IRC log of pbg on 2021-02-23
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:49:54 [RRSAgent]
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- 16:49:54 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/02/23-pbg-irc
- 16:50:05 [Zakim]
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- 16:58:31 [MattNelsonWaPo]
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- 16:58:37 [Ralph]
- zakim, start meeting
- 16:58:38 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, make logs Public
- 16:58:38 [Zakim]
- Meeting: Publishing Business Group
- 16:59:00 [Ralph]
- present: Jeanne_Spellman, Liisa, Tzviya, Dale_Rogers, Ralph
- 16:59:13 [wolfgang]
- present+ wolfgang
- 16:59:31 [Dan_Sanicola]
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- 16:59:37 [avneeshsingh]
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- 16:59:50 [wendyreid]
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- 16:59:57 [avneeshsingh]
- present+
- 17:00:04 [wendyreid]
- present+
- 17:00:11 [jeanne]
- http://bit.ly/3onBM1T
- 17:00:27 [liisamk]
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- 17:00:36 [liisamk]
- present+
- 17:00:43 [jeanne]
- present+ JeanneSpellman
- 17:03:33 [AlexGrover]
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- 17:04:54 [BenSchroeter_]
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- 17:05:17 [Ralph]
- https://mit.zoom.us/j/98974538152
- 17:05:26 [George]
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- 17:05:26 [BenSchroeter_]
- present+
- 17:05:44 [Ralph]
- s|https://mit.zoom.us/j/98974538152||
- 17:05:48 [BenSchroeter_]
- have to jump at bottom og the hour
- 17:05:51 [tzviya]
- zakim, pick a scribe
- 17:05:51 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose BenSchroeter_
- 17:06:11 [tzviya]
- zakim, pick a scribe
- 17:06:11 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose liisamk
- 17:06:32 [ivan]
- present+
- 17:06:44 [wendyreid]
- scribe+
- 17:07:02 [wendyreid]
- tzviya: Does anyone have any objections to being recorded?
- 17:07:12 [wendyreid]
- ... No objections, we'll begin recording
- 17:07:35 [wendyreid]
- [Jeanne's presentation is transcribed, so will copy into minutes]
- 17:09:06 [wendyreid]
- Presentation Slides: http://bit.ly/3onBM1T
- 17:10:01 [AlexGrover]
- present+
- 17:14:49 [LeslieHulse]
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- 17:15:11 [George]
- present+
- 17:15:31 [dauwhe]
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- 17:21:45 [MattChan]
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- 17:36:36 [George_]
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- 17:38:59 [CharlesL]
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- 17:40:34 [wendyreid]
- jeanne: Any questions?
- 17:40:40 [wendyreid]
- tzviya: Thank you, that was informative
- 17:40:57 [wendyreid]
- ... tiny comment, EPUB is spelled with all caps
- 17:41:11 [wendyreid]
- ... will send in an official comment
- 17:41:32 [wendyreid]
- jeanne: I have a question for you all
- 17:41:53 [wendyreid]
- ... I would like this group to consider how we would include your work
- 17:41:54 [George_]
- q+
- 17:42:08 [wendyreid]
- ... would you like to draft your own, or loan some people to us to draft guidelines
- 17:42:18 [wendyreid]
- ... it's time for us to have more external guidelines
- 17:43:02 [wendyreid]
- marisa: I saw mentioned somewhere "disability categories" is it on the roadmap for these guidelines to talk about these, and how do they intersect with the outcomes?
