16:49:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pbg
16:49:54 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/02/23-pbg-irc
16:50:05 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #pbg
16:58:31 <MattNelsonWaPo> MattNelsonWaPo has joined #pbg
16:58:37 <Ralph> zakim, start meeting
16:58:38 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:58:38 <Zakim> Meeting: Publishing Business Group
16:59:00 <Ralph> present: Jeanne_Spellman, Liisa, Tzviya, Dale_Rogers, Ralph
16:59:13 <wolfgang> present+ wolfgang
16:59:31 <Dan_Sanicola> Dan_Sanicola has joined #pbg
16:59:37 <avneeshsingh> avneeshsingh has joined #pbg
16:59:50 <wendyreid> wendyreid has joined #pbg
16:59:57 <avneeshsingh> present+
17:00:04 <wendyreid> present+
17:00:11 <jeanne> http://bit.ly/3onBM1T
17:00:27 <liisamk> liisamk has joined #pbg
17:00:36 <liisamk> present+
17:00:43 <jeanne> present+ JeanneSpellman
17:03:33 <AlexGrover> AlexGrover has joined #pbg
17:04:54 <BenSchroeter_> BenSchroeter_ has joined #pbg
17:05:17 <Ralph> https://mit.zoom.us/j/98974538152
17:05:26 <George> George has joined #pbg
17:05:26 <BenSchroeter_> present+
17:05:44 <Ralph> s|https://mit.zoom.us/j/98974538152||
17:05:48 <BenSchroeter_> have to jump at bottom og the hour
17:05:51 <tzviya> zakim, pick a scribe
17:05:51 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose BenSchroeter_
17:06:11 <tzviya> zakim, pick a scribe
17:06:11 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose liisamk
17:06:32 <ivan> present+
17:06:44 <wendyreid> scribe+
17:07:02 <wendyreid> tzviya: Does anyone have any objections to being recorded?
17:07:12 <wendyreid> ... No objections, we'll begin recording
17:07:35 <wendyreid> [Jeanne's presentation is transcribed, so will copy into minutes]
17:09:06 <wendyreid> Presentation Slides: http://bit.ly/3onBM1T
17:10:01 <AlexGrover> present+
17:14:49 <LeslieHulse> LeslieHulse has joined #PBG
17:15:11 <George> present+
17:15:31 <dauwhe> dauwhe has joined #pbg
17:21:45 <MattChan> MattChan has joined #pbg
17:36:36 <George_> George_ has joined #pbg
17:38:59 <CharlesL> CharlesL has joined #pbg
17:40:34 <wendyreid> jeanne: Any questions?
17:40:40 <wendyreid> tzviya: Thank you, that was informative
17:40:57 <wendyreid> ... tiny comment, EPUB is spelled with all caps
17:41:11 <wendyreid> ... will send in an official comment
17:41:32 <wendyreid> jeanne: I have a question for you all
17:41:53 <wendyreid> ... I would like this group to consider how we would include your work
17:41:54 <George_> q+
17:42:08 <wendyreid> ... would you like to draft your own, or loan some people to us to draft guidelines
17:42:18 <wendyreid> ... it's time for us to have more external guidelines
17:43:02 <wendyreid> marisa: I saw mentioned somewhere "disability categories" is it on the roadmap for these guidelines to talk about these, and how do they intersect with the outcomes?
