16:28:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
16:28:33 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/04/15-aria-irc
16:28:35 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:28:37 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn
16:28:45 <jamesn> meeting: ARIA WG
16:29:39 <jamesn> chair: JamesNurthen
17:00:58 <MarkMccarthy> MarkMccarthy has joined #aria
17:01:10 <MarkMccarthy> present+
17:01:12 <jamesn> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2021Apr/0010.html
17:01:12 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:01:12 <agendabot> agenda+ [New Issue Triage](https://bit.ly/3uMyTv9)
17:01:12 <agendabot> agenda+ [New PR Triage](https://bit.ly/3g9namu)
17:01:12 <agendabot> agenda+ [Meaty topic for next week](https://bit.ly/2QqpnyL)
17:01:12 <agendabot> agenda+ [Consider deleting aria-dropeffect and aria-grabbed](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1447)
17:01:15 <agendabot> agenda+ [Suggested simplification](https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/96)
17:01:18 <agendabot> agenda+ [Add role=image as synonym for role=img](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1370)
17:01:19 <msumner> msumner has joined #aria
17:01:25 <agendabot> agenda+ [1.3 triage](https://bit.ly/3wVub07)
17:01:26 <agendabot> agenda+ - - - - -
17:01:28 <agendabot> agenda+ [Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group](https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/aria) ([  View Group Calendar](https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/aria/calendar))
17:01:31 <agendabot> agenda+ - - - - -
17:01:40 <jamesn> agenda- 8
17:01:42 <jamesn> agenda- 9
17:01:44 <jamesn> agenda- 10
17:01:50 <jamesn> agenda?
17:01:58 <jamesn> present+
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17:02:12 <pkra> present+
17:02:27 <msumner> present+
17:03:32 <Jemma> scribe: jemma
17:04:52 <Jemma> agenda?
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17:05:18 <Jemma> zakim, take up next
17:05:18 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- [New Issue Triage](https://bit.ly/3uMyTv9) -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:06:11 <carmacleod> present+
17:06:19 <StefanS> StefanS has joined #aria
17:06:24 <StefanS> present+
17:06:30 <Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1455
17:07:00 <Jemma> jamesn: I recommend to creat PR to remove
17:07:17 <Jemma> Melanie will create the pr
17:08:01 <Jemma> intro  - Cynthia from Google
17:08:37 <Jemma> going around for intro
17:11:38 <Irfan> Irfan has joined #aria
17:11:49 <Irfan> present+
17:11:53 <Jemma> v
17:11:54 <Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/123
17:12:24 <Jemma> jn: Not enough information yet
17:13:02 <Jemma> scott: It belongs HTML-AAM
17:13:11 <siri> siri has joined #aria
17:13:29 <Jemma> ... we can push over there and let the discussion happen.
17:13:38 <Jemma> s/there/html-aam
17:13:53 <Jemma> brayn: There has to acc name some day
17:14:04 <Jemma> s/to/to be
17:14:16 <Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/121
17:15:03 <Jemma> melanie: it is straight forward and we can move to next milestone
17:15:19 <Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1453
17:15:31 <Jemma> zakim, next
17:15:31 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next', Jemma
17:15:35 <Jemma> zakim, next item
17:15:35 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- [New PR Triage](https://bit.ly/3g9namu) -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:15:59 <Jemma> #1454 is being worked on.
17:16:18 <cyns> cyns has joined #aria
17:16:22 <Jemma> #122 was reviewed by multiple members
17:16:39 <Jemma> jamescraig will review the issue.
