121
- 17:15:03 [Jemma]
- melanie: it is straight forward and we can move to next milestone
- 17:15:19 [Jemma]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1453
- 17:15:31 [Jemma]
- zakim, next
- 17:15:31 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'next', Jemma
- 17:15:35 [Jemma]
- zakim, next item
- 17:15:35 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 -- [New PR Triage](https://bit.ly/3g9namu) -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 17:15:59 [Jemma]
- #1454 is being worked on.
- 17:16:18 [cyns]
- cyns has joined #aria
- 17:16:22 [Jemma]
- #122 was reviewed by multiple members
- 17:16:39 [Jemma]
- jamescraig will review the issue.
- 17:16:51 [Jemma]
- also please help to reach out to Mozila, Jaems Tahe
- 17:16:58 [Jemma]
- zakim, next item
- 17:16:58 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 -- [Meaty topic for next week](https://bit.ly/2QqpnyL) -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 17:17:07 [Jemma]
- s/Tahe/Tae
- 17:18:56 [Jemma]
- stefan: added deep dive issue
- 17:19:24 [Jemma]
- jn: please add deep dive label to the issue, Stefa
- 17:19:25 [jcraig]
- s/Jaems Tae/James Teh/
- 17:19:38 [Jemma]
- s/stefa/stefan
- 17:20:07 [Jemma]
- the role description discussion by Stefan will be three weeks time frame
- 17:20:13 [jcraig]
- May 6th
- 17:20:58 [Jemma]
- data visualization will be next topic for deep dive session
- 17:21:17 [Jemma]
- zakim, take up next item
- 17:21:17 [Zakim]
- agendum 4 -- [Consider deleting aria-dropeffect and aria-grabbed](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1447) -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 17:21:42 [Jemma]
- aria channel for deep dive is #aria-dive
- 17:22:22 [Jemma]
- jn: waiting for Bryan to join the discussion since brayn implemented this effectively
- 17:23:27 [msumner]
- I have a codepen demo of this: https://codepen.io/melsumner/pen/rLEvdX
- 17:24:02 [Jemma]
- brayn: talking about list box behavior example
- 17:24:32 [Jemma]
- jc: "support" is loaded term here
- 17:25:22 [MichaelC]
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- 17:25:26 [Jemma]
- drag is more of both select and drop, not one action
- 17:25:53 [Jemma]
- jc: the reason for deprecation was that there are not enough support
- 17:26:59 [Jemma]
- ...aria grabbed with keyboard command can be working but the test work cannot be generalized and universal
- 17:27:30 [Jemma]
- jn: we used to use live region for the drag...
- 17:28:19 [Jemma]
- jc: we may go back to HML and fix drag and drop because once we were able to get enought out of that API to make it accessible
- 17:28:42 [Jemma]
- jn: do not hear no great desire to drop it.
- 17:28:52 [Jemma]
- Car: I can close it for now/
- 17:29:11 [Jemma]
- jn: Carolyn will add comment on what the future plan is when she close the issue
- 17:29:48 [Jemma]
- zakim, take up next
- 17:29:48 [Zakim]
- agendum 5 -- [Suggested simplification](https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/96) -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 17:30:01 [Jemma]
- https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/96
- 17:30:14 [Jemma]
- jn: We need review for the issue
- 17:30:48 [jcraig]
- s/we may go back to HML and fix drag and drop because once we were able to get enought out of that API to make it accessible/The path may be to fix HTML drag and drop. Once we're able to get enough out of that API to make it accessible, we'll be better informed to redesign any necessary ARIA API./
- 17:33:34 [Jemma]
- group is talking about the way to reference each spec flexibly.
- 17:34:08 [Jemma]
- options are adding editor's note, fixing the numbering and so on.
- 17:34:33 [Jemma]
- jn: one option will be name reference
- 17:34:53 [Jemma]
- jc: bulleted list of headings be helpful?
