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19:50:55 <Matt_King> MEETING: ARIA and Assistive Technologies Community Group
19:51:09 <Matt_King> CHAIR: James Schoels
19:51:21 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make log public
19:51:36 <Matt_King> present+ Matt-King
19:51:46 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
19:51:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/18-aria-at-minutes.html Matt_King
19:52:51 <Matt_King> TOPIC: Agenda
19:53:17 <Matt_King> Agenda for this meeting is available at: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/wiki/February-18,-2021-Community-Group-Meeting
19:53:25 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
19:53:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/18-aria-at-minutes.html Matt_King
19:55:18 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
19:55:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/18-aria-at-minutes.html Matt_King
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20:05:16 <michael_fairchild> scribe: michael_fairchild
20:08:05 <michael_fairchild> James: will next week be a cross roads meeting?
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20:08:47 <michael_fairchild> mk: lets focus on test development next week and skip the cross roads meeting this month.
20:10:20 <michael_fairchild> group discussed https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/386
20:10:42 <michael_fairchild> mk: seth, can you wrap up this issu (386) and close it?
20:10:45 <michael_fairchild> seth: yes
20:11:08 <michael_fairchild> group discussed https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/375
20