17:23:54 RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg 17:23:54 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/03/23-aria-apg-irc 17:23:56 RRSAgent, make logs Public 17:23:57 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Jemma 17:24:36 Meeting:ARIA-APG 17:49:45 Matt_King has joined #aria-apg 17:50:19 MEETING: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force 17:50:30 CHAIR: Matt King 17:50:37 rrsagent, make log public 17:50:48 present+ 17:50:53 rrsagent, make minutes 17:50:53 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/23-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King 18:00:06 siri has joined #aria-apg 18:02:34 agenda+ slider PRs 18:02:52 agenda+ revisit accordion behaviors on demo page 18:03:08 agenda+ removing the collapsible list box 18:03:31 s/list box/list box example 18:03:45 agenda+ ARIA 1.3 First Working Draft Prep 18:03:49 agenda? 18:04:48 MarkMccarthy has joined #aria-apg 18:04:51 present+ 18:04:57 present+ 18:05:27 sarah_higley has joined #aria-apg 18:05:30 present+ 18:05:51 scribe: Jemma and Shiri 18:05:56 jongund has joined #aria-apg 18:06:28 s/Shiri/Siri 18:06:42 zakim, take up agenda item 1 18:06:42 'item\ 1' does not match any agenda item, Jemma 18:06:49 zakim, next 18:06:49 I don't understand 'next', Jemma 18:06:57 zakim, take up next 18:06:57 agendum 1 -- slider PRs -- taken up [from Jemma] 18:07:17 present+ jongund 18:07:53 PR 1755 and PR 1758 18:08:47 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1755 18:09:09 carmacleod has joined #aria-apg 18:09:16 present+ 18:09:27 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1755#issuecomment-804358631 18:09:36 present+ curtis 18:09:51 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1755#issuecomment-804971422 18:10:08 present+ Jamesn 18:10:33 have a concern about aria hidden mentioned by Jscholes 18:10:53 sarah: Matt's concern makes sense 18:11:13 +1 to Matt 18:13:15 CurtBellew has joined #aria-apg 18:13:44 like for decorative glyhs 18:13:56 present+ 18:14:23 It is recognized by JAWS/chrome too 18:16:01 jon: what is role =none vs aria=hidden? 18:16:39 jamesn: we usally use aria hidden for svg 18:16:56 car: I also recomend the same thing. 18:17:23 I don't think so 18:17:41 car: I think there should be text of label 18:19:21 mck: we will take off aria hidden 18:19:37 jon:another issue is HCM 18:20:13 mck: the approach jon took sounds reasonable. 18:20:48 Chrome HCM won't work until there is addons 18:21:41 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1755#issuecomment-801678207 18:23:26 siri: i remember HCM being discussed before, i think Chrome was getting the color from elsewhere, it might need a gradient to help it 18:23:51 Matt_King: siri, you mean to determine if HCM is on? 18:23:52 siri: yes 18:24:02 Matt_King: that's an older, hacky way if you don't have a media query 18:24:10 jamesn: we do have a query that works on chrome and edge 18:24:29 jongund: that's a separate setting from HCM with windows 18:25:03 jamesn: you could try canvas text, that provide s the same thing as text color, i'll add a blog post with the information 18:25:09 https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2020/09/17/styling-for-windows-high-contrast-with-new-standards-for-forced-colors/ 18:25:22 sarah_higley: i also figured out why everything's black - the parent of the SVG is a div with color:black 18:25:31 sarah_higley: the current color is inherting from color:black 18:25:49 jongund: it has to inhert from somewhere, otherwise there's no way to have current color 18:26:12 sarah_higley: it'd use the color of the page if nothing is set? HCM should be overriding that though, you're right 18:26:20 jongund: it does in firefox but chome behaves differently 18:26:23 scribe: MarkMccarthy 18:26:47 jongund: forced colors, is that widely supported now? 18:27:12 jamesn: works in windows in edge, i presume chrome (haven't tested HCM in chrome for a while). doesn't do anything in firefox for now, but if it doesn, great! 18:27:28 jongund: so canvas text is like current color, canvas is like background color? 