17:16:51 <Jemma> also please help to reach out to Mozila, Jaems Tahe
17:16:58 <Jemma> zakim, next item
17:16:58 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- [Meaty topic for next week](https://bit.ly/2QqpnyL) -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:17:07 <Jemma> s/Tahe/Tae
17:18:56 <Jemma> stefan: added deep dive issue
17:19:24 <Jemma> jn: please add deep dive label to the issue, Stefa
17:19:25 <jcraig> s/Jaems Tae/James Teh/
17:19:38 <Jemma> s/stefa/stefan
17:20:07 <Jemma>  the role description discussion by Stefan will be three weeks time frame
17:20:13 <jcraig> May 6th
17:20:58 <Jemma> data visualization will be next topic for deep dive session
17:21:17 <Jemma> zakim, take up next item
17:21:17 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- [Consider deleting aria-dropeffect and aria-grabbed](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1447) -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:21:42 <Jemma> aria channel for deep dive is #aria-dive
17:22:22 <Jemma> jn: waiting for Bryan to join the discussion since brayn implemented this effectively
17:23:27 <msumner> I have a codepen demo of this: https://codepen.io/melsumner/pen/rLEvdX
17:24:02 <Jemma> brayn: talking about list box behavior example
17:24:32 <Jemma> jc: "support" is loaded term here
17:25:22 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #aria
17:25:26 <Jemma> drag is more of both select and drop, not one action
17:25:53 <Jemma> jc: the reason for deprecation was that there are not enough support
17:26:59 <Jemma> ...aria grabbed with keyboard command can be working but the test work cannot be generalized and universal
17:27:30 <Jemma> jn: we used to use live region for the drag...
17:28:19 <Jemma> jc: we may go back to HML and fix drag and drop because once we were able to get enought out of that API to make it accessible
17:28:42 <Jemma> jn: do not hear no great desire to drop it.
17:28:52 <Jemma> Car: I can close it for now/
17:29:11 <Jemma> jn: Carolyn will add comment on what the future plan is when she close the issue
17:29:48 <Jemma> zakim, take up next
17:29:48 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- [Suggested simplification](https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/96) -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:30:01 <Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/96
17:30:14 <Jemma> jn: We need review for the issue
17:30:48 <jcraig> s/we may go back to HML and fix drag and drop because once we were able to get enought out of that API to make it accessible/The path may be to fix HTML drag and drop. Once we're able to get enough out of that API to make it accessible, we'll be better informed to redesign any necessary ARIA API./
17:33:34 <Jemma> group is talking about the way to reference each spec flexibly.
17:34:08 <Jemma> options are adding editor's note, fixing the numbering and so on.
17:34:33 <Jemma> jn: one option will be name reference
17:34:53 <Jemma> jc: bulleted list of headings be helpful?
17:36:09 <Jemma> bryan: name it based on section is meant to be - each step after aria label and so on...
17:36:30 <Jemma> zakim, next item
17:36:30 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- [Add role=image as synonym for role=img](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1370) -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:36:39 <Jemma> s/name/we can name
17:37:10 <Jemma> scott: it is ready for the review and connected to the issue of role="none"
17:37:43 <Jemma> ... curious about whethere I need to add presentation to the table or revised the javascript
17:38:14 <Jemma> good first issue for JamesN
17:39:53 <Jemma> scott: two role definition can be within the sae heading, it would be great but it will break the spec.
17:40:39 <Jemma> jc: We may use synonym and to link each other.
17:40:48 <Jemma> jn: we are moving out of Respec
17:41:21 <Jemma> ... currently  work on definition before the migration
17:41:33 <Jemma> jn: I can investigate the solution
17:41:37 <Jemma> agenda?
17:41:49 <Jemma> scott: PR is ready for word smithing
17:42:00 <jcraig> s/We may use synonym/We may use rel=synonym/
17:42:55 <jcraig> s/We may use rel=synonym/We might consider using rel=synonym (and suggest ReSpec or Bikeshed support it)/
17:43:16 <Jemma> jn: example is presentaion and none
17:43:37 <Jemma> ...in which order do we link the synonym?
17:44:07 <Jemma> ... none or presentation first?
17:45:08 <Jemma> jc: we can consider "backward (historical) compatibility" for the order
17:45:57 <Jemma> Cyn: should someone make a one up for the issue to witch them around?
17:46:02 <Jemma> jn: good idea
17:46:29 <Jemma> car: adding the depreciatation date will be helpful to users
17:47:02 <Jemma> ... as the part of intent note.
17:47:51 <jamesn> fyi i have a branch for presentation and none https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria/jnurthen/presentationtonone/index.html#presentation
17:48:19 <Jemma> jc: there is a challenge for adding specific depreciate date due to specific work flow. - drag and drop example. but we can consider in the future.
17:48:45 <Jemma> ... we can keep those info until we have fall back info.
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17:50:02 <Jemma> scott: I created the issue 1456 from this discussion
17:50:14 <Jemma> zakim, next item
17:50:14 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- [1.3 triage](https://bit.ly/3wVub07) -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:50:24 <Jemma> agenda?
