IRC log of pbg on 2021-02-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/02/23-pbg-irc
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16:58:37 [Ralph]
zakim, start meeting
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RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:58:38 [Zakim]
Meeting: Publishing Business Group
16:59:00 [Ralph]
present: Jeanne_Spellman, Liisa, Tzviya, Dale_Rogers, Ralph
16:59:13 [wolfgang]
present+ wolfgang
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16:59:57 [avneeshsingh]
present+
17:00:04 [wendyreid]
present+
17:00:11 [jeanne]
http://bit.ly/3onBM1T
17:00:27 [liisamk]
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17:00:36 [liisamk]
present+
17:00:43 [jeanne]
present+ JeanneSpellman
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17:04:54 [BenSchroeter_]
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17:05:17 [Ralph]
https://mit.zoom.us/j/98974538152
17:05:26 [George]
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17:05:26 [BenSchroeter_]
present+
17:05:44 [Ralph]
s|https://mit.zoom.us/j/98974538152||
17:05:48 [BenSchroeter_]
have to jump at bottom og the hour
17:05:51 [tzviya]
zakim, pick a scribe
17:05:51 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose BenSchroeter_
17:06:11 [tzviya]
zakim, pick a scribe
17:06:11 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose liisamk
17:06:32 [ivan]
present+
17:06:44 [wendyreid]
scribe+
17:07:02 [wendyreid]
tzviya: Does anyone have any objections to being recorded?
17:07:12 [wendyreid]
... No objections, we'll begin recording
17:07:35 [wendyreid]
[Jeanne's presentation is transcribed, so will copy into minutes]
17:09:06 [wendyreid]
Presentation Slides: http://bit.ly/3onBM1T
17:10:01 [AlexGrover]
present+
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17:15:11 [George]
present+
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17:40:34 [wendyreid]
jeanne: Any questions?
17:40:40 [wendyreid]
tzviya: Thank you, that was informative
17:40:57 [wendyreid]
... tiny comment, EPUB is spelled with all caps
17:41:11 [wendyreid]
... will send in an official comment
17:41:32 [wendyreid]
jeanne: I have a question for you all
17:41:53 [wendyreid]
... I would like this group to consider how we would include your work
17:41:54 [George_]
q+
17:42:08 [wendyreid]
... would you like to draft your own, or loan some people to us to draft guidelines
17:42:18 [wendyreid]
... it's time for us to have more external guidelines
17:43:02 [wendyreid]
marisa: I saw mentioned somewhere "disability categories" is it on the roadmap for these guidelines to talk about these, and how do they intersect with the outcomes?
17:43:08 [wendyreid]
jeanne: That is a great question
17:43:16 [wendyreid]
... they come from a group working on functional needs
17:43:24 [wendyreid]
... they took all of the major category documentation
17:43:32 [wendyreid]
... started working on combining them
17:43:44 [wendyreid]
... as part of that they have intersectional disabilities as a category
17:43:52 [wendyreid]
... physical/sensory, etc
17:44:00 [wendyreid]
... they've included those categories on the list
17:44:14 [CharlesL]
q+
17:44:22 [wendyreid]
... we plan to make that available to all W3C to use as a reference for other guidelines
17:44:32 [Ralph]
q+ Marisa
17:44:34 [wendyreid]
... got a lot of attention from other groups interested in this
17:44:51 [dale]
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17:45:07 [jeanne]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eJkgXqbh7dx3uD6XAy8XAANmwfbbVZ5GKb_gbsUdkVs/
17:45:16 [liisamk]
q+
17:45:23 [tzviya]
ack George_
17:45:32 [wendyreid]
George_: Great presentation and thanks for the hard work
17:45:38 [wendyreid]
... is Matt (Garrish) on your team
17:45:52 [wendyreid]
jeanne: I think he has commented on a few things, but he's not a regular participant
17:46:09 [wendyreid]
George_: The first comment is that what we've done for accessibility for EPUB (thanks for including)
17:46:17 [Garth]
q?
17:46:19 [wendyreid]
... we're in good shape in terms of conforming to this version
17:46:27 [wendyreid]
... I'm delighted to see how many things we're aligned on
17:46:38 [wendyreid]
... the ACE a11y checker for epub aligns as well
17:46:49 [tzviya]
Published today https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/8923
17:46:55 [wendyreid]
... we provide automated testing and tips for manual review
17:47:14 [wendyreid]
... I've talked with a couple of people about the SMART tool we have
17:47:23 [wendyreid]
... it's a great way to evaluate publications
17:47:28 [wendyreid]
... structures and walks users through
17:47:40 [wendyreid]
... I do have a question about bronze, silver, and gold
17:47:47 [wendyreid]
... if bronze is equal to AA
17:48:07 [wendyreid]
... but it seems to be less than what companies might strive for, but still seems good
17:48:20 [wendyreid]
jeanne: At the risk of talking about something we don't have consensus on
17:48:36 [wendyreid]
... what came out of the design sprint, bronze, like wcag 2, is like a snapshot
17:48:44 [wendyreid]
... it doesn't serve a11y as well as it could
17:48:55 [wendyreid]
... if people were building it in by design as part of development
17:49:01 [wendyreid]
... we think they should get more points for that
17:49:23 [wendyreid]
... silver should be inclusive design, usability testing, assistive tech testing
17:49:43 [avneeshsingh]
q+
17:49:43 [wendyreid]
... we want to reward people for incorporating testing and process up front
17:49:48 [wendyreid]
... which would be for silver
17:50:06 [wendyreid]
... gold would be recognizing process within an org, where they keep their site accessible
17:50:11 [wendyreid]
... there's disagreement there
17:50:18 [wendyreid]
... some think we should only be teting
17:50:29 [wendyreid]
... but I think there's an opportunity here to improve things for people with disabilities
17:50:34 [wendyreid]
... stop looking at it like a snapshot
17:50:45 [wendyreid]
... silver and gold would be optional, or make it a legal requirement
17:50:50 [wendyreid]
... but it would be substantive
17:51:17 [tzviya]
https://www.tpgi.com/the-accessibility-maturity-lifecycle/
17:51:23 [wendyreid]
tzviya: At Wiley we've been advocating for something like that, I'll share an article here
17:51:24 [tzviya]
ack CharlesL
17:51:48 [wendyreid]
jeanne: The person who wrote that is on the team :)
17:52:15 [wendyreid]
CharlesL: It looks and feels like the program for GCA
17:52:28 [wendyreid]
... the scoring system, the sliding scales...