- 17:43:08 [wendyreid]
- jeanne: That is a great question
- 17:43:16 [wendyreid]
- ... they come from a group working on functional needs
- 17:43:24 [wendyreid]
- ... they took all of the major category documentation
- 17:43:32 [wendyreid]
- ... started working on combining them
- 17:43:44 [wendyreid]
- ... as part of that they have intersectional disabilities as a category
- 17:43:52 [wendyreid]
- ... physical/sensory, etc
- 17:44:00 [wendyreid]
- ... they've included those categories on the list
- 17:44:14 [CharlesL]
- q+
- 17:44:22 [wendyreid]
- ... we plan to make that available to all W3C to use as a reference for other guidelines
- 17:44:32 [Ralph]
- q+ Marisa
- 17:44:34 [wendyreid]
- ... got a lot of attention from other groups interested in this
- 17:44:51 [dale]
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- 17:45:07 [jeanne]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eJkgXqbh7dx3uD6XAy8XAANmwfbbVZ5GKb_gbsUdkVs/
- 17:45:16 [liisamk]
- q+
- 17:45:23 [tzviya]
- ack George_
- 17:45:32 [wendyreid]
- George_: Great presentation and thanks for the hard work
- 17:45:38 [wendyreid]
- ... is Matt (Garrish) on your team
- 17:45:52 [wendyreid]
- jeanne: I think he has commented on a few things, but he's not a regular participant
- 17:46:09 [wendyreid]
- George_: The first comment is that what we've done for accessibility for EPUB (thanks for including)
- 17:46:17 [Garth]
- q?
- 17:46:19 [wendyreid]
- ... we're in good shape in terms of conforming to this version
- 17:46:27 [wendyreid]
- ... I'm delighted to see how many things we're aligned on
- 17:46:38 [wendyreid]
- ... the ACE a11y checker for epub aligns as well
- 17:46:49 [tzviya]
- Published today https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/8923
- 17:46:55 [wendyreid]
- ... we provide automated testing and tips for manual review
- 17:47:14 [wendyreid]
- ... I've talked with a couple of people about the SMART tool we have
- 17:47:23 [wendyreid]
- ... it's a great way to evaluate publications
- 17:47:28 [wendyreid]
- ... structures and walks users through
- 17:47:40 [wendyreid]
- ... I do have a question about bronze, silver, and gold
- 17:47:47 [wendyreid]
- ... if bronze is equal to AA
- 17:48:07 [wendyreid]
- ... but it seems to be less than what companies might strive for, but still seems good
- 17:48:20 [wendyreid]
- jeanne: At the risk of talking about something we don't have consensus on
- 17:48:36 [wendyreid]
- ... what came out of the design sprint, bronze, like wcag 2, is like a snapshot
- 17:48:44 [wendyreid]
- ... it doesn't serve a11y as well as it could
- 17:48:55 [wendyreid]
- ... if people were building it in by design as part of development
- 17:49:01 [wendyreid]
- ... we think they should get more points for that
- 17:49:23 [wendyreid]
- ... silver should be inclusive design, usability testing, assistive tech testing
- 17:49:43 [avneeshsingh]
- q+
- 17:49:43 [wendyreid]
- ... we want to reward people for incorporating testing and process up front
- 17:49:48 [wendyreid]
- ... which would be for silver
- 17:50:06 [wendyreid]
- ... gold would be recognizing process within an org, where they keep their site accessible
- 17:50:11 [wendyreid]
- ... there's disagreement there
- 17:50:18 [wendyreid]
- ... some think we should only be teting
- 17:50:29 [wendyreid]
- ... but I think there's an opportunity here to improve things for people with disabilities
- 17:50:34 [wendyreid]
- ... stop looking at it like a snapshot
- 17:50:45 [wendyreid]
- ... silver and gold would be optional, or make it a legal requirement
- 17:50:50 [wendyreid]
- ... but it would be substantive
- 17:51:17 [tzviya]
- https://www.tpgi.com/the-accessibility-maturity-lifecycle/
- 17:51:23 [wendyreid]
- tzviya: At Wiley we've been advocating for something like that, I'll share an article here
- 17:51:24 [tzviya]
- ack CharlesL
- 17:51:48 [wendyreid]
- jeanne: The person who wrote that is on the team :)
- 17:52:15 [wendyreid]
- CharlesL: It looks and feels like the program for GCA
- 17:52:28 [wendyreid]
- ... the scoring system, the sliding scales...
- 17:52:49 [marisa]
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- 17:52:53 [wendyreid]
- ... we'd love to show your team our system and the similarities
- 17:53:05 [wendyreid]
- ... as George mentioned there's the SMART tool and I could give a demo of that
- 17:53:45 [wendyreid]
- ... bronze isn't going to just be automatic, but manual as well?