- 17:36:09 [Jemma]
- bryan: name it based on section is meant to be - each step after aria label and so on...
- 17:36:30 [Jemma]
- zakim, next item
- 17:36:30 [Zakim]
- agendum 6 -- [Add role=image as synonym for role=img](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1370) -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 17:36:39 [Jemma]
- s/name/we can name
- 17:37:10 [Jemma]
- scott: it is ready for the review and connected to the issue of role="none"
- 17:37:43 [Jemma]
- ... curious about whethere I need to add presentation to the table or revised the javascript
- 17:38:14 [Jemma]
- good first issue for JamesN
- 17:39:53 [Jemma]
- scott: two role definition can be within the sae heading, it would be great but it will break the spec.
- 17:40:39 [Jemma]
- jc: We may use synonym and to link each other.
- 17:40:48 [Jemma]
- jn: we are moving out of Respec
- 17:41:21 [Jemma]
- ... currently work on definition before the migration
- 17:41:33 [Jemma]
- jn: I can investigate the solution
- 17:41:37 [Jemma]
- agenda?
- 17:41:49 [Jemma]
- scott: PR is ready for word smithing
- 17:42:00 [jcraig]
- s/We may use synonym/We may use rel=synonym/
- 17:42:55 [jcraig]
- s/We may use rel=synonym/We might consider using rel=synonym (and suggest ReSpec or Bikeshed support it)/
- 17:43:16 [Jemma]
- jn: example is presentaion and none
- 17:43:37 [Jemma]
- ...in which order do we link the synonym?
- 17:44:07 [Jemma]
- ... none or presentation first?
- 17:45:08 [Jemma]
- jc: we can consider "backward (historical) compatibility" for the order
- 17:45:57 [Jemma]
- Cyn: should someone make a one up for the issue to witch them around?
- 17:46:02 [Jemma]
- jn: good idea
- 17:46:29 [Jemma]
- car: adding the depreciatation date will be helpful to users
- 17:47:02 [Jemma]
- ... as the part of intent note.
- 17:47:51 [jamesn]
- fyi i have a branch for presentation and none https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria/jnurthen/presentationtonone/index.html#presentation
- 17:48:19 [Jemma]
- jc: there is a challenge for adding specific depreciate date due to specific work flow. - drag and drop example. but we can consider in the future.
- 17:48:45 [Jemma]
- ... we can keep those info until we have fall back info.
- 17:49:03 [zcorpan]
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- 17:50:02 [Jemma]
- scott: I created the issue 1456 from this discussion
- 17:50:14 [Jemma]
- zakim, next item
- 17:50:14 [Zakim]
- agendum 7 -- [1.3 triage](https://bit.ly/3wVub07) -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 17:50:24 [Jemma]
- agenda?
- 17:50:42 [Jemma]
- #1203
- 17:51:04 [Jemma]
- jn: it is not feasible to implement within 1.3 time lin
- 17:51:14 [Jemma]
- ... we move to 1.4
- 17:51:20 [zcorpan]
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- 17:51:22 [Jemma]
- s/time lin/timeline
- 17:52:04 [Jemma]
- jn: I will go through and pull out of this extra labeling stuff.
- 17:52:12 [Jemma]
- zakim, next item
- 17:52:12 [Zakim]
- I do not see any more non-closed or non-skipped agenda items, Jemma
- 17:52:27 [zcorpan]
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- 17:52:39 [Jemma]
- #1219
- 17:52:55 [Jemma]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1219
- 17:53:04 [Jemma]
- Name from author on column header & structural relationships
- 17:53:12 [Jemma]
- scott: I will look at this.
- 17:53:43 [Jemma]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1228
- 17:54:33 [Jemma]
- jn: we can move to 1.4
- 17:54:50 [Jemma]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1236
- 17:54:58 [Jemma]
- Processing of the role attribute not clearly defined #1236
- 17:55:23 [jcraig]
- Am I correct in thinking image role hasn't yet landed in Editor's draft? I only see img. https://w3c.github.io/aria/#img Was trying to file the WK tracker.