17:52:49 [marisa]
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17:52:53 [wendyreid]
... we'd love to show your team our system and the similarities
17:53:05 [wendyreid]
... as George mentioned there's the SMART tool and I could give a demo of that
17:53:45 [wendyreid]
... bronze isn't going to just be automatic, but manual as well?
17:53:48 [wendyreid]
jeanne: YEs
17:54:03 [tzviya]
ack marisa
17:54:07 [tzviya]
ack liisamk
17:54:10 [George]
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17:54:12 [wendyreid]
liisamk: Thanks Jeanne
17:54:25 [wendyreid]
... I was thinking about the comments about clear words and assessing the language of a document
17:54:32 [wendyreid]
... struggling with how we do this
17:54:34 [wendyreid]
... we are seeing in trade
17:54:43 [wendyreid]
... people are using more vernacular
17:54:46 [George__]
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17:54:47 [wendyreid]
... more ficitional language
17:54:58 [wendyreid]
... it's hard for us in publishing to help people understand
17:55:14 [wendyreid]
... it's not a comprehension issue, its part of the story
17:55:28 [wendyreid]
... this has been a challenge for us
17:55:47 [wendyreid]
jeanne: Take a look at what we have for clear words
17:55:57 [wendyreid]
... in the draft, in the how to, and if what we have there is useful
17:56:04 [wendyreid]
... would love your feedback on how to make it better
17:56:18 [tzviya]
ack avneeshsingh
17:56:33 [wendyreid]
avneeshsingh: I have a practical question
17:56:44 [wendyreid]
... I would like to know what is the expected timeline for help
17:56:54 [wendyreid]
... we are quite engaged in EPUB a11y 1.1.
17:57:12 [wendyreid]
...FPWD released today, and we only have 3 more months to hit the requirements for EUAA
17:57:25 [wendyreid]
... what is the timeline for us to engage with you on writing the statements
17:57:33 [wendyreid]
jeanne: Any tiem in the next two months
17:57:39 [wendyreid]
... we want to update quarterly
17:57:48 [wendyreid]
... next in april
17:57:58 [wendyreid]
... we will take your ideas as soon as you get them to us
17:58:08 [wendyreid]
... I doubt we will be finished in 2022
17:58:13 [wendyreid]
... much more likely to be 2023
17:58:28 [wendyreid]
... there will be a 3.1 and so on
17:58:39 [wendyreid]
avneeshsingh: We'll do our best to meet 3.0
17:58:50 [jeanne]
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Er20Ij8De7Q1tdsP6w13U0jRo2rSkyGKOFy5pvwt6t4/
17:59:09 [wendyreid]
jeanne: One of my colleagues did a presentation in Japan and did a feedback survey, I have done the same
17:59:15 [wendyreid]
... please fill it out
17:59:22 [wendyreid]
... in addition to other comments
17:59:46 [wendyreid]
... I have this slide deck in Japanese
17:59:56 [wendyreid]
... and translations coming in Korean and Spanish
18:00:12 [wendyreid]
tzviya: We have a large and active group in Japan who will appreciate this!
18:00:20 [wendyreid]
... any questions or comments?
18:00:29 [jeanne]
These slides in Japanese <- https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Er20Ij8De7Q1tdsP6w13U0jRo2rSkyGKOFy5pvwt6t4/
18:00:35 [MattChan]
present+
18:00:45 [wendyreid]
tzviya: see the links for feedback, and the links to the slides
18:01:13 [dauwhe]
present+
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18:01:27 [dale]
Thanks everyone.
18:03:09 [Ralph]
zakim, end meeting
18:03:09 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Jeanne_Spellman, Liisa, Tzviya, Dale_Rogers, Ralph, wolfgang, avneeshsingh, wendyreid, liisamk, JeanneSpellman, BenSchroeter_, ivan,
18:03:12 [Zakim]
... AlexGrover, George, MattChan, dauwhe
18:03:12 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
18:03:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/23-pbg-minutes.html Zakim
18:03:14 [Zakim]
I am happy to have been of service, Ralph; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
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