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11:57:12 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/03/18-wot-irc
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12:01:12 <kaz> scribenick: McCool
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12:02:16 <kaz> Meeting: WoT-IG/WG vF2F Meeting in March - Day 3
12:02:51 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Dave_Raggett, Ege_Korkan, Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_Lagally, Michael_McCool, Philipp_Blum
12:03:21 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot
12:03:36 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner
12:03:55 <kaz> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_March_2021#Thursday_March_18
12:04:41 <McCool> presentations will be uploaded after the session to https://github.com/w3c/wot/tree/main/PRESENTATIONS/2021-03-online-f2f
12:04:47 <dape> dape has joined #wot
12:05:24 <McCool> use cases repo is here, issue numbers will be relative to this repo if not fully qualified: https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases
12:05:42 <kaz> topic: Opening
12:05:54 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2021-03-online-f2f/2021-03-18-WoT-F2F-Opening-McCool.pdf Opening slides
12:06:12 <McCool> today will mainly discuss use cases; only a 2h session
12:06:23 <kaz> i/Presentations/topic: Preliminary/
12:06:26 <cris> cris has joined #wot
12:06:51 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot
12:07:06 <McCool> seb: mccool to take minutes the first hour, raggett the second hour
12:07:19 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi, Ege_Korkan, Michael_Koster, Tetsushi_Matsuda, Tomoaki_Mizushima
12:07:25 <McCool> seb: (presents opening slides, reviews agenda)
12:07:25 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
12:07:31 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:07:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/18-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:08:11 <matsuda> matsuda has joined #wot
12:08:19 <McCool> mmccool: no guests today, all IG members
12:08:29 <kaz> topic: Use Cases and Requirements
12:08:44 <McCool> ml: start by reviewing process
12:09:11 <kaz> i/start by/[slides tbd@@@]/
12:09:13 <McCool> ... then I will present and walk through the current Use Cases and Requirements document
12:09:36 <McCool> ... which we plan to publish in two weeks
12:10:44 <McCool> we also have an ITU-T topic, but have to shift to next Monday due to avaliability
12:10:59 <kaz> s/we also/... we also/
12:11:19 <McCool> note that we plan to have a resolution to publish on April 7, this is a review of the candidate draft.  Has been stable for a while, but seeking input before publication
12:11:20 <kaz> Chair: Sebastian/McCool
12:11:28 <kaz> s/note that/... note that/
12:11:36 <ryuichi> ryuichi has joined #wot
12:11:43 <McCool> ... there has also been some cleanup, including commenting out sections that were incomplete
12:12:20 <McCool> ml: objective of UC IG TF is to collect use cases and identify requirements, including collecting use cases from other SDOs
12:12:33 <McCool> ... and also collaborate with other TFs on requirements
12:12:39 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner, Philip_Tran
12:12:53 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:12:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/18-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:12:59 <McCool> ml: process is as followed
12:13:37 <McCool> ... collect use cases proposals, have a shortlist to filter contributions (although most have been high quality and have been accepted), then identify gaps, etc.
12:13:42 <kaz> i/presentations will be/topic: Preliminary/
12:13:45 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:13:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/18-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:13:59 <McCool> ... eventually analysis of use cases should result in a set of requirements for other TFs
12:14:04 <kaz> q?
