W3C

– DRAFT –
PEWG

31 March 2021

Attendees

Present
liviu, mustaq, plh, smaug
Regrets
-
Chair
Patrick H. Lauke
Scribe
Patrick H. Lauke, Patrick_H_Lauke

Meeting minutes

Reword/expand touch-action definition #349 Think we're close to the finish on this one - would like to see if we can finalise this on the call.

https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/349

Patrick: [discussion around Olli's comment on "none" being unclear] wondering if we do need to be more explicit there in the definition, since straight after the definition list we have the paragraph about what touch-action does or doesn't cover

Patrick: but we could move that para *before* the definition list, less likely to be missed by a casual reader

Mustaq: yes that sounds like a good idea

https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/349.html#details-of-touch-action-values

Olli: yes, happy for the paragraph to be moved and to keep definition of none short as currently proposed

Patrick: i had further thoughts on this section as well https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/349#issuecomment-811092269

at the start of section 9 https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/349.html#declaring-candidate-regions-for-default-touch-behaviors

[discussion on the first part about unclear intro to section 9]

Mustaq: I can see what you mean now, you mentioned this before. Let's land this PR first and make this a separate PR

Patrick: agreed

Patrick: second concern is whether the second note in https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/349.html#declaring-candidate-regions-for-default-touch-behaviors which talks about "it's 'touch' but not just touch"

Mustaq: this is more related to your other PR

Patrick: yes, just wondering generally if this should be made normative rather than an informative note

Olli: does your other PR (#350) do this already?

Patrick: probably makes sense to look at this thought as part of the other PR

Action: Patrick to move paragraph explaining touch-action does not affect text selection/highlighting, link activation, etc *before* the definition list in section 9.3

Major refactoring: refer to "direct manipulation" rather than "touch" #350

https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/350

Patrick: not had a chance to look at this in much depth since last time, but one comment

https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/350#issuecomment-811094420

[discussion on using "direct manipulation *for* panning / zooming" to cover the concept better and bridge the gap between the two different views of what "direct manipulation" means (touchscreen-style panning/zooming/touching screen versus the "any GUI with a mouse" view of the term)]

[general agreement that the term like that is better, but concern that the spec itself may get too heavy-handed and difficult to read/understand]

Patrick: what i propose is that for next time, i'll make either a modification to PR 350, or a fresh PR, using this term and keeping it clear. moving "direct manipulation for panning/zooming" into a definition and try to avoid having to define it everywhere

Action: Patrick to either change PR 350 or supersede with a new one, incorporating the "direct manipulation *for* panning/zooming" concept

Click event while a pointer event is captured #75

https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/75

Patrick: just wanted to get a feel

Olli: surprised by Safari's behavior. was ready to make Gecko behave like Chrome, but now not sure why Safari is doing it differently

Patrick: Safari for scenario 2 behaves like Firefox, so both behave differently from Chrome

Liviu: just tested 2 in Chrome, and grey gets the click

Patrick: I propose that I spend some time documenting current state of Chrome, Firefox, Safari for all 4 scenarios, so we get a better picture of what the current state of play is / where the delta is. This issue was opened 2016, so the whole convo is a bit unwieldy to follow

Action: Patrick to document what current browser behaviors for the 4 tests actually is, to ease further discussion on #75

plh: do we have a test in WPT

mustaq: i think we have a test https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/174

<mustaq> https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/issues/3213

<liviu> https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/pull/4763/commits/960dbfabe0ed8b551b9c9e6f39c0e08a18b4c85d

plh: we should have test results, but maybe this is from a time before we had web driver support

mustaq: the test is manual, not an automated test

<mustaq> WPT result: https://wpt.fyi/results/pointerevents/pointerevent_click_during_capture.html?label=experimental&label=master&aligned

mustaq: actually, scratch that, test is automated

mustaq: so yes we have some issues there

Patrick: so either chromium needs to change (and we redefine what is correct), or gecko/webkit need to change

Olli: also differences in how capture is lost

mustaq: probably best to separate out those two concerns, easier to discuss

<mustaq> I suggest covering "click event target" through this issue...

<mustaq> and file a new issue for ordering of lostpointercapture.

Patrick: suggest closing this issue (from 2016 onwards) as it's a bit unwieldy. supersede it with a fresh issue. Olli do you mind doing that?

Olli: sure

Action: Olli to open new fresh issue for click event target issue once Patrick has documented table of current behaviors

Patrick: AOB?

Liviu: i opened a new issue https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/355

Mustaq: [explains at high level the issue of what happens/what's the order of events between frames. DOM/UI events spec may not handle this either]

<mustaq> https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#dispatching-events

Mustaq: don't think we can solve this in meeting today, but worth considering

<smaug> mustaq: ah, I see, release on move

Patrick: worth iterating over this in github, let's see what where we land for next meeting

Patrick: in meantime, I'll be working/reworking #350, and merge #349 after moving the paragraph before the definition list as discussed

Summary of action items

  1. Patrick to move paragraph explaining touch-action does not affect text selection/highlighting, link activation, etc *before* the definition list in section 9.3
  2. Patrick to either change PR 350 or supersede with a new one, incorporating the "direct manipulation *for* panning/zooming" concept
  3. Patrick to document what current browser behaviors for the 4 tests actually is, to ease further discussion on #75
  4. Olli to open new fresh issue for click event target issue once Patrick has documented table of current behaviors
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 127 (Wed Dec 30 17:39:58 2020 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/web drivers/web driver support

No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: Patrick_H_Lauke

Maybe present: Olli, Patrick