14:55:53 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pbgsc
14:55:53 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/04/09-pbgsc-irc
14:56:06 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #pbgsc
14:56:13 <tzviya> Chair: Tzviya
14:56:22 <tzviya> Meeting: Publishing Steering Committe
14:56:29 <tzviya> s/Comitte/Committee
14:56:43 <tzviya> Date: 2021-04-09
15:01:40 <tzviya> present+
15:02:11 <avneeshsingh> avneeshsingh has joined #pbgsc
15:02:32 <avneeshsingh> present+
15:03:37 <dauwhe> present+
15:04:07 <liisamk> liisamk has joined #pbgsc
15:04:12 <ivan> present+
15:04:36 <wendyreid> present_
15:04:37 <George> George has joined #pbgsc
15:04:39 <wendyreid> present+
15:04:43 <liisamk> present+
15:04:50 <tzviya> Agenda+ Global Engagement in the CG
15:04:50 <tzviya> Agenda+ Planning a Community Webinar
15:04:50 <tzviya> Agenda+ Review videos from WAI EO for publishing content [3]
15:04:50 <tzviya> Agenda+ Around the Table
15:04:50 <tzviya>  Agenda+ AOB
15:05:02 <George> present+
15:05:10 <tzviya> regrets+ Daihei
15:05:26 <wendyreid> scribe+
15:05:34 <wendyreid> tzviya: Let's get started
15:05:42 <wendyreid> TOPIC, Global Engagement with the CG
15:05:51 <Garth> present+ Garth
15:05:57 <wendyreid> zakim, next topic
15:05:57 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next topic', wendyreid
15:06:01 <wendyreid> zakim, next
15:06:01 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next', wendyreid
15:06:11 <wendyreid> TOPIC, Planning a community webinar
15:06:25 <wendyreid> tzviya: We did an update on the activity last year
15:06:35 <wendyreid> ... we haven't kept up with communications
15:06:39 <wendyreid> ... we've done some outreach
15:06:51 <wendyreid> ... we wanted to discuss some ideas for running another webinar, or other approaches
15:06:56 <wendyreid> ... thoughts?
15:07:12 <George> q+
15:07:25 <tzviya> ack George
15:07:40 <wendyreid>  George: I think that there has been a lot of webinars that people have been attending
15:07:58 <wendyreid> ... people are tired of them, even though its a good thing to do
15:08:02 <wendyreid> ... we've produced a lot
15:08:19 <wendyreid> ... the community doesn't necessarily know about all of the resources
15:08:33 <wendyreid> ... part of it should be leading people to resources to keep up with things
15:08:55 <wendyreid> tzviya: I agree, people are overwhelmed on webinars
15:09:01 <wendyreid> ... but there's also a number of good ones out there
15:09:10 <wendyreid> ... adjacent to or part of
15:09:17 <wendyreid> ... DAISY, ebookcraft, etc
15:09:25 <wendyreid> ... maybe we can capitalize on whats been happening
15:09:25 <avneeshsingh> q+
15:09:28 <wendyreid> George: and curate
15:09:32 <liisamk> q+
15:09:33 <wendyreid> ... guide people to the good stuff
15:09:35 <tzviya> ack avneeshsingh
15:09:59 <wendyreid> avneeshsingh: In webinar it depends on what we want to talk about
15:10:03 <wendyreid> ... the topic needs to be engaging
15:10:17 <wendyreid> ... people might want to know about the outcomes of our work as opposed to the technical issues
15:10:19 <Cristina> Cristina has joined #pbgsc
15:10:33 <wendyreid> ... if I present the epub a11y work in the context of the alignment with EUAA
15:10:47 <wendyreid> ... we have a new document with explanations for all of the different content types
15:11:00 <wendyreid> ... all of these things are attractive to a multitude of users
15:11:08 <wendyreid> ... if we show things like this, it could be successful
15:11:14 <tzviya> ack liisamk
15:11:15 <wendyreid> ... we shouldn't talk about the boring techy stuff
15:11:25 <wendyreid> liisamk: Avneesh +!