12:14:08 <Ege> Ege has joined #wot
12:14:37 <McCool> ml: we don't have a strong formalism on use case description; have focused on getting input rather than being formal
12:14:43 <McCool> ... so want to keep the barrier low
12:14:47 <kaz> present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura
12:15:03 <McCool> ... have a simple MD template, although eventually need HTML; Kaz created a convertor
12:15:18 <McCool> ... github repo is here: https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases
12:15:34 <dezell> dezell has joined #wot
12:15:44 <dezell> present+ David_Ezell
12:15:46 <McCool> ... under USE-CASES, usecases that have been incorporated into the document are under "processed"
12:16:06 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:16:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/18-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:16:07 <McCool> ... we also have some guidance as to appropriate terms to use, for instance, to refer to stakeholders
12:16:15 <McCool> ... these are given in the template
12:16:52 <McCool> ml: (walks through template)
12:17:09 <McCool> ... there is both a requirements and a use cases template
12:17:35 <McCool> ... we also need eventually to distinguish between "horizontal" and "vertical" use cases
12:18:13 <McCool> ml: note introduced i8n requirements late, still not much content there
12:18:33 <McCool> ml: driven by contributions
12:19:08 <kaz> q+
12:19:49 <sebastian> q+
12:20:27 <McCool> mm: suggest that we see if we can get wide review... i8n and privacy, although we have talked to accessibility
12:20:41 <kaz> ack k
12:21:08 <McCool> kaz: wide review is for normative docs
12:21:17 <McCool> mm: understood, but at least we can ask
12:21:42 <McCool> seb: nice if we can have a todo-list, especially for topics that are not covered yet
12:22:03 <kaz> s/docs/docs, though it would be useful to get early feedback from them if possible/
12:22:05 <McCool> ... e.g. opc-ua, automotive, etc... so we know what's expected
12:22:17 <McCool> ml: we collect these in issues, I have attached labels
12:22:38 <McCool> ... did try to make a guess at which ones we may be able to finalize
12:22:48 <McCool> ... but we are also dependent on contributions
12:23:01 <McCool> ml: although I just noticed there is no issue
12:23:06 <McCool> seb: there is a PR though
12:23:42 <McCool> ml: while we are talking PRs, there are a couple that should go into the current document
12:24:20 <McCool> ml: can create OPC-UA issue, can you be owner?
12:24:37 <McCool> seb: yes, but we may also have other contributors to Shaeffler
12:24:46 <McCool> ... no specific name however
12:25:47 <McCool> ml: note that requirements was moved from architecture to usecases, so if you see an old link to architecture note that they have been moved to use cases
12:25:54 <McCool> ... and will be in that document
12:26:46 <McCool> mm: reiterate that the doc is "Use Cases and Requirements" and will be informative
12:27:17 <McCool> ml: let me review the structure of the actual document
12:27:43 <McCool> ... first talk about application domains and the purpose of collecting use cases from various domains
12:28:28 <McCool> ... by the way, looking at the doc in PR  https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/pull/114
12:28:59 <McCool> ... this PR removes empty sections left over from template but not filled in; just commented out, however
12:30:05 <McCool> ... some things have been labelled differently or renamed
12:30:21 <kaz> q+
12:30:48 <McCool> ... also removed affiliation of people with companies, W3C policy clarification need
12:31:20 <McCool> kaz: did talk to legal team about affiliations, esp for non-members
12:31:51 <dezell> q+
12:32:24 <sebastian> ack s
12:32:43 <McCool> mm: I think we should raise this with W3M directly and ask to put affilliations in, since the purpose of UCs is to collect external input
12:33:44 <McCool> ... and what if this was considered a CG document?
12:35:25 <kaz> ack k
12:35:31 <McCool> kaz: ok to put all the affiliations down in the acknowledgements, however
12:36:36 <McCool> de: there is a strong connection to market, and while sensitive to issues of company promotion, but in this case the company affiliations are in fact very important for marketing reasons; "in good company"
12:37:07 <McCool> ml: my personal take is that no-one reads appendices
12:37:19 <McCool> mm: ok, let's do another round with Wendy S.
12:37:57 <McCool> ml: going back to the doc, did not delete anything except a total duplicate section
12:38:26 <McCool> ... also took out some editorial notes about "add something here", instead we have issues for this now
12:39:08 <McCool> ... some of these todo are still in comments, however
12:39:28 <kaz> s/esp for non-members/esp for non-members. first, we can include use case contributions from non-Members into the use cases doc. second, we should not mention the non-Member companies' name within the use case description because authorship of the W3C TR is entitled for the W3C Members. third, however, we still can acknowledge their work mentioning their name and affiliation within the Acknowledge section./
12:42:40 <McCool> mm: just wanted to clarify that main use case should be simple and concrete and raise a requirement; please put variations under "variants" rather than complicating the main use caes
12:42:48 <McCool> s/caes/case/
12:43:08 <McCool> ml: should also mention in many cases we just have placeholders for references but the details need to be filled in
12:43:13 <McCool> ... but this is just homework
12:44:00 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:44:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/18-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:44:30 <McCool> ml: let's now look at the document; note that terminology is pulled entirely from Architecture
12:45:21 <kaz> i/start by reviewing process/subtopic: Process/
12:46:24 <McCool> mm: should stakeholders be terminlogy?