- 17:55:27 [pkra]
- gotta run. see you next week.
- 17:56:31 [Jemma]
- james craig will review and add comments
- 17:56:31 [zcorpan]
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- 17:56:48 [Jemma]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1255
- 17:57:00 [Jemma]
- aria-hidden error case: remove attribute aria-hidden=true on elements that become focused, and any ancestor of the element that is currently focused. #1255
- 17:57:30 [Jemma]
- it will be assigned to Irfan
- 17:59:22 [Jemma]
- jc: can we potentailly point body type element, not html root element when Irfan works on the issue?
- 18:01:23 [zcorpan]
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- 18:03:39 [zcorpan_]
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- 18:03:41 [Jemma]
- ... the issue was that disallow are hidden are bascially ignore our hidden on the root element at some point in the past in webkit
- 18:05:28 [Jemma]
- ...we have to make sure we only do it on the top level document.
- 18:07:05 [Jemma]
- scott: it is a good point. my only concern is that just making sure that we don't bascially say that nested documents can be set to already hidden equals true.
- 18:07:48 [Jemma]
- jn: that is interesting. I don't think it should be allowed on the body element itself.
- 18:08:56 [Jemma]
- jc: to your pint about nested documents, it is right as JamesN said in an iframe or something like a shadow root. Aria-hiden attribute can be used effectively in that case.
- 18:09:27 [Jemma]
- irfan: Scott, would you like to discuss that with me at some point of time?
- 18:09:33 [Jemma]
- Scott: yes.
- 18:09:50 [Jemma]
- zakim, who is here?
- 18:09:50 [Zakim]
- Present: MarkMccarthy, jamesn, pkra, msumner, carmacleod, StefanS, Irfan
- 18:09:53 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see zcorpan_, MichaelC, cyns, siri, Irfan, CurtBellew, RRSAgent, Zakim, jamesn, github-bot, tzviya, Jemma, jcraig, slightlyoff, ZoeBijl, bigbluehat, agendabot, joanie,
- 18:09:53 [Zakim]
- ... JonathanNeal, timeless, Josh_Soref
- 18:10:13 [Jemma]
- persent+ Cynthia
- 18:10:16 [jcraig]
- present+ jcraig
- 18:11:18 [Jemma]
- present+ Curtbellow
- 18:11:36 [Jemma]
- present scottohara
- 18:11:40 [Jemma]
- present+ scottohara
- 18:12:52 [Jemma]
- s/creat/create
- 18:15:35 [Jemma]
- s/whethere/whether
- 18:16:25 [Jemma]
- s/move to/move this to/
- 18:17:57 [Jemma]
- rrsagent, make meeting mintues
- 18:17:57 [RRSAgent]
- I'm logging. I don't understand 'make meeting mintues', Jemma. Try /msg RRSAgent help
- 18:18:05 [Jemma]
- rrsagent, make mintues
- 18:18:05 [RRSAgent]
- I'm logging. I don't understand 'make mintues', Jemma. Try /msg RRSAgent help
- 18:18:30 [Jemma]
- rrsagents, make minutes
- 18:18:51 [Jemma]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 18:18:51 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/15-aria-minutes.html Jemma
- 18:19:16 [Jemma]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 18:20:25 [Jemma]
- present+ Cyns
- 18:20:44 [Jemma]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
- 18:20:44 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/15-aria-minutes.html Jemma
- 18:21:57 [Jemma]
- present+ jemma
- 18:22:35 [Jemma]
- regret+ SarahHigley
- 18:25:33 [Jemma]
- melanie: I have it as a rule in my linter. https://github.com/ember-template-lint/ember-template-lint/blob/master/docs/rule/no-aria-hidden-body.md
- 18:30:25 [jcraig]
- joanie https://webkit.org/b/224615 https://webkit.org/b/224617 for compliance testing
- 19:24:29 [zcorpan]
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