15:11:34 <wendyreid> ... +1, what is interesting for the less technical
15:11:44 <wendyreid> ... put a lot of faith that people are overloaded
15:11:56 <wendyreid> ... people do watch videos or use the materials that come out of a webinar
15:11:59 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pbgsc
15:12:10 <wendyreid> ... we may get lots of people participating asynchronously
15:12:13 <wendyreid> tzviya: +1
15:12:28 <wendyreid> ... thinking about webinar fatigue and making things engaging
15:12:36 <wendyreid> ... we've worked on the weeds for a while
15:12:40 <wendyreid> ... the nuts and bolts
15:12:46 <wendyreid> ... most people are not interested in those details
15:12:59 <wendyreid> ... even a 20 minute update would be pretty boring
15:13:10 <George> q+
15:13:13 <wendyreid> ... readability, testing, accessibility improvements
15:13:27 <wendyreid> ... people would be interested in it, but mostly in the accessibility part
15:13:32 <tzviya> ack George
15:13:39 <wendyreid> ... should we do an epub accessiblity webinar?
15:14:06 <wendyreid> George: I wonder if putting out a document that would link to a series of short videos that people could choose from
15:14:14 <Ralph> [Ralph arrives, with apologies for being late]
15:14:16 <Ralph> present+
15:14:35 <wendyreid> ... this menu that people select from would be organized around various topics
15:14:43 <wendyreid> ... accessibility, metadata, etc
15:14:56 <mateus> mateus has joined #pbgsc
15:14:57 <wendyreid> ... rather than trying to put everything into a single webinar
15:15:04 <mateus> present+
15:15:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/09-pbgsc-minutes.html Ralph
15:15:26 <wendyreid> tzviya: Brief videos on the various topics we're working on and let people watch what they want
15:15:42 <wendyreid> George: It's maybe more work for us, but it also means this content is reusable
15:15:50 <Ralph> [I like George's suggestion to make shorter recordings that people can watch on their own scheduels]
15:15:52 <liisamk> q+
15:15:54 <wendyreid> ... or usable by people in other contexts
15:16:03 <tzviya> ack liisamk
15:16:12 <wendyreid> liisamk: I like this idea
15:16:23 <wendyreid> ... building a repository of information we can curate
15:16:28 <wendyreid> ... push people to share it more widely
15:16:29 <Ralph> present+ BillK, Cristina
15:16:38 <wendyreid> ... accessibility, if we have segments on specific issues
15:16:47 <wendyreid> ... why a11y is important for this region
15:16:53 <tzviya> q+
15:16:56 <wendyreid> ... it can be sent to many different stakeholders
15:17:00 <wendyreid> ... build more buy-in
15:17:06 <tzviya> ack Ralph
15:17:19 <wendyreid> Ralph: I like George's suggestion
15:17:23 <wendyreid> ... especially the reuse
15:17:32 <wendyreid> ... but we don't have interaction opportunities
15:17:51 <George> q+
15:18:09 <wendyreid> tzviya: I like this idea, my word of caution is that we'd need to make sure it doesn't date itself
15:18:22 <wendyreid> ... if I make a video about progress on testing
15:18:32 <wendyreid> ... we need something that can be used in 6 months
15:18:39 <wendyreid> ... capturing the approach vs the progress
15:18:40 <tzviya> ack tz
15:18:43 <tzviya> ack George
15:18:45 <wendyreid> George: That makes a lot of sense
15:18:48 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:19:01 <wendyreid> ... some of these videos we can be careful with the message
15:19:25 <wendyreid> ... the video I did with Thorium, I put the version everywhere, but I could do another without a version so as not to date it
15:19:32 <wendyreid> ... webinars are generally not that interactive
15:19:36 <wendyreid> ... I wonder if it might be fun
15:19:41 <wendyreid> ... to have a meeting where people can just talk
15:19:50 <wendyreid> ... ask questiosn to the community leaders
15:20:06 <wendyreid> ... let people just ask whatever they want
15:20:32 <wendyreid> tzviya: We do office hours with the AC
15:20:38 <tzviya> q?