12:46:38 <kaz> s/stakeholders/"stakeholders"/
12:46:45 <McCool> ml: hard to make consistent, and also openended, prefer to keep those terms informal
12:47:00 <McCool> ml: then we have vertical, domain-specific use cases
12:47:47 <McCool> .. then have "horizontal" use cases that span multiple industries
12:49:25 <kaz> i|going back to the doc|-> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-usecases/pull/114.html#sec-vertical-ucs Preview of PR 114 - 4. Domain specific Use Cases|
12:52:12 <McCool> mm: VR/AR maybe belongs under Smart City, and 5.6.2 maybe belongs under 4.10.2... smart home vertical
12:53:31 <kaz> q+
12:54:15 <kaz> ack d
12:54:34 <McCool> ml: please make a PR
12:54:36 <McCool> mm: ok
12:54:54 <McCool> ml: also "target users" -> "target stakeholders"... everywhere?
12:58:01 <kaz> kaz: @@
12:58:06 <McCool> mm: propose that we do some cleanup on the VR/AR topic (possibly splitting it up into a vertical and a horizontal use case) AFTER the proposed publication
12:58:11 <kaz> ack k
12:58:22 <McCool> q+
12:58:22 <kaz> q+ mm
12:58:30 <kaz> ack m
12:58:34 <kaz> ack m
12:59:57 <kaz> s|@@|as one of the authors of the VR/AR use case, I believe this should be kept within the horizontal use cases, though we can add some more additional use cases or descriptions under the domain-specific use cases like smart city./
13:01:07 <kaz> i/let me review the structure/subtopic: Document status/
13:01:14 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:01:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/18-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:01:53 <kaz> i/as one of the/scribenick: kaz/
13:02:05 <kaz> i/propose that/scribenick: McCool/
13:02:07 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:02:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/18-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:04:18 <kaz> q+
13:04:56 <McCool> mm: maybe we could add horizontal/vertical tags?
13:05:11 <McCool> ml: that's what we had before, would rather not revert at this point
13:06:27 <McCool> q?
13:07:00 <kaz> ack k
13:07:32 <kaz> kaz: @@
13:07:51 <McCool> kaz: really just need a process where we collect use cases and then capture requirements; whether the use case is horizontal or vertical does not matter so much
13:08:06 <kaz> s/kaz: @@//
13:09:29 <McCool> ml: note that under REQUIREMENTS there are a set of additional contributions that have not yet been merged; and the current document is relatively light
13:10:05 <kaz> i|note that|-> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-usecases/pull/114.html#requirements PR 114 Preview - 6. Requirements|
13:10:24 <McCool> mm: should we be merging some of these?  Discovery has been around for a while, for example
13:10:52 <McCool> ml: don't think we can merge this now.
13:11:07 <McCool> mm: agree, too much extra content to deal with now
13:11:08 <kaz> i|note that|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/tree/main/REQUIREMENTS REQUIREMENTS area on the wot-usecases repo|
13:11:56 <McCool> ml: also, acknowledgements should not be 6.3 but a new section or appendix; editorial change
13:12:41 <McCool> q?
13:13:33 <McCool> proposal: merge PR114 https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-usecases/pull/114.html for template cleanup
13:14:03 <McCool> proposal: merge PR114 https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-usecases/pull/114.html for "Remove template leftovers"
13:14:29 <mlagally_> mlagally_ has joined #wot
13:14:29 <kaz> s|proposal: merge PR114 https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-usecases/pull/114.html for template cleanup||
13:14:32 <mlagally_> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/pull/114
13:14:42 <McCool> proposal: merge PR114 https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/pull/114 for "Remove template leftovers"
13:14:54 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:14:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/18-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:15:18 <McCool> resolution: merge PR114 https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/pull/114 for "Remove template leftovers"
13:15:26 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:15:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/18-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:15:39 <McCool> ml: there is another pull request that is on top of this one that adds a liaison chapter
13:16:11 <McCool> ml: add a section on liaisons
13:16:33 <kaz> i/there is another/subtopic: PR 117/
13:16:36 <McCool> q+
13:17:09 <kaz> q+
13:17:12 <kaz> ack m
13:17:59 <McCool> mm: we should add at least Conexxus and IETF
13:18:06 <McCool> kaz: and also OGC
13:18:13 <kaz> ack k
13:18:42 <dezell> Conexxus is working on a WoT POC demo for our Annual Conference the week of April 26.