- 17:53:48 [wendyreid]
- jeanne: YEs
- 17:54:03 [tzviya]
- ack marisa
- 17:54:07 [tzviya]
- ack liisamk
- 17:54:10 [George]
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- 17:54:12 [wendyreid]
- liisamk: Thanks Jeanne
- 17:54:25 [wendyreid]
- ... I was thinking about the comments about clear words and assessing the language of a document
- 17:54:32 [wendyreid]
- ... struggling with how we do this
- 17:54:34 [wendyreid]
- ... we are seeing in trade
- 17:54:43 [wendyreid]
- ... people are using more vernacular
- 17:54:46 [George__]
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- 17:54:47 [wendyreid]
- ... more ficitional language
- 17:54:58 [wendyreid]
- ... it's hard for us in publishing to help people understand
- 17:55:14 [wendyreid]
- ... it's not a comprehension issue, its part of the story
- 17:55:28 [wendyreid]
- ... this has been a challenge for us
- 17:55:47 [wendyreid]
- jeanne: Take a look at what we have for clear words
- 17:55:57 [wendyreid]
- ... in the draft, in the how to, and if what we have there is useful
- 17:56:04 [wendyreid]
- ... would love your feedback on how to make it better
- 17:56:18 [tzviya]
- ack avneeshsingh
- 17:56:33 [wendyreid]
- avneeshsingh: I have a practical question
- 17:56:44 [wendyreid]
- ... I would like to know what is the expected timeline for help
- 17:56:54 [wendyreid]
- ... we are quite engaged in EPUB a11y 1.1.
- 17:57:12 [wendyreid]
- ...FPWD released today, and we only have 3 more months to hit the requirements for EUAA
- 17:57:25 [wendyreid]
- ... what is the timeline for us to engage with you on writing the statements
- 17:57:33 [wendyreid]
- jeanne: Any tiem in the next two months
- 17:57:39 [wendyreid]
- ... we want to update quarterly
- 17:57:48 [wendyreid]
- ... next in april
- 17:57:58 [wendyreid]
- ... we will take your ideas as soon as you get them to us
- 17:58:08 [wendyreid]
- ... I doubt we will be finished in 2022
- 17:58:13 [wendyreid]
- ... much more likely to be 2023
- 17:58:28 [wendyreid]
- ... there will be a 3.1 and so on
- 17:58:39 [wendyreid]
- avneeshsingh: We'll do our best to meet 3.0
- 17:58:50 [jeanne]
- https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Er20Ij8De7Q1tdsP6w13U0jRo2rSkyGKOFy5pvwt6t4/
- 17:59:09 [wendyreid]
- jeanne: One of my colleagues did a presentation in Japan and did a feedback survey, I have done the same
- 17:59:15 [wendyreid]
- ... please fill it out
- 17:59:22 [wendyreid]
- ... in addition to other comments
- 17:59:46 [wendyreid]
- ... I have this slide deck in Japanese
- 17:59:56 [wendyreid]
- ... and translations coming in Korean and Spanish
- 18:00:12 [wendyreid]
- tzviya: We have a large and active group in Japan who will appreciate this!
- 18:00:20 [wendyreid]
- ... any questions or comments?
- 18:00:29 [jeanne]
- These slides in Japanese <- https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Er20Ij8De7Q1tdsP6w13U0jRo2rSkyGKOFy5pvwt6t4/
- 18:00:35 [MattChan]
- present+
- 18:00:45 [wendyreid]
- tzviya: see the links for feedback, and the links to the slides
- 18:01:13 [dauwhe]
- present+
- 18:01:14 [CharlesL]
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- 18:01:27 [dale]
- Thanks everyone.
- 18:03:09 [Ralph]
- zakim, end meeting
- 18:03:09 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been Jeanne_Spellman, Liisa, Tzviya, Dale_Rogers, Ralph, wolfgang, avneeshsingh, wendyreid, liisamk, JeanneSpellman, BenSchroeter_, ivan,
- 18:03:12 [Zakim]
- ... AlexGrover, George, MattChan, dauwhe
- 18:03:12 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
- 18:03:12 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/23-pbg-minutes.html Zakim
- 18:03:14 [Zakim]
- I am happy to have been of service, Ralph; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
- 18:03:18 [Zakim]
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