15:20:39 <wendyreid> ... it's been successful
15:20:41 <tzviya> ack Ralph
15:20:49 <wendyreid> Ralph: Riffing on George's idea
15:21:03 <wendyreid> ... if we explicity invite people to an AMA/office hours sessions
15:21:08 <wendyreid> ... you can ask us anything
15:21:30 <wendyreid> ... it's great if we can make the content that is usable for a long time, but it shouldn't be a constraint
15:21:41 <wendyreid> ... if we have to do something that's specific, that's ok
15:21:50 <tzviya> ack Bill_Kasdorf
15:21:50 <wendyreid> tzviya: I will start a document where we can brainstorm ideas
15:22:00 <wendyreid> Bill_Kasdorf: I like both of these ideas, library and office hours
15:22:05 <wendyreid> ... I'm hearing two kinds of videos
15:22:08 <tzviya> https://docs.google.com/document/d/18TRgpBvXrvGOTll46uUEDFuD1H4-VWqoApatw4WTBZ8/edit?usp=sharing
15:22:09 <wendyreid> ... one updates
15:22:12 <wendyreid> ... other is tutorial
15:22:19 <wendyreid> ... the videos lend themselves to the latter
15:22:24 <wendyreid> ... the former will date themselves
15:22:33 <wendyreid> tzviya: I wasn't thinking tutorials
15:22:58 <wendyreid> ... I think we're talking about progress
15:23:02 <wendyreid> ... what we've done, what we plan to do
15:23:08 <George> q+
15:23:10 <liisamk> q+
15:23:14 <tzviya> ack r
15:23:18 <wendyreid> Bill_Kasdorf: It should be one or the other
15:23:52 <wendyreid> Ralph: The advantage of recording the updates, come back and it'll be efficient, it solves many of our issues, time zones, internationalization
15:23:57 <wendyreid> ... people can link to it
15:24:07 <tzviya> ack ge
15:24:24 <wendyreid> George: In the menu, on the business side, giving people a headsup for the EUAA
15:24:34 <wendyreid> ... people will find it very useful
15:24:42 <wendyreid> ... especially something that management can use
15:24:58 <wendyreid> ... CG updates and WG updates, all three areas sound good to me
15:24:58 <Ralph> +1 to George
15:25:16 <wendyreid> ... make it spreadsheet, then people can signup or recruit
15:25:26 <wendyreid> ... editing will be a challenge
15:26:00 <wendyreid> ... we use zoom to record, Richard has edited a few
15:26:10 <tzviya> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Jx5VvkMTQ4EL0Xfb3pDMDUiccq79mmIPHetSRfbziFM/edit?usp=sharing
15:26:53 <wendyreid> tzviya: Spreadsheet created, please populate
15:27:06 <wendyreid> ... other challenge will be where to host, communications
15:27:09 <liisamk> q+
15:27:22 <tzviya> ack liisamk
15:27:41 <wendyreid> liisamk: So doing this way takes the pressure off having a hard date to work towards, but do we have a soft date?
15:27:50 <wendyreid> tzviya: We did this in July last time?
15:28:12 <wendyreid> ... in general in July people are away, but maybe it's ok
15:28:25 <wendyreid> ... target having a list of videos by the next steerco
15:28:28 <wendyreid> ... recorded by june
15:29:02 <wendyreid> ... edited and published by July
15:29:12 <wendyreid> ... schedule our AMAs in July/August
15:29:15 <mateus> +1
15:29:18 <wendyreid> ... depending on calendars
15:29:20 <wendyreid> +1
15:29:22 <avneeshsingh> q+
15:29:31 <Cristina> q+
15:29:55 <liisamk> what is vacation?
15:30:29 <tzviya> ack avneeshsingh
15:30:52 <wendyreid> avneeshsingh: I was just thinking if we want to utilize the time of the content creators, isn't July a good time to record
15:31:06 <wendyreid> tzviya: Good point
15:32:13 <wendyreid> ... move the filming and editing to the summer, AMA to September
15:32:32 <wendyreid> ... shifting everything by one month
15:32:48 <tzviya> ack cr
15:32:51 <wendyreid> avneeshsingh: If vaccination speeds up, people might take time off
15:33:06 <wendyreid> Cristina: There's a need to provide guidelines to the people who make the video
15:33:42 <wendyreid> ... what we want to achieve, length, content, with slides or without
15:34:02 <wendyreid> ... editorial guidelines
15:34:56 <wendyreid> TOPIC, Global Participation in the CG
15:35:13 <wendyreid> tzviya: We know that Mateus and Zheng on finding an APAC friendly time
15:35:22 <wendyreid> ... and Karen and Bill are looking into membership
15:35:30 <wendyreid> ... increasing awareness and members
15:35:40 <wendyreid> ... first question, hows it going?