13:19:04 <kaz> i|there is another|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/pull/117 PR 117 - Add liaisons|
13:19:07 <kaz> q+
13:19:12 <McCool> ml: feel uncomfortable about joint activity in the document
13:20:56 <McCool> seb: I think just mentioning that there is a liaison
13:21:27 <McCool> ... am fine with the current text, but can also point to existing liaison
13:22:00 <McCool> ... can add link
13:24:09 <McCool> ml: David, can you provide a PR on Conexxus?
13:24:12 <mlagally_> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/pull/117
13:24:29 <McCool> de: ok, can do
13:25:11 <kaz> -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-usecases/pull/117.html#liaisons Preview of 7. Liaisons
13:25:42 <kaz> s/Preview of 7. Liaisons/Preview of proposed section "7. Liaisons"/
13:26:40 <kaz> q?
13:27:16 <McCool> ml: let's then keep the PR open, work on it
13:27:42 <McCool> mm: let's to an email call and point to this PR as well as the main
13:28:47 <McCool> ... but email on the liaison PR can wait until a week before
13:29:18 <McCool> kaz: have two questions
13:30:30 <McCool> ... would like to understand main intention of this section; already contributed, or future?
13:30:40 <McCool> ... IEC, ECHONET, ECLASS are in second category
13:31:37 <kaz> https://www.w3.org/2001/11/StdLiaison
13:31:40 <McCool> ... second, there is an official table, and we should link to other press releases too
13:31:55 <kaz> s|https://www.w3.org/2001/11/StdLiaison||
13:31:58 <McCool> mm: is fairness a problem?  If we link to one press release, should be link to them all?
13:32:07 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2001/11/StdLiaison W3C liaison table
13:32:23 <McCool> ml: there is an issue for really old things?
13:33:01 <kaz> s/official table/official table and we can mention that/
13:33:11 <kaz> s/and we/but we/
13:33:18 <McCool> mm: either we point to a table, or have a cutoff date
13:33:36 <kaz> s/releases too/releases too if we include one for one SDO/
13:33:38 <McCool> ml: would rather have them in the doc then in a table somewhere else (so cutoff date approach ok)
13:33:49 <sebastian> q+
13:33:54 <kaz> ack k
13:34:13 <kaz> ask s
13:34:38 <McCool> seb: we need an overview of liaisons... is something that should be on the marketing TF task
13:34:46 <McCool> ml: yes, let's discuss in the marketing call
13:34:55 <McCool> ml: ok, let's look at the issues now
13:35:21 <McCool> ml: automotive use case https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/issues/111
13:35:39 <McCool> ... is there someone who can contribute on this?
13:35:58 <kaz> q+
13:35:59 <McCool> seb: Daniel Wilms is our contact at BMW
13:36:06 <kaz> ack s
13:36:42 <McCool> kaz: BMW have also been participating in workshops, etc.
13:37:51 <McCool> kaz: BK was also the original author of the VSSo
13:38:29 <McCool> ml: closing issue about deleting sections no one uses
13:38:41 <kaz> ack k
13:38:53 <McCool> ml: next https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/issues/108
13:39:12 <kaz> s/VSSo/VSSo. so I think Benjamin might be working with Daniel./
13:39:16 <McCool> mizushima: this is an old issue and should have been closed
13:39:23 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:39:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/18-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:40:16 <kaz> i/ok, let's look at the issues/topic: Issue 111/
13:40:20 <kaz> s|ask s|
13:40:48 <sebastian> q+
13:41:14 <kaz> i|ok, let's look|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/issues/111 Issue 111 - Automotive Use Case based on VSSo|
13:41:45 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:41:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/18-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:41:58 <McCool> ml: for now... will label it wontfix, will remove it in a month
13:42:29 <McCool> seb: agree in general that in manufacturing we should list standards
13:43:18 <kaz> i|next https|topic: Issue 108|
13:43:44 <McCool> ... but other use cases don't
13:43:47 <kaz> i|next https|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/issues/108 Issue 108 - Finalize the section 4.6.3 of Manufacturing|
13:43:57 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:43:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/18-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:44:37 <McCool> mm: I would ask sebastian to provide a list for manufacturing...
