IRC log of apa on 2021-03-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:42:07 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/03/17-apa-irc
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RRSAgent, make logs public
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Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
15:42:11 [trackbot]
Date: 17 March 2021
15:42:15 [janina]
agenda?
15:42:22 [janina]
Chair: Janina
15:42:22 [janina]
agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
15:42:22 [janina]
agenda+ Task Force Updates: COGA -- Lisa
15:42:22 [janina]
agenda+ Task Force Updates: Other TF
15:42:22 [janina]
agenda+ FAST Progress
15:42:24 [janina]
agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22
15:42:27 [janina]
agenda+ Horizontal Review Issues Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
15:42:30 [janina]
agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
15:42:33 [janina]
agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open
15:42:35 [janina]
agenda+ APA Manifest Comment Response https://github.com/w3c/manifest-app-info/issues/29
15:42:38 [janina]
agenda+ Other Business
15:42:41 [janina]
agenda+ be done
15:44:32 [janina]
regrets: Christos, Amy, Gottfried
15:56:58 [Fazio_]
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15:57:37 [LisaSeemanKest]
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15:59:42 [JPaton]
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16:00:06 [paul_grenier]
present+
16:00:21 [JPaton]
present+ John_Paton
16:00:51 [Fazio_]
present+
16:01:37 [IanPouncey]
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16:01:51 [IanPouncey]
present+
16:02:08 [FredrikFischer]
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16:02:14 [FredrikFischer]
present+
16:02:56 [FredrikFischer]
Hi everyone! Still out of a mic (working on that...). Hope you're all well.
16:03:09 [LisaSeemanKest]
david take a look at https://www.w3.org/2020/10/TPAC/apa-personalization.html
16:03:35 [FredrikFischer]
Welcome Lionel!
16:03:41 [janina]
present+
16:04:01 [IrfanA]
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16:04:01 [LisaSeemanKest]
present+
16:04:06 [IrfanA]
present+
16:04:09 [becky]
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16:04:18 [becky]
present+
16:04:36 [Lionel_Wolberger]
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16:04:44 [Lionel_Wolberger]
scribe: Lionel_Wolberger
16:04:52 [Lionel_Wolberger]
zakim, next item
16:04:52 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]
16:05:10 [Lionel_Wolberger]
janina: Some add'l items
16:05:24 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... responses to an APA comment that resulted in a seperate agendum
16:05:48 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... Lisa Seeman, a co-facilitator is here to kick start "content useable"
16:05:59 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... any additions to agenda?
16:06:13 [janina]
https://www.w3.org/groups/
16:06:29 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... a new calendaring tool is available
16:06:52 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... integrates with Google Calendar and Outlook
16:07:22 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... at some point we should review the a11y of this tool
16:07:35 [JonnyJames]
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16:07:39 [JonnyJames]
present+
16:08:28 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Lionel_Wolberger: points out, this "groups" link does not show calendar
16:08:49 [Lionel_Wolberger]
paul_grenier: Under working groups are accordions, under accordions there is a calendar tab, took some digging.