15:35:56 <wendyreid> mateus: Attendance in those meetings has not been good
15:36:00 <wendyreid> ... only one person
15:36:06 <wendyreid> ... it doesn't seem to be a timezone issues
15:36:17 <wendyreid> ... we did it specifically to allow for more participation
15:36:26 <wendyreid> ... it seems like a community engagement problem
15:36:36 <wendyreid> ... we've sent a few notes out to the groups
15:36:49 <wendyreid> ... it has not been easy to get people participating
15:36:53 <wendyreid> ... I've spoken with Karen
15:37:05 <wendyreid> ... she connected me with someone from Australia
15:37:42 <wendyreid> ... I've reached out
15:37:46 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:37:47 <wendyreid> ... so if anyone else has ideas
15:37:55 <wendyreid> ... we want more participation
15:38:06 <tzviya> ack Bill_Kasdorf
15:38:41 <wendyreid> Bill_Kasdorf: One thing we've found is the interest in AU is about accessibility
15:38:56 <wendyreid> ... Daihei is very involved in getting more membership and attention from Asia
15:39:01 <liisamk> q+
15:39:03 <wendyreid> ... working with him might be productive
15:39:05 <tzviya> ack liisamk
15:39:11 <Ralph> [Manisha Amin is our Eastern Australia W3C Evangelist -- she is the CEO of Centre for Inclusive Design]
15:39:29 <wendyreid> liisamk: Daihei and I are in the same place, I've been reaching out with my contacts as well
15:39:37 <wendyreid> ... Daihei has contacts in Taiwan and Korea
15:39:58 <wendyreid> ... we got a lot of participation in Japan
15:40:14 <wendyreid> ... we'd like to see beyond Japan
15:40:33 <mateus> q+
15:40:53 <wendyreid> tzviya: I know Zheng had made some efforts to contact people through the miniapps group
15:40:59 <tzviya> ack mateus
15:40:59 <wendyreid> mateus: I haven't heard anything back either
15:41:06 <wendyreid> ... thinking about this more
15:41:16 <wendyreid> ... there's a different between the business group and CG
15:41:40 <wendyreid> ... we have a number of task forces that might not be addressing problems these group aren't interested in
15:41:49 <wendyreid> ... but we don't know what they want without participation
15:42:02 <wendyreid> ... we can't generate work interesting to the community without the community
15:42:18 <wendyreid> ... if we can get 1 or 2 strong advocates from these places with ideas that are useful to them
15:42:25 <wendyreid> ... miniapps, etc
15:42:33 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to Mateus
15:42:42 <wendyreid> ... if we have a strong advocate like that, it'd produce engaging activity
15:42:56 <wendyreid> ... everything right now is quite "western"
15:43:05 <wendyreid> ... the publishing industry in NA/EU
15:43:18 <ivan> q+
15:43:20 <wendyreid> tzviya: We need to get involvement in the CG to get involvement elsewhere
15:43:31 <wendyreid> ... we need to get their involvement to capture their attention
15:43:53 <Ralph> i/present_/agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishing-sc/2021Apr/0001.html
15:43:55 <wendyreid> ... it's going to take research to figure out what people want
15:44:06 <Ralph> i|present_|agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishing-sc/2021Apr/0001.html|
15:44:13 <wendyreid> ... there's maybe some of that with accessible FXL
15:44:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/09-pbgsc-minutes.html Ralph
15:44:42 <wendyreid> ... maybe this is a conversation we need to have to tap certain members
15:44:56 <George> q+
15:44:58 <liisamk> q+
15:45:05 <Ralph> i/tzviya: Let's get started/topic: Planning a community webinar
15:45:23 <tzviya> ack ivan
15:45:34 <wendyreid> ivan: this miniapp idea could be interesting
15:45:40 <wendyreid> ... not sure how it would affect EPUB
15:45:41 <Ralph> s/TOPIC, Global/TOPIC: Global
15:45:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/09-pbgsc-minutes.html Ralph
15:46:03 <wendyreid> ... the person who leads the chinese team in W3C, she has been in a lot of meetings with me on publishing
15:46:13 <wendyreid> ... she actually knows a bit about EPUB and all of these
15:46:20 <wendyreid> ... she would be a good contact
15:46:45 <wendyreid> ... we also know people at Alibaba
15:46:58 <wendyreid> ... it's an interesting idea, it's certainly something to explore
15:47:00 <tzviya> ack ge
15:47:45 <wendyreid> George: I still think the notion of best practice collections and best way to do things on images or whatever is separate from Daisy KB or accessibility, but "how to get the job done" people would be interested in
15:47:53 <wendyreid> ... but we've never gotten it off the ground
15:48:16 <wendyreid> ... perhaps the CG could showcase one of the taskforce's work and let the TFs meet when it works for them
15:48:17 <tzviya> ack liisamk
15:48:35 <wendyreid> liisamk: One of the things we've been working on in the BG is the idea of FXL + reflow
15:48:39 <wendyreid> ... we've gotten interest
15:48:50 <wendyreid> ... we're talking about it again to build usecases
15:49:06 <wendyreid> q+
15:49:14 <wendyreid> ... I have colleagues building tests for this
15:49:19 <wendyreid> ... it works but not as expected
15:49:24 <wendyreid> ... getting to implementation
15:49:35 <wendyreid> ... a CG taskforce and participation from big retailers
15:49:45 <wendyreid> ... I've heard from big retailers that there's interest
15:49:51 <dauwhe> q?
