17:55:16 RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg 17:55:16 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/04/06-aria-apg-irc 17:55:24 rrsagent, make log public 17:55:36 MEETING: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force 17:55:43 CHAIR: Matt King 17:55:52 present+ 17:55:58 rrsagent, make minutes 17:55:58 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/06-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King 17:58:45 Present+ 17:59:49 MarkMccCrthy has joined #aria-apg 17:59:57 jongund has joined #aria-apg 18:00:07 MarkMcCarthy has joined #aria-apg 18:01:21 regrets+ carmacleod 18:01:40 sarah_higley has joined #aria-apg 18:04:51 present+ 18:05:35 jamesn has joined #aria-apg 18:05:44 present+ 18:05:47 CurtBellew has joined #aria-apg 18:06:01 siri has joined #aria-apg 18:06:32 scribe: jongund 18:07:16 MK: Let's get started 18:07:37 MK: Introducing James Scholes 18:07:38 present+ 18:08:08 JS: I am director of accessibility and working on test writing for aria-at project 18:08:19 MK: We need more discussion about the fan slider 18:08:38 MK: for the first, we have disclosure and checkboxes 18:08:46 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/April-6%2C-2021-Agenda 18:09:02 MK: Updated the pages with the review requests 18:09:26 MK: No meeting next week 18:09:58 MK: I will take some time in the next week 18:10:17 git hub issue 31814, #1802, #1801 18:10:19 MK: I hope to finish my reviews before I leave 18:10:32 s/31814/#1814 18:10:45 MM: I am at a conference this week, I can do next week 18:10:55 Siri: I can help 18:11:07 MK: You can use the time for this meeting next week 18:11:22 JK: I missed the last meeting about this topic 18:11:35 MK: We are going to do 1709 first 18:11:49 #1709 - code review by Sarah 18:11:56 MK: Sara said she could review, I just sent a request 18:12:13 MK: The documentation for the index does not seem to be in the wiki 18:12:30 MK: JG had some comments in the original pull request 18:12:58 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1709#issuecomment-814310037 18:13:15 MK: JG dig up information on the index and add it to the infrastructure wiki page 18:13:21 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/APG-Infrastructure 18:14:37 JG: Let's leave 1607 there for now 18:14:52 MK: It would be helpful to get this soon 18:15:00 SH: I can look at it after the meeting 18:16:03 "Jump to" feature to apg 18:16:27 PR #1635 18:16:30 MK: The jump to index code, you were going to update the menu 18:16:51 MK: Add to example.js will get it on any example 18:17:15 JG: I will add it to examples.js, that touches less files 18:17:23 Topic: Slider 18:17:28 TOPIC: Sliders 18:17:40 MK: Thermostat/fan slider example 18:17:47 MK: 1755 18:17:51 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1755 18:18:04 MK: I would like to summarize and JS can correct me 18:18:47 MK: In the first iteration we had off. low, medium and high were coded as buttons 18:19:12 MK: JG said the labels were clickable, like on a button 18:19:59 MK: Similar to how labels work in HTML, and touch interfaces allow touch to activate 18:20:05 James Scholes comment - https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1755#issuecomment-805166451 18:20:24 MK: But we maybe violating WCAG requirements 18:21:03 JS: WCAG is open to interpretation, basically our concern about using the labels for changing the value 18:21:48 JS: The other thing that happens, regardless the focus moves to the control if you click on a label 18:22:33 JS: HTML labels are one-to-one, and in this example there are four items that relate to a single component 18:22:50 JS: The labels are after, not before in the DOM 18:23:23 JS: There is an equity issue 18:23:31 q+ 18:23:54 SH: Why is difference between using HTML labels and these as labels, here is the same as HTML 18:25:07 JS: The issue I have, is SR fire focus, the slider receives focus, if I press enter on one of the labels, the slider already has focus, so the SR doesn't tell me it has focus 18:25:19 SH: Is that different than HTML 18:25:54 JS: In some cases the arrow is collapsed, so there is some reduction in the duplication 18:26:20 JS: The slider already has an accessible name and they are not the values 18:26:43 MK: The labels in the slider is they are identifying a value 18:27:04 MK: There is no state change value... 18:27:22 MK: Off, low, medium and high are labeling values, not the control 18:27:55 Siri: I can only change with the value with the mouse, not the keyboard 18:28:19 MK: A lot of people turn on or off clickable 18:28:35 MK: If you are using voice over on the mac, you may use touch 18:28:57 MK: The sighted SR user may see them and clide on them and expect to hear something useful 18:29:11 MK: it feels like there are several paths forward 18:29:30 MK: Maybe there are some SR expectation on value changes 18:29:59 MK: This is an anti-pattern, from an ARIA perspective, that it should be coded as a radio group 18:30:09 q? 18:30:13 KS: Or a select box 18:30:43 JS: The point that type range with aria-value text 18:31:01 MK: You can use this example with SR 18:31:17 JN: They have fixed it in Safari/VO 18:32:06 JN: in order to resolve this just change the clickable