13:44:52 <McCool> ml: ok, will remove wontfix, will assign sebastian
13:45:18 <kaz> topic: Issue 107
13:45:48 <McCool> ml: propose closing, have fixed in PR we just
13:45:55 <McCool> s/just/just merged/
13:45:59 <McCool> ml: (closes issue)
13:46:31 <kaz> i|propose|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/issues/107 Issue 107 - Finalize the section 4.6.2 of Manufacturing|
13:46:37 <McCool> topic: Issue 107
13:46:56 <McCool> s/Issue 107/Issue 105/
13:47:29 <McCool> s/Issue 105/Issue 106/
13:47:53 <McCool> ml: Mizushima, can you take this issue?
13:47:53 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/issues/106 Issue 106 - Finalize the section 4.6.1 of Manufacturing|
13:48:14 <McCool> mizushima: yes, I can look at it, but it seems the section was moved
13:48:28 <McCool> topic: Issue 105
13:49:04 <McCool> ml: number has changed to 4.6.1.2
13:50:42 <kaz> -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-usecases/index.html#MedicalDevices 4.6.1.2 Interconnected medical devices in a hospital ICU
13:51:11 <kaz> i|number|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/issues/105 Issue 105 - Finalize the section 4.5.1.2 of Health use case|
13:51:12 <McCool> mm: (proposed some text, added into the issue)
13:51:46 <McCool> mizushima: proposed by taki, should it be checked by matsukura-san
13:51:50 <kaz> q+
13:52:45 <McCool> ml: will assign it to both of you, please handle offline
13:53:10 <kaz> https://w3c.github.io/wot-usecases/index.html#MedicalDevices
13:55:09 <McCool> mm: note we might have missing sections in some use cases if they are old and those sections where added to the template later
13:55:11 <McCool> q?
13:55:48 <McCool> ml: will send an email then to all use case contributors
13:55:50 <McCool> q+
13:55:56 <kaz> ack k
13:55:59 <McCool> ack s
13:56:20 <McCool> ack m
13:56:37 <mlagally_> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22needs+owner%22
13:57:00 <kaz> i/note we/kaz: think Mizushima-san meant there were several subsections within several use cases (when he generated his issues)/
13:57:10 <McCool> ml: since we are almost out of time, I would just add at this point for people to look at the issues and call for contributors
13:57:49 <McCool> ml: probably still have significant editorial work
13:58:01 <kaz> i/https/topic: Wrap-up/
13:58:07 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:58:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/18-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:58:25 <McCool> topic: wrapup
13:58:53 <kaz> s/Wrap-up/Call for review again/
13:58:53 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:58:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/18-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:58:55 <McCool> seb: monday will be arch and profiles
14:00:46 <kaz> s/profiles/profiles, plus ITU-T use case discussion at the beginning/
14:03:19 <kaz> seb: please upload your slides beforehand to: https://github.com/w3c/wot/tree/main/PRESENTATIONS/2021-03-online-f2f
14:03:35 <kaz> seb: thanks a lot, and talk to you again on Monday!
14:03:38 <kaz> [adjourned]
14:03:41 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:03:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/18-wot-minutes.html kaz
14:05:00 <kaz> s/topic: Use Cases and Requirements/topic: Use Cases and Requirements IG Note/
14:05:50 <kaz> i/think Mizushima-san meant/scribenick: kaz/
14:05:58 <kaz> i/note we might have/scribenick: McCool/
14:06:14 <kaz> i/please upload your/scribenick: kaz/
14:06:17 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:06:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/18-wot-minutes.html kaz
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