16:08:56 [Lionel_Wolberger]
janina: It's new
16:09:11 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... in beta
16:10:10 [JF]
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16:10:19 [JF]
Present+
16:10:20 [Lionel_Wolberger]
becky: login, look on left hand side of the profile page, there is a my calendar section
16:11:00 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... you can start there
16:11:23 [Lionel_Wolberger]
zakim, next item
16:11:23 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Task Force Updates: COGA -- Lisa -- taken up [from janina]
16:11:39 [Lionel_Wolberger]
janina: Welcome, Lisa
16:11:48 [LisaSeemanKest]
https://raw.githack.com/w3c/coga/consistency_checks/content-usable/index.html
16:12:04 [Lionel_Wolberger]
LisaSeemanKest: COGA is asking to publish "Making Content Usable for People with Cognitive and Learning Disabilities"
16:12:10 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... this is a note, not a specification
16:12:31 [Fazio_]
q+
16:12:31 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... scenario: I've got a website and I want to include people with cognitive and learning disabilities
16:12:35 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... this document will help
16:14:05 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... not intended for legal compliance assessment, but meant as an actionable document
16:14:33 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... started by looking at research into an array of very different disabilities (learning, cognitive, intellectual, early stages of dementia)
16:14:50 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... a lot of this research was behind paywalls, so we had assistance from University personnel
16:15:32 [JF]
I'm love, love, LOVING the pesonas: https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#persona
16:16:18 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... asking APA to publish this as a note
16:16:27 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... might be a version 2 in future
16:16:39 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... that would include mental health, artificial intelligence
16:16:59 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... impact of different languages (feedback from i18n)
16:17:35 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... next version would include co-morbidity (when a person has two problems)
16:17:56 [Lionel_Wolberger]
janina: lets not allow the perfect ot be the enemy of the good-enough
16:18:11 [Lionel_Wolberger]
LisaSeemanKest: We may have some proofreading needed, editorial review
16:18:47 [LisaSeemanKest]
q?
16:18:51 [Lionel_Wolberger]
janina: there will be a call for consensus in the next hour
16:19:17 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Lionel_Wolberger: (sees some funny characters on this line, to "œthe driver's side" or "œthe East Wing".)
16:19:57 [LisaSeemanKest]
yes, that is what we were talking about
16:20:02 [Lionel_Wolberger]
q+
16:20:26 [janina]
q?
16:20:32 [MichaelC]
q+ to say AG CfC delayed, best to do in parallel
16:20:57 [Lionel_Wolberger]
JF: Super +1 to including the personas
16:21:00 [becky]
+1 on JF comment on the great personas
16:21:19 [janina]
ack df
16:21:34 [janina]
ack faz
16:21:51 [Lionel_Wolberger]
davidfazio: this is very useful to functional needs
16:22:21 [joconnor]
present+
16:22:24 [JF]
Q+
16:22:29 [janina]
ack li
16:22:30 [joconnor]
Also congrats on the personas
16:22:33 [janina]
ack mi
16:22:33 [Zakim]
MichaelC, you wanted to say AG CfC delayed, best to do in parallel
16:22:51 [Lionel_Wolberger]
MichaelC: The AG call for consensus is going to be delayed, so APA CFC may need to be held off
16:23:21 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Lionel_Wolberger: (asks davidfazio-- what is your handle in this IRC chat?)
16:23:43 [janina]
ack jf
16:23:51 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Lionel_Wolberger: Fazio_ : I see Fazio now, ignore.
16:24:14 [paul_grenier]
q+
16:24:45 [Lionel_Wolberger]
JF: Personas are so helpful to bring people gently to "things they dont know", they break down barriers
16:25:11 [FredrikFischer]
+1 on the personas. Brilliant!
16:25:16 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Fazio_: I have seen these personas taken up already, so they are helping.
16:25:50 [Lionel_Wolberger]
janina: Personas are particularly important when disabilities are "hidden"
16:27:24 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Lionel_Wolberger: We have sought out a PTSD persona, and found it hard to find, partially because the vulnerable population itself often denies having the issue
16:27:40 [Lionel_Wolberger]
LisaSeemanKest: A lot of people hide COGA-related disabilities, particularly at work
16:27:49 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... cultural issues are relevant
16:28:00 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Lionel_Wolberger: shout out to becky , can you take over scribing
16:28:03 [Lionel_Wolberger]
present+
16:28:07 [becky]
scribe: becky
16:28:27 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Lionel_Wolberger: thanks Becky! see y'all soon
16:28:58 [janina]
q?
16:29:01 [janina]
ack p
16:29:14 [LisaSeemanKest]
q+
16:29:26 [paul_grenier]
ack paul_grenier
16:29:33 [janina]
ack li
16:30:02 [FredrikFischer]
I'd also like to submit myself for COGA consideration if possible.
16:30:02 [becky]
paul_grenier: just a reminder that sleep deprivation and other "common" issues does affect mental health
16:30:33 [janina]
q?