15:49:56 <tzviya> ack wendyreid
15:49:58 <Ralph> scribe+
15:50:05 <Ralph> Wendy: glad that the BG is looking at this
15:50:21 <Ralph> ... it's also a topic being discussed in the FX Layout Accessibiility TF
15:50:41 <Ralph> ... let's work closely to avoid duplication of effort
15:50:56 <Garth> q+
15:51:02 <tzviya> ack Garth
15:51:06 <Ralph> ... the WG isn't making changes to the EPUB A11y spec but we should still coordinate
15:51:30 <wendyreid> Garth: FXL + flow, it's supported in the current spec, not as well implemented
15:51:44 <wendyreid> ... no spec changes, just RS support
15:51:55 <wendyreid> liisamk: Trying to get RS support and publisher support
15:52:14 <wendyreid> tzviya: And the WG is trying to make it accessible
15:52:23 <wendyreid> Garth: Sample content would be helpful
15:52:34 <wendyreid> tzviya: Last topci
15:52:40 <wendyreid> s/topci/topic
15:52:50 <wendyreid> ... George and I were in a WAI coordination call
15:53:13 <wendyreid> ... we were asked about some videos that EOWG was working on, and that there was enough represenation of the publishing community
15:53:22 <Ralph> topic: Review videos from WAI EO for publishing content
15:53:48 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Video-Based_Resources/WCAG_Requirements
15:53:55 <wendyreid> ... here's the list of requirements
15:54:03 <wendyreid> ... the most interesting part is
15:54:06 <tzviya> https://wai-wcag-videos.netlify.app/sc-1.3.2/
15:54:16 <wendyreid> ... this one was written with publishing in mind
15:54:42 <wendyreid> ... if we could get some volunteers to review this and the perspective of publishing is repped accordingly
15:54:57 <tzviya> log concerns at https://github.com/w3c/wai-wcag-videos/issues
15:55:06 <wendyreid> Ralph: George and Avneesh could recommend something
15:55:14 <wendyreid> George: This is asking us to jump in with EO's work
15:55:21 <wendyreid> ... I will take a look at what Shadi has done
15:55:34 <wendyreid> ... I imagine many of these videos pertain to publishing
15:55:41 <wendyreid> avneeshsingh: Do we have a deadline?
15:55:48 <wendyreid> George: They want feedback within a week
15:55:57 <wendyreid> ... final deadline is December
15:56:11 <dauwhe> q+ for an off-topic announcement
15:56:14 <wendyreid> tzviya: This is for WCAG 2 but will carry into WCAG 3
15:56:23 <tzviya> ack dauwhe
15:56:23 <Zakim> dauwhe, you wanted to discuss an off-topic announcement
15:56:25 <wendyreid> ... there may be gaps moreso than inaccuracies
15:56:53 <wendyreid> * collective cheering *
15:58:19 <wendyreid> avneeshsingh: I can reach out to the a11y TF
16:00:42 <Ralph> zakim, end meeting
16:00:42 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been tzviya, avneeshsingh, dauwhe, ivan, wendyreid, liisamk, George, Garth, Ralph, mateus, BillK, Cristina
16:00:44 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
16:00:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/09-pbgsc-minutes.html Zakim
16:00:47 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Ralph; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
16:00:51 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pbgsc
16:02:37 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
16:02:37 <RRSAgent> I see no action items