area on the rail 18:32:37 SH: I think radio is a better choice 18:32:56 +1 James 18:33:00 JNL It still looks like a slider, not a radio 18:33:27 MK: Do designers, do slider with values, or is this something we should dicourage 18:33:47 JS: Sliders are for ranges 18:34:04 JS: For example a range of dates 18:34:32 s/JNL It /JN: It 18:34:47 MK: You can't do medium and half, is this something that we should not be an example 18:35:03 SH: Something with valuetext is good 18:35:24 MK: When they are numbers they are awful 18:35:37 JS: This is an opportunity not to demonstrate 18:35:59 MK: ! hour 5 minutes, instead of 65 minutes 18:36:15 s/MK: ! h/MK: 1 h 18:36:19 SH: I like the minutes and seconds 18:36:30 JS: Chapters ion a pod cast 18:37:05 MK: As we are providing guidance, some patterns we provide information about when to use slider versus, radio versus spin button 18:37:27 MK: The temperature use valuetext? 18:37:35 JG: Yes it does 18:37:48 MK: It just adds a word to the end 18:38:08 SH: Remove the fan and add a time 18:39:03 MK: So we have three slider examples, first is the simplest, color picker, no value text 18:39:06 ack me 18:39:30 ML: We have this one, role is on g element and it uses valuetext 18:39:51 MK: The multithumb has aria orientation 18:40:14 MK: If we a e looking at a video slider scrubber, four examples is overkill 18:40:29 JS: If you have volume and seek 18:40:48 MKL Change to video player control from thermostat 18:41:01 MK: I don't think the SVG aspect... 18:41:25 MK: Maybe change to volume and play position, we could get past this 18:41:39 MK: I am still wondering about what JN said earlier 18:42:26 MK: If we don't have off, low, meidum and high example, are we causing a problem that when people do this they won't have a model, or write something about not doing this 18:42:35 JS: I would go for the second option 18:43:30 SH: I like the advice box 18:44:06 MK: We should change one o the radios to something that looks like a sider, but use radio 18:44:14 q+ 18:44:16 JS: That sounds great 18:45:07 MK: When you have a limited number of predefined values, we should not hide them 18:45:48 JS: They are information, we give you a huge number of values, and information on min and max, in this example the labels are the values 18:45:58 q? 18:46:05 JK: column bar and seek bar 18:46:47 JK: Muddy the water if something that looks like a slider, but is a radio button 18:46:58 JK: Maybe confusing to teach 18:47:22 JS: If people can choose between predefined values, slider is not a good choice 18:47:46 JS: radio is good for online surveys that are all over the web 18:48:14 JS: If the in between states do not apply it should be a radio button 18:48:22 JK: This is a slider example 18:50:19 JG: The proposal is to change example from thermostat to a volume, seek and a separete exampel for radio that looks like a slider, by modifying an existing example 18:51:03 SH: The example stars example with radio or slider 18:51:23 CB: That is a good example 18:51:35 JK: I want to make sure the example different 18:51:39 ack me 18:51:44 q? 18:51:44 JN: I am on the que 18:52:24 ack me 18:52:25 JN: Can we increase the hit area for the thermostat for changing the value 18:52:46 s/separete exampel /separate example 18:52:54 MK: So if we are going to change we should include the change 18:53:16 JN: The hit area needs increasing 18:53:37 MK: Instead of having two sliders, why not just one 18:54:53 JG: In this example one slider has a continous range and the other descrete values 18:55:43 s/continous /continuous 18:56:25 JG: regression test are often more code than the examples 18:56:55 SH: I can help with regression tests 18:57:04 SH: I have a code pen example 18:57:36 SH: There are images with half stars 18:58:02 Then it will become radio buttons 18:58:40 SH: I like the volume and seek control 18:59:10 JS: I am thinking have two example pages one for volume and seek 18:59:50 Siri: The radio for the stars will be confusing if you tab to it 19:00:33 JG: What is the visual accordance for sighted used for the rating examples 19:01:20 JG: What is the visual affordance? 19:02:00 MK: I like the example to differentiate function over form 19:02:39 Siri: How do you fill half a star with the mouse? 19:02:54 SH: That is a good question 19:03:12 rrsagent, draft minutes 19:03:12 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/06-aria-apg-minutes.html jongund 19:03:30 MK: We are over and we have not arrived a solution 19:03:49 MK: We need to have an issue where we continue this conversation 19:03:57 JS: I can create the issue 19:04:44 Resolution: James Scholes will complie the slider ideas and disucssion details in the github issue. 20:58:54 rrsagent, make minutes 20:58:54 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/06-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King 20:59:04 zakim, bye 20:59:04 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Matt_King, Jemma, sarah_higley, MarkMcCarthy, CurtBellew 20:59:04 Zakim has left #aria-apg 20:59:16 rrsagent, make minutes 20:59:16 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/06-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King 20:59:37 rrsagent, bye 20:59:37 I see no action items