17:43:08 <wendyreid> jeanne: That is a great question
17:43:16 <wendyreid> ... they come from a group working on functional needs
17:43:24 <wendyreid> ... they took all of the major category documentation
17:43:32 <wendyreid> ... started working on combining them
17:43:44 <wendyreid> ... as part of that they have intersectional disabilities as a category
17:43:52 <wendyreid> ... physical/sensory, etc
17:44:00 <wendyreid> ... they've included those categories on the list
17:44:14 <CharlesL> q+
17:44:22 <wendyreid> ... we plan to make that available to all W3C to use as a reference for other guidelines
17:44:32 <Ralph> q+ Marisa
17:44:34 <wendyreid> ... got a lot of attention from other groups interested in this
17:44:51 <dale> dale has joined #pbg
17:45:07 <jeanne> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eJkgXqbh7dx3uD6XAy8XAANmwfbbVZ5GKb_gbsUdkVs/
17:45:16 <liisamk> q+
17:45:23 <tzviya> ack George_
17:45:32 <wendyreid> George_: Great presentation and thanks for the hard work
17:45:38 <wendyreid> ... is Matt (Garrish) on your team
17:45:52 <wendyreid> jeanne: I think he has commented on a few things, but he's not a regular participant
17:46:09 <wendyreid> George_: The first comment is that what we've done for accessibility for EPUB (thanks for including)
17:46:17 <Garth> q?
17:46:19 <wendyreid> ... we're in good shape in terms of conforming to this version
17:46:27 <wendyreid> ... I'm delighted to see how many things we're aligned on
17:46:38 <wendyreid> ... the ACE a11y checker for epub aligns as well
17:46:49 <tzviya> Published today https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/8923
17:46:55 <wendyreid> ... we provide automated testing and tips for manual review
17:47:14 <wendyreid> ... I've talked with a couple of people about the SMART tool we have
17:47:23 <wendyreid> ... it's a great way to evaluate publications
17:47:28 <wendyreid> ... structures and walks users through
17:47:40 <wendyreid> ... I do have a question about bronze, silver, and gold
17:47:47 <wendyreid> ... if bronze is equal to AA
17:48:07 <wendyreid> ... but it seems to be less than what companies might strive for, but still seems good
17:48:20 <wendyreid> jeanne: At the risk of talking about something we don't have consensus on
17:48:36 <wendyreid> ... what came out of the design sprint, bronze, like wcag 2, is like a snapshot
17:48:44 <wendyreid> ... it doesn't serve a11y as well as it could
17:48:55 <wendyreid> ... if people were building it in by design as part of development
17:49:01 <wendyreid> ... we think they should get more points for that
17:49:23 <wendyreid> ... silver should be inclusive design, usability testing, assistive tech testing
17:49:43 <avneeshsingh> q+
17:49:43 <wendyreid> ... we want to reward people for incorporating testing and process up front
17:49:48 <wendyreid> ... which would be for silver
17:50:06 <wendyreid> ... gold would be recognizing process within an org, where they keep their site accessible
17:50:11 <wendyreid> ... there's disagreement there
17:50:18 <wendyreid> ... some think we should only be teting
17:50:29 <wendyreid> ... but I think there's an opportunity here to improve things for people with disabilities
17:50:34 <wendyreid> ... stop looking at it like a snapshot
17:50:45 <wendyreid> ... silver and gold would be optional, or make it a legal requirement
17:50:50 <wendyreid> ... but it would be substantive
17:51:17 <tzviya> https://www.tpgi.com/the-accessibility-maturity-lifecycle/
17:51:23 <wendyreid> tzviya: At Wiley we've been advocating for something like that, I'll share an article here
17:51:24 <tzviya> ack CharlesL
17:51:48 <wendyreid> jeanne: The person who wrote that is on the team :)
17:52:15 <wendyreid> CharlesL: It looks and feels like the program for GCA
17:52:28 <wendyreid> ... the scoring system, the sliding scales...
17:52:49 <marisa> marisa has joined #pbg
17:52:53 <wendyreid> ... we'd love to show your team our system and the similarities
17:53:05 <wendyreid> ... as George mentioned there's the SMART tool and I could give a demo of that
17:53:45 <wendyreid> ... bronze isn't going to just be automatic, but manual as well?
