14:02:02 RRSAgent has joined #pwe 14:02:02 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/03/30-pwe-irc 14:02:05 RRSAgent, make logs Public 14:02:06 Meeting: Positive Work Environment CG 14:02:12 [confusion about the actual time of today's meeting] 14:02:40 agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pwe/2021Mar/0006.html 14:02:48 sheila has joined #PWE 14:03:05 [Liz acknowledges the timezone confusion; she intended this time, though that's not what her email said] 14:03:58 present: Liz_Lutgendorff, Sheila_Moussavi, Judy_Brewer, Ada_Rose_Cannon, Léone_Watson, Nishad_Thalhath, JaEun(Jemma)_Ku, Keith_Jones, Ralph_Swick 14:04:20 scribe+ 14:04:37 present+ Jeff_Jaffe 14:04:38 present+ Léonie (tink) 14:04:39 BarbH has joined #PWE 14:04:44 topic: Progress on updating the reading list 14:04:46 jeff has joined #pwe 14:04:49 preesnt+ 14:04:58 Tink: Jemma has been working on adding some tools to our repo 14:05:00 Judy has joined #pwe 14:05:10 Jemma: yes; I worked on the group library 14:05:29 present+ Barbara_Hochgesang 14:05:56 present+ Judy 14:05:57 Jemma: there is a library named "W3C PWE" with subcategories Awareness and Resources for Implementation 14:06:05 present+ Keith 14:06:18 ... in Zotero 14:06:27 present+ Tobie_Langel 14:06:47 Agenda+ Update on the survey 14:06:47 Agenda+ Update on TPAC diversity fund work 14:06:47 Agenda+ Discussion on job description for Ombudsman role 14:06:48 Agenda+ AOB 14:06:54 https://www.zotero.org/groups/2864452/w3c_pwe/library 14:06:58 chaals has joined #pwe 14:07:30 q? 14:07:37 ... I migrated the GitHub [reading] resources to here 14:07:50 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:07:50 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/30-pwe-minutes.html chaals 14:07:54 present+ 14:07:56 ... Tzviya, Liz, and Léonie are also admins for this library 14:08:18 ... Tzviya and I reviewed the accessibilty of the tool 14:08:34 éonie: sorry; I have the email but haven't yet had a chance to look at it 14:08:54 Jemma: you can click any web resource to add it to the group library 14:09:12 ... you choose the subcategory 14:09:12 q+ 14:09:44 Judy: looking at the agenda, I was able to peek at Zotero 14:09:54 ... thanks, Jemma, for doing the Zotero magic 14:10:07 ... it looks like the readings and references have been reorganized 14:10:15 ... I'm wondering what else we can do with it 14:10:42 ... maybe for the next meeting we could ask people to look through the compiled readings and discuss whether these are the right resources to carry through our work 14:10:54 ... and also whether we might be able to select any resources to talk about in more depth 14:11:10 ... I'd love to see what more we can do with the reading list 14:11:23 +Q 14:11:29 Liz: given that it's a big list, I imagine we could review it over time 14:11:47 ... and incrementally improve it 14:12:00 Léonie: makes sense to review it in chunks 14:12:19 ... Lola was instrumental in putting together the list so we should reach out to her as well 14:12:38 Liz: maybe once a month or every two months we review a selected set of readings 14:12:42 ack judy 14:12:51 ... decide if they're useful and what else people might have found 14:13:36 Barbara: I like the list and agree with breaking it up to make it more manageable 14:14:01 ... we could take a topic, find our favorite articles or books, and communicate that to the community to make it more interesting to read 14:14:17 ... we've also been talking about making Diversity cultural; something that the AC needs to do 14:14:24 ... and some type of Call to Action 14:14:42 ... unless there is some mechanism to talk about it it tends to stay on our to-do lists 14:14:50 ... some way to make it actionable 14:15:10 ... either in discussion or for chairs to bring up in one of their working group meetings to discuss 14:15:19 ... extra credit if there are times where there are themes 14:15:32 ... e.g. this past month was International Women's Month 14:15:47 ... we could dovetail off some activity, celebrating women in W3C 14:15:52 ... or some LGBT activity 14:16:01 ... some highlights of celebrations there 14:16:07 q? 14:16:08 q+ 14:16:33 Judy: if we want to add to the list, how do we do that? 14:16:57 Jemma: [Zotero] members have permission to add resources to the library 14:17:01 Judy: without curation? 14:17:09 Jemma: yes; just become a member of the group 14:17:14 ack ju 14:17:37 ... we could agree, for example, that Barbara can become a member of the library and then she can add resources 14:17:52 ... Tzviya might choose to approve library members 14:18:23 Léonie: you can also send to one of the four of us and we can take it from there 14:18:36 Jemma: Zotero can export in multiiple formats 14:18:43 lutgendorff has joined #pwe 14:19:00 ... we're thinking that maybe we can dynamically update GitHub 14:19:17 ... it can also import other libraries 14:19:25 ... as CSV, JSON, Bibtex 14:19:32 ... XML, and even Evernote 14:19:55 Thank you Jemma. 14:20:06 thanks Jemma! 