17:50:42 <Jemma> #1203
17:51:04 <Jemma> jn: it is not feasible to implement within 1.3 time lin
17:51:14 <Jemma> ... we move to 1.4
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17:51:22 <Jemma> s/time lin/timeline
17:52:04 <Jemma> jn: I will go through and pull out of this extra labeling stuff.
17:52:12 <Jemma> zakim, next item
17:52:12 <Zakim> I do not see any more non-closed or non-skipped agenda items, Jemma
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17:52:39 <Jemma> #1219
17:52:55 <Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1219
17:53:04 <Jemma> Name from author on column header & structural relationships
17:53:12 <Jemma> scott: I will look at this.
17:53:43 <Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1228
17:54:33 <Jemma> jn: we can move to 1.4
17:54:50 <Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1236
17:54:58 <Jemma> Processing of the role attribute not clearly defined #1236
17:55:23 <jcraig> Am I correct in thinking image role hasn't yet landed in Editor's draft? I only see img. https://w3c.github.io/aria/#img Was trying to file the WK tracker.
17:55:27 <pkra> gotta run. see you next week.
17:56:31 <Jemma> james craig will review and add comments
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17:56:48 <Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1255
17:57:00 <Jemma> aria-hidden error case: remove attribute aria-hidden=true on elements that become focused, and any ancestor of the element that is currently focused. #1255
17:57:30 <Jemma> it will be assigned to Irfan
17:59:22 <Jemma> jc: can we potentailly point body type element, not html root element  when Irfan works on the issue?
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18:03:41 <Jemma> ... the issue was that disallow are hidden are bascially ignore our hidden on the root element at some point in the past in webkit
18:05:28 <Jemma> ...we have to make sure we only do it on the top level document.
18:07:05 <Jemma> scott: it is a good point. my only concern  is that just making sure that we don't bascially say that nested documents can be set to already hidden equals true.
18:07:48 <Jemma> jn: that is interesting. I don't think it should be allowed on the body element itself.
18:08:56 <Jemma> jc: to your pint about nested documents, it is right as JamesN said in an iframe or something like a shadow root. Aria-hiden attribute can be used effectively in that case.
18:09:27 <Jemma> irfan: Scott, would you like to discuss that with me at some point of time?
18:09:33 <Jemma> Scott: yes.
18:09:50 <Jemma> zakim, who is here?
18:09:50 <Zakim> Present: MarkMccarthy, jamesn, pkra, msumner, carmacleod, StefanS, Irfan
18:09:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see zcorpan_, MichaelC, cyns, siri, Irfan, CurtBellew, RRSAgent, Zakim, jamesn, github-bot, tzviya, Jemma, jcraig, slightlyoff, ZoeBijl, bigbluehat, agendabot, joanie,
18:09:53 <Zakim> ... JonathanNeal, timeless, Josh_Soref
18:10:13 <Jemma> persent+ Cynthia
18:10:16 <jcraig> present+ jcraig
18:11:18 <Jemma> present+ Curtbellow
18:11:36 <Jemma> present scottohara
18:11:40 <Jemma> present+ scottohara
18:12:52 <Jemma> s/creat/create
18:15:35 <Jemma> s/whethere/whether
18:16:25 <Jemma> s/move to/move this to/
18:17:57 <Jemma> rrsagent, make meeting mintues
18:17:57 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make meeting mintues', Jemma.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
18:18:05 <Jemma> rrsagent, make mintues
18:18:05 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make mintues', Jemma.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
18:18:30 <Jemma> rrsagents, make minutes
18:18:51 <Jemma> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:18:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/15-aria-minutes.html Jemma
18:19:16 <Jemma> rrsagent, make log public
18:20:25 <Jemma> present+ Cyns
18:20:44 <Jemma> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
18:20:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/15-aria-minutes.html Jemma
18:21:57 <Jemma> present+ jemma
18:22:35 <Jemma> regret+ SarahHigley
18:25:33 <Jemma> melanie: I have it as a rule in my linter. https://github.com/ember-template-lint/ember-template-lint/blob/master/docs/rule/no-aria-hidden-body.md
18:30:25 <jcraig> joanie https://webkit.org/b/224615 https://webkit.org/b/224617 for compliance testing
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