17:53:48 <wendyreid> jeanne: YEs
17:54:03 <tzviya> ack marisa
17:54:07 <tzviya> ack liisamk
17:54:10 <George> George has joined #pbg
17:54:12 <wendyreid> liisamk: Thanks Jeanne
17:54:25 <wendyreid> ... I was thinking about the comments about clear words and assessing the language of a document
17:54:32 <wendyreid> ... struggling with how we do this
17:54:34 <wendyreid> ... we are seeing in trade
17:54:43 <wendyreid> ... people are using more vernacular
17:54:46 <George__> George__ has joined #pbg
17:54:47 <wendyreid> ... more ficitional language
17:54:58 <wendyreid> ... it's hard for us in publishing to help people understand
17:55:14 <wendyreid> ... it's not a comprehension issue, its part of the story
17:55:28 <wendyreid> ... this has been a challenge for us
17:55:47 <wendyreid> jeanne: Take a look at what we have for clear words
17:55:57 <wendyreid> ... in the draft, in the how to, and if what we have there is useful
17:56:04 <wendyreid> ... would love your feedback on how to make it better
17:56:18 <tzviya> ack avneeshsingh
17:56:33 <wendyreid> avneeshsingh: I have a practical question
17:56:44 <wendyreid> ... I would like to know what is the expected timeline for help
17:56:54 <wendyreid> ... we are quite engaged in EPUB a11y 1.1.
17:57:12 <wendyreid> ...FPWD released today, and we only have 3 more months to hit the requirements for EUAA
17:57:25 <wendyreid> ... what is the timeline for us to engage with you on writing the statements
17:57:33 <wendyreid> jeanne: Any tiem in the next two months
17:57:39 <wendyreid> ... we want to update quarterly
17:57:48 <wendyreid> ... next in april
17:57:58 <wendyreid> ... we will take your ideas as soon as you get them to us
17:58:08 <wendyreid> ... I doubt we will be finished in 2022
17:58:13 <wendyreid> ... much more likely to be 2023
17:58:28 <wendyreid> ... there will be a 3.1 and so on
17:58:39 <wendyreid> avneeshsingh: We'll do our best to meet 3.0
17:58:50 <jeanne> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Er20Ij8De7Q1tdsP6w13U0jRo2rSkyGKOFy5pvwt6t4/
17:59:09 <wendyreid> jeanne: One of my colleagues did a presentation in Japan and did a feedback survey, I have done the same
17:59:15 <wendyreid> ... please fill it out
17:59:22 <wendyreid> ... in addition to other comments
17:59:46 <wendyreid> ... I have this slide deck in Japanese
17:59:56 <wendyreid> ... and translations coming in Korean and Spanish
18:00:12 <wendyreid> tzviya: We have a large and active group in Japan who will appreciate this!
18:00:20 <wendyreid> ... any questions or comments?
18:00:29 <jeanne> These slides in Japanese <- https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Er20Ij8De7Q1tdsP6w13U0jRo2rSkyGKOFy5pvwt6t4/
18:00:35 <MattChan> present+
18:00:45 <wendyreid> tzviya: see the links for feedback, and the links to the slides
18:01:13 <dauwhe> present+
18:01:14 <CharlesL> CharlesL has left #pbg
18:01:27 <dale> Thanks everyone.
18:03:09 <Ralph> zakim, end meeting
18:03:09 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Jeanne_Spellman, Liisa, Tzviya, Dale_Rogers, Ralph, wolfgang, avneeshsingh, wendyreid, liisamk, JeanneSpellman, BenSchroeter_, ivan,
18:03:12 <Zakim> ... AlexGrover, George, MattChan, dauwhe
18:03:12 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
18:03:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/23-pbg-minutes.html Zakim
18:03:14 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Ralph; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
18:03:18 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pbg
18:04:11 <dale> dale has left #pbg
18:39:29 <jeanne> jeanne has left #pbg
18:51:27 <Karen> Karen has joined #pbg
19:57:31 <Karen> Karen has joined #pbg
21:11:35 <dauwhe> dauwhe has left #pbg