14:20:08 scribenick tink 14:20:08 [Ralph departs] 14:20:14 scribenick: tink 14:20:25 scribenick: chaals 14:20:38 LJW: We talked about how we can understand the makeup of the community we have 14:20:48 … conversation was turning toward holding a survey. 14:21:22 … The idea emerged that we should not just ask about diversity but expand to find out other things about our community - how many front-end developers / product managers / etc do we have? 14:21:43 … Talk about using questions from Stack Overflow… 14:22:17 Tobie: I was involved with OpenJS and W3C wondering about the same set of questions, and someone brought StackOverflow's set of questions. 14:22:23 tink: We want to know more about our community and at the last call talked about a survey of W3C participants 14:22:24 … Should I share them on the mailing list? 14:22:46 ACTION: Tobie to share stack overflow's demographics questions. 14:22:46 Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel. 14:22:48 ... We thought that the survey should not just ask about diversity, but also about other aspects of our community 14:22:58 ... Like geo-location, job title etc. 14:24:16 Tobie: They are a nicely phrased set of questions. When we discussed them in openJS, including with attorneys, we were concerned about handling the data. We looked for 3rd party to do so, and the numbers were far too expensive. 14:24:45 … Talked to people I know, and got more reasonable figures (under 5000 moneys) 14:24:53 q+ to comment on surveys 14:25:17 … Trying to organise a meeting between people in this group and in OpenJS who are looking at the same things. 14:25:54 … Important is that if we go through the hassle of a survey, it makes sense to ask more questions including what we can usefully do. 14:26:46 LJW: If we define and host questions, maybe NoMensa can help. They have experience in managing user research and diversity. (But they cannot design the survey for us). 14:26:58 … They can check the questions to see if tehy are well-framed. 14:27:27 Jeff: +1 to have asurvey. Gives us some data, which is helpful to energise people. 14:27:32 s/tehy/they 14:28:00 … Bigger +1 to use the survey to find out ideas about what would make us more inclusive. 14:28:19 +1 to @Tobie's suggestion that the survey ask for suggestions on how we can improve our diversity. 14:28:34 q? 14:28:38 … Could be a primary deiverable. I hope we don't slow down effort waiting for the outcomes of the survey - we already know there are significant problems on many diversity axes. 14:28:42 ack je 14:28:42 jeff, you wanted to comment on surveys 14:29:05 Liz: Who would pay the 5k? 14:29:19 +q 14:29:32 LJW: W3C, or members contribute, or we ask to spend some of the TPAC diversity fund 14:29:41 JJ: I would support any of those options. 14:29:59 [chaals: I am not sure this is a fair use of the TPAC fund] 14:30:19 … I imagine W3C could find that itself. 14:30:43 [fair enough, Chaals, as a minimum we would need to ask the donors.] 14:30:59 Barb: Sensitivity that isn't 100% diversity. Think this is an opportunity to find out what members like about, want from, or don't expect from W3C. 14:31:21 … So you can set the tone on making W3C more open, including diversity but also structures, etc... 14:31:43 … Then you ca slice data based on demographics. E.g. how many people in Asia want to be in meetings at 2.30 am 14:32:08 … Like the idea of synergising with another group, to get more breadth. 14:32:18 ack bar 14:32:36 … You are probably familiar with how stack overflow categorises developers. 14:32:59 … Who participates in development of specs, and who is a user of the spec? These are different groups... 14:33:38 q+ 14:33:42 Liz: We do a survey on people with a braod range of questions, and it is annual - that is important. Being able to track the changes matters 14:34:20 … if we get it right the first time that is good, so you get a longitudinal data set. 14:35:16 WendyS: Often a series of data is more valuable than a one-off survey. I would caution against reading too much into a specific survey, and instead look at the change. 14:35:32 Liz: Sounds positive… 14:35:37 ack me 14:35:55 Topic: Chat 14:36:01 q+ 14:36:20 q+ 14:36:27 Liz: Will try to pull people together and get a process for people to be engaged through groups, through twitter, … 14:36:45 q+ 14:36:50 q- later 14:37:02 regrets+ torgo 14:37:07 … Think we have a discussion about using the fund retroactively. We have a fair bit of money, and we can plan knowing in advance if money raised is for next year. 14:37:25 … But haven't yet done anything. Anyone want to help 14:38:01 WendyS: I offered to help figure out funding from Team perspective - how we can use the diversity fund for a virtual meeting. 14:38:18 … noted some stuff in the issue. Have we had more conversation about where spending is most useful. 14:38:40 … Offer honoraria, help participants, … 14:39:12 Liz: Yeah, was going to think about it and come back with some thoughts. Last meeting nobody volunteered to take this on. 14:39:20 … So that would be helpful. 