Meeting minutes
<LisaSeemanKest_> What can we close at https://
<Lionel_Wolberger> agenda: this
wording for note for internationalization . see thread at https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2021Apr/0008.html
<LisaSeemanKest_> Personalization notes that there is ambiguity regarding the formatting of language _value_. We recommend authors also confirm BCP47 in cases where this would not unnecessarily restrict user activity.
<JF> A HUGE -1 to that response. It is perpetuating the bad information
LisaSeemanKest_: Discussing tweaking this language further.
JF: Our work is not about output, it is about machine readable code that can be interpreted on the page
LisaSeemanKest_: Agree
JF: No reply from Addison
LisaSeemanKest_: Proposing: Personalization notes that this specification does not affect the values of the input.
JF: ... it is not intended to affect the output of the form.
… whatever goes into the form is the responsibility of the user, and the maker of the form.
… this is not the autocomplete issue (that has occupied us)
<LisaSeemanKest_> do a note or just resolve at issue level
<janina> +1 to including a note
<Matthew_Atkinson> +1 to including a note
+1 to including a note
<sharon> +1 to including a note
<becky> +1\
<JF> What does the note say?
<JF> include the note where?
<LisaSeemanKest_> in module 1
Matthew_Atkinson: Agree with becky, we are trying to be interoperable with autcomplete, so that's why we need the note
… ok to remove the extra 'value' word
JF: The attribute is purpose. The value is token. The token is, language.
<LisaSeemanKest_> Note: This does not affect the formatting of language. We recommend authors also confirm BCP47 in cases where this would not unnecessarily restrict user activity.
JF: the note can say, the token value does not mandate the use of the ISO language code
Note: This does not affect the formatting of language. We recommend authors also conform with BCP47 in cases where this would not unnecessarily restrict user activity.
<LisaSeemanKest_> Note: This does not affect the formatting of language value. We recommend authors also confirm to BCP47 if appropriate.
<JF> Note: the use of the language token DOES NOT mandate the use of BCP47 values: authors can request that or a simple text string.
Note: This does not affect the formatting of language values. We recommend authors also confirm to BCP47 if appropriate.
Note: This does not affect the formatting of language values. We recommend authors also confirm to BCP47 when appropriate.
<LisaSeemanKest_> Note: This does not affect the formatting of language values. We recommend authors also confirm to BCP47 when appropriate.
Matthew_Atkinson: Instead of "formatting," try "outputting" ??
<LisaSeemanKest_> john: Note: the use of the language token DOES NOT mandate the use of BCP47 values: authors can request that or a simple text string.
<LisaSeemanKest_> johns wording but not large caps
JF: Note: the use of the language token does not mandate the use of BCP47 values: authors can request that or a simple text string.
<LisaSeemanKest_> +1 to becky
becky: when we respond to this open issue from i18n, we need to make sure that we add
… we think this is a larger issue (include reference to the WHAT-WG bug, and parts of JF's email) to indicate
… they have a country value, they need a language value to make it seperate.
JF: Let's draft that offline.
draft RESOLUTION: Adopt the above language for the note. After JF/Becky draft the email, we will send both the note and the email
<JF> draft RESOLUTION: add a note to our spec - "Note: the use of the language token does not mandate the use of BCP47 values: authors can request that or a simple text string."
<JF> draft: ACTION: JF and Becky to work offline to draft a response to i18n noting issues and JF's email
<LisaSeemanKest_> draft RESOLUTION: Adopt the Note: the use of the language token does not mandate the use of BCP47 values: authors can request that or a simple text string.language for the note. we will send both the note and the issue reference to what-wg to close issue
Resolution: add a note to our spec - "Note: the use of the language token does not mandate the use of BCP47 values: authors can request that or a simple text string."
Action: JF and Becky to work offline to draft a response to i18n noting what-wg issue and our note to close issue
<LisaSeemanKest_> next item
becky: Seems to be too many issues and choices.
… A link is a navigation to a new page. A button is an action on the same page.
<LisaSeemanKest_> https://
becky: Example: "help" is sufficient, "opens on page help" is not more informative.
<JF> +1 to Charles
becky: we can't say "opens" in an action list. "reveals", "navigates to", all these terms have potential alternative interpretations.
LisaSeemanKest_: three ways forward proposed
… (1) a minor tweak at the top of each attribute that clarifies that intent
… (2) rewrite (though we made that table to clarify this)
… (3) ignore it.
<LisaSeemanKest_> 1
<JF> 1 - this just needs some clarification
<LisaSeemanKest_> charles not sure
<JF> Note: the token value of 'help' can be applied to both a link and a button. Content authors should choose the appropriate component in context.
<Matthew_Atkinson> I think it's mostly 1, but maybe a bit of 2 (depends on whether we keep/how we explain the distinction between action and destination [need more info])
LisaSeemanKest_: Put a clarification at the top between action and destination,
… Then address specific WCAG questions (e.g., those by Becky and Matthew)
… then give specific examples
JF: Agree a minor tweak will work here.
… Note: the token value of 'help' can be applied to both a link and a button. Content authors should choose the appropriate component in context.
… Putting this in both places IMHO answers the specific question regarding 'help'
<becky> +1 JF proposal wording
<LisaSeemanKest_> Note: the token value of 'help' can be applied to both a link and a button. Content authors should choose the appropriate component in context.
<LisaSeemanKest_> +1
<sharon> +1
<JF> +1
<becky> +1 repeating this for each of the duplicate values
<janina> +1
+1
becky: duplicate values: help, comment, feedback, etc.
<JF> +1 to "some values"
becky: or just say , some values can apply to both a link and a value
… cannot just put this on, 'help'
JF: Note: Some of these token values can apply to both a link and a button. Content authors should choose the appropriate component in context.
<JF> draft: Note: Some of these token values can apply to both an Action and a Destination. Content authors should choose the appropriate component in context.
becky: Put it at the top, or on each one as repeated.
+1
<LisaSeemanKest_> +1
draft: RESOLUTION: Put this note at the top of 3.1.1 and 3.1.2
<JF> draft RESOLUTION: add a note to both the Action and Destination sections - "Note: Some of these token values can apply to both an Action and a Destination. Content authors should choose the appropriate component in context."
Resolution: add a note to both the Action and Destination sections - "Note: Some of these token values can apply to both an Action and a Destination. Content authors should choose the appropriate component in context."
<Zakim> JF, you wanted to note that the difference between a button and a link is mostly a concern for non-sighted users
Matthew_Atkinson: Regarding issue 66, there were many specific suggestions made
… how do we work, as a group, prior to the pull request review?
Matthew_Atkinson: ... How did we decide which things to put in the Action and Destination sections?
… dont mean to cause the group to revisit everything, but I am looking for clarification
Charles: the list was originally from COGA
… Regarding inconsistent hyphenation, put a new issue to cover that
Lionel_Wolberger: Can we consider putting a citation to help readers understand where the table came from?
Charles: The history is in github
… the first editor's draft may be informative
janina: Even if the list came from COGA, our concern is wider and includes sensory disabilities and more.
JF: Returning to the discussion of types of decorative images.
… can inform our list of distraction types