16:30:46 [becky]
LisaSeemanKest : yes there is an overlap
16:31:14 [becky]
janina : there will be a cfc soon
16:31:22 [becky]
zakim, next item
16:31:22 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Task Force Updates: Other TF -- taken up [from janina]
16:31:50 [becky]
janina : anything from other task forces? ... nothing heard so moving forward
16:31:56 [becky]
zakim, close this item
16:31:56 [Zakim]
agendum 3 closed
16:31:57 [Zakim]
I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:31:57 [Zakim]
4. FAST Progress [from janina]
16:32:03 [becky]
zakim, next item
16:32:03 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- FAST Progress -- taken up [from janina]
16:33:20 [becky]
MichaelC : Silver TF restarted functional task force, looking at user needs, Josh has updated list of user needs at a high level - will cycle through the functional tf and then back to silver
16:33:48 [becky]
MichaelC : for feedback before encorporating into FAST
16:33:53 [becky]
zakim, next item
16:33:53 [Zakim]
agendum 5 -- New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 -- taken up [from janina]
16:34:27 [becky]
MichaelC : no new charters this week
16:34:27 [becky]
zakim, close this item
16:34:27 [Zakim]
agendum 5 closed
16:34:28 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:34:28 [Zakim]
6. Horizontal Review Issues Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review [from janina]
16:34:31 [becky]
zakim, next item
16:34:31 [Zakim]
agendum 6 -- Horizontal Review Issues Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from janina]
16:34:58 [MichaelC]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/CSP3/ Content Security Policy Level 3
16:35:12 [becky]
MichaelC : Content security policy level 3; there is an old action to ask them if this affect bookmarklets
16:35:30 [becky]
becky : I believe I was supposed do that and have not done
16:36:08 [Fazio]
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16:36:09 [becky]
MichaelC : image resource - JF has an action on this one
16:36:28 [becky]
MichaelC : indexed data API 3.0
16:36:33 [MichaelC]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/IndexedDB-3/ Indexed Database API 3.0
16:37:04 [becky]
MichaelC :defines apis of a database of apis of key value pairs; dev uses api to search fo db entries
16:37:18 [becky]
Janina: no objections to signing off
16:37:23 [MichaelC]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/post-spectre-webdev/ Post-Spectre Web Development
16:38:03 [becky]
MichaelC: Need to adopt new strategies for threat model for detecting and addressing threats
16:38:28 [becky]
paul_grenier : spectre is threat detection
16:39:20 [becky]
MichaelC : believe it is lower level after a skim read and don't believe we need to worry about
16:40:04 [becky]
paul_grenier : yes, this is lower level, don't believe we need to worry
16:40:27 [becky]
this last was new on TR - now moving to HR
16:41:15 [MichaelC]
https://github.com/w3c/silver/issues/474
16:41:19 [MichaelC]
https://github.com/w3c/silver/issues/475
16:41:24 [MichaelC]
https://github.com/w3c/silver/issues/476
16:41:31 [becky]
MichaelC : issues about meetings; were discussed these at RQTF
16:42:28 [becky]
MichaelC : if we track these, we could hold up WCAG 3 moving forward until we respond
16:42:41 [becky]
janina : expect a quick resolution within weeks via RQTF
16:43:03 [becky]
MichaelC : will need to circle back when we have a response to the above
16:43:06 [MichaelC]
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5983
16:43:19 [becky]
MichaelC : CSS fonts - advance override details
16:44:42 [becky]
ian: I looked at this last week; No concerns from me, has to do with font shaping at the font level; nothing will override user preferences; it adds additional ways of displaying fonts
16:45:13 [becky]
janina : want to consider further; reference at silver call to bbc research into the usability of fonts
16:46:18 [LisaSeemanKest]
q+
16:46:47 [becky]
IanPouncey : more result presented at conf. last week - result was there is no really best guidance - everything is individualized; this spec doesn't override any set user preferences
16:46:53 [JF]
I believe the 'expert' Janina is referencing is Bruno Maag, Typeface Designer at Dalton Maag, who did work for BBC, and as Ian notes, continues to do so
16:47:57 [becky]
MichaelC : just recently CSS decided to drop the advanced override feature, are we still okay with that
16:48:02 [janina]
ack l
16:49:43 [becky]
LisaSeemanKest : people have used extension to put your own css on the page; I think we want to promote user preferences - these can make the page more readable for the person;
16:49:59 [Fazio_]
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16:50:05 [LisaSeemanKest]
q+
16:50:28 [becky]
ian: this just allows an adjustment at the font level - you can still make font adjustments via user preferences
16:51:28 [becky]
IanPouncey : this override is not about user preferences, it is overriding the settings within a font definition
16:52:39 [becky]
Janina: want to defer further discussion on the override user preference - this doesn't seem to be the specification. for that
16:52:39 [Fazio_]
+1
16:53:18 [becky]
LisaSeemanKest : need to be aware of movement when font is changed
16:53:28 [janina]
q?