18:27:44 jamesn: canvas is the main thing, canvas color is whatever the text color is 18:28:08 jongund: this looks like it might be better than what we're doing now... 18:28:38 sarah_higley: i wonder if the change that broke it is SVG getting forced-color:none from the UA stylesheet. changing to forced-color:auto seems to fix it 18:29:37 jongund: okay, so it looks like if we override _that_ then we shouldn't have to do anything else? 18:29:44 jamesn: yep, windows will take care of it then 18:29:47 jongund: i'll try that! 18:29:56 jamesn: don't even need a media query, so it might be simpler 18:30:04 Matt_King: sounds like we have a great option to try! 18:30:25 Matt_King: isn't this just quite the learning experience?? 18:30:34 jongund: i'm getting too old for all this learning! 18:31:17 Matt_King: so that and the aria-hidden things are the only outstanding concerns, so we're getting close i think! 18:31:24 jongund: do we need to mention that in the a11y features? 18:31:40 Matt_King: maybe we'll have a note about that, or link to what sarah's writing 18:31:44 Matt_King: should we? 18:32:26 MarkMccarthy: why not share what we learned? 18:32:28 Matt_King: right 18:32:37 jongund: the example continues! 18:32:39 Matt_King: another chapter! 18:33:22 Matt_King: so the only other one immediately affected is the two tumb slider right? 18:33:37 jongund: the one we just merged probably has that problem too, since this change to chrome is so new 18:33:39 carmacleod: right 18:34:18 jongund: we've got lots of SVG examples that will be broken, but if this works, i can go back and make new PRs for each thing affected (that I worked on) 18:34:33 sarah_higley: i'm gonna raise an issue on edge too, i don't think this is great behavior 18:35:01 sarah_higley: HCM is such a weird thing already, so making people remember to put this :auto on everything to make it work isn't aweome 18:35:06 s/aweome/awesome 18:35:38 sarah_higley: when it's using current color it should refer to the parent, and if the parent is adjusted the current should adjust too 18:36:38 present+ Zoey 18:36:44 jamesn: there could be some heuristics applied too, but that might be out of our purview 18:36:57 s/zoey/zoe 18:37:27 carmacleod: a quick note on the multithumb, on chrome it has that auto-alt-image annoucement 18:37:51 carmacleod: that's on the parent so you can't aria-hidden, but using role=none makes that bit go away. just making sure that's the right thing to do? 18:38:06 Matt_King: i think so. it definitely fixed the problem here, so probably 18:38:09 zakim, next item 18:38:09 agendum 2 -- revisit accordion behaviors on demo page -- taken up [from Jemma] 18:38:27 zakim, take up next 18:38:27 agendum 2 was just opened, siri 18:40:56 [aside discussion about zoom transcripts - resuming item 2 shortly] 18:44:00 https://github.com/w3c/Guide/pull/122 18:45:18 Issue #1819 18:45:52 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1819 18:45:52 sara: explaining the issue 1819 18:46:45 Moving series of steps which our example won't show it. 18:47:30 sara: having button being disabled, Jaws test feeled it it as weired 18:48:16 Matt: Like how Sara did for disclosure nav menu and have optional key behaviour 18:48:39 agenda? 18:49:06 Sara: Don't know when to have arrow keys 18:50:21 I Matt: Fine to remove arrow keys from the pattern as they are not for screen reader user any way. Looking for simplicity 18:50:52 Matt: We can have arrow keys as optional but not having an example of it 18:51:49 Sara: Favor of removing it out of functional example and making it as optional 18:52:42 Matt: Byran had it in default as we want to demonstrate the aria-disabled behaviour 18:53:36 Car: As the accordion example is not step related we can remove arrow. 18:53:53 +1 to James having two issue 18:54:01 s/two issue/two issues 18:54:20 scribe: Mark and Shiri 18:54:41 +1 for removing arrow key from Zoe 18:54:58 James: Getting rid of arrow keys will resolve the Sarah issue and we can open other bug to address another issue 18:55:08 present+ 18:55:20 Car: thinks to have both in the same PR 18:56:10 Matt: Does any one like default behavior to force one accordion to be opened all time 18:57:05 Sarah: Can also remove forcing to open an accordion and add a checkbox for another varient 18:57:55 Sarah: will fix the default one and will create another example for forced opening of an accordion 18:59:29 RRSAgent, make minutes 18:59:29 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/23-aria-apg-minutes.html MarkMccarthy