14:39:23 ack we 14:39:27 q- 14:39:28 ack wse 14:39:33 ack je 14:40:06 Jeff: Wanted to put timing into the discussion. TPAC is 6 months away, but these things sneak up and we haven't been able to do things as we wanted for timing issues. 14:40:20 q+ 14:40:25 q? 14:40:36 … We need to figure out what we are doing before we ask for money, if we are going to do that. The process has lots of steps, so it would be good to get moving. 14:41:18 s/figure out funding/work with TPAC diversity funding/ 14:41:23 Liz: Idea was to use exiating funds for this year, and the callout would be for money now to be spent next year. We might amend reasons... 14:41:58 … But having it lined up to go, with money collected the previous year, might make that a lot easier. 14:42:21 … Bug challenge is always getting the message out 14:42:39 q? 14:42:56 ack tink 14:43:09 LJW: +1 to getting a plan we can re-use. A regular timetable makes things simpler to do. 14:43:34 s/Topic: Chat/Topic: TPAC diversity funding 14:44:09 … one thing that has always been a problem is getting money to recipients, so being able to work from last year's money as an ongoing process will simplify a lot of that. 14:44:26 s/recipients/recipients because of a lack of time 14:44:34 ack ju 14:45:10 JudyB: Once we know what kind of funding we want to support, need to make sure accounts are set up properly to do that - last year we couldn't, and that was a problem. 14:45:17 q? 14:45:25 Liz: An account is another thing to make regular. 14:45:45 … please let me know if you want to read what I am going to write. 14:45:52 [chaals would like to read it] 14:46:12 … Who can apply, what is the process, for granting, …? 14:46:54 … We have a fund in our org, and we find it is good to have a process that streamlines the decisions. 14:47:39 … Drop me a line if you have thoughts. 14:48:02 agenda? 14:48:02 q+ 14:48:10 … Probably will send this after the next meeting, in time for the following one. 14:48:55 WendyS: Should we use the fund by identifying people and topics and solicit participation, instead of an open application process? 14:49:40 … Can we seek people for topics we know are generally not presented? 14:49:57 Liz: We can use it to help people particpate or to fill the gaps 14:50:57 LJW: Last year we included some information on ways the fund might be used. Applicants last year were not participants in the community, asked for assistance with equipment funding. 14:51:43 Topic: Ombuds description 14:52:08 Judy: This is actually going to be about Ombuds' tasks 14:52:17 * There is a list of action items on the PWE Roadmap: https://github.com/w3c/PWETF/wiki/PWE-Roadmap 14:52:17 * The first section is "Ombuds Program," and the first item is: "Confirm current MIT (possibly other hosts) Ombuds, and ensure that role is limited but not eliminated." 14:52:18 * Ralph and I discussed propose the following language for the MIT portion (wording is from MIT): "The MIT Institute Discrimination and Harassment Response (IDHR) Office [1] is available to "all members of the MIT community ... and anyone impacted by someone in the MIT community."" 14:52:19 [1] http://idhr.mit.edu/ 14:52:21 * Still need to check with the other three W3C hosts. Question if people have input: Placement of this language could be: https://www.w3.org/Consortium/pwe/#Procedures ; or a new section on ""Ombuds Resources provided by the W3C Hosts" 14:53:28 q+ 14:53:35 q+ 14:54:52 q- 14:55:01 ack je 14:55:44 Jeff: MIT offices are limited in what they do. Language in IRC didn't clarify the limitations, and I don't want to set wrong expectations. 14:56:02 Judy: Do you have a suggestion? 14:56:55 Jeff: You would know better, but if an MIT staff violates MIT policy they are more likely to be involved than if a non-affiiliated member of the community did so. The latter describes most of our community. 14:56:57 q+ to (after sheila) suggest a way to address that 14:57:08 ack sh 14:57:28 q+ sheila 14:58:10 ack ju 14:58:10 Judy, you wanted to (after sheila) suggest a way to address that 14:58:12 Judy: A way to address this would be to describe the different affiliations, so people can interpret correctly. I can take that back to Ralph and come back with fresh language 14:59:05 [JB will take the concern back to discuss updated language with Ralph] 14:59:06 Jeff: W3C's setup applies to everyone in W3C community. MIT's help is basically limited to issues touching the people that they employ - about a dozen out of thousands. 14:59:47 scribe: judy 14:59:55 https://github.com/w3c/PWETF/blob/main/DraftOmbudsJobDescription.md 15:00:01 Sheila: Talked to Tzviya about a job descripiton for ombuds, shared at last meeting, and hope to get feedback in time for next meeting. 15:00:37 Liz: This is likely to be discussed often. 15:00:41 [meeting adjourned] 15:01:02 RRSagent, draft minutes 15:01:02 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/30-pwe-minutes.html chaals 15:01:35 rrsagent, make minutes 15:01:35 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/30-pwe-minutes.html tink