16:53:45 [janina]
ack li
16:54:07 [becky]
IanPouncey : that is not part of this spec.
16:54:28 [becky]
Janina: okay to pass on this
16:54:28 [becky]
zakim, next item
16:54:28 [Zakim]
agendum 7 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from janina]
16:54:44 [becky]
TR was taken up above under horizontal review
16:54:50 [becky]
zakim, close this item
16:54:50 [Zakim]
agendum 7 closed
16:54:51 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:54:51 [Zakim]
8. Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open [from janina]
16:54:54 [becky]
zakim, next item
16:54:54 [Zakim]
agendum 8 -- Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open -- taken up [from janina]
16:55:20 [becky]
janina : John F from last week #2284
16:55:30 [becky]
JF: no action this week
16:56:58 [becky]
JF: the notion of label has been introduced within the image - rather than alt; we need to make sure that label info is included into the a11y tree
16:57:06 [becky]
zakim, next item
16:57:06 [Zakim]
agendum 9 -- APA Manifest Comment Response https://github.com/w3c/manifest-app-info/issues/29 -- taken up [from janina]
16:57:25 [JF]
scribe: JF
16:57:58 [JF]
becky: we had a comment with a CfC that Paul did for Web Manifest
16:58:40 [JF]
we've received a response and they have a pull request for our first issue, but they are "on the fence" on the second issue
16:58:59 [JF]
not sure we want an actual "description" field
16:59:29 [JF]
PG: the label = the Accessible Name, but we also need the ability for an Accessible Description
16:59:54 [JF]
so perhaps we can clarify the comment for a clearer response
17:00:06 [becky]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:00:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/17-apa-minutes.html becky
17:00:15 [JF]
ACTION: Paul G to follow up on the response to https://github.com/w3c/manifest-app-info/issues/29
17:00:15 [trackbot]
'Paul' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., paulbohman, pgrenier).
17:00:32 [FredrikFischer]
Thanks everyone, scribes aplenty anbd the rest! All the best from Vienna. See you!
17:00:40 [JF]
ACTION on paul_grenier to follow up on the response to https://github.com/w3c/manifest-app-info/issues/29
17:00:40 [trackbot]
Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/users>.
17:01:24 [becky]
zakim, end meeting
17:01:26 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been paul_grenier, John_Paton, Fazio_, IanPouncey, FredrikFischer, janina, LisaSeemanKest, IrfanA, becky, JonnyJames, JF, joconnor,
17:01:26 [Zakim]
... Lionel_Wolberger
17:01:27 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:01:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/17-apa-minutes.html Zakim
17:01:29 [Zakim]
I am happy to have been of service, becky; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
17:01:33 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #apa
17:02:28 [becky]
rrsagent, bye
17:02:28 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2021/03/17-apa-actions.rdf :
17:02:28 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Paul G to follow up on the response to https://github.com/w3c/manifest-app-info/issues/29 [1]
17:02:28 [RRSAgent]
recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/03/17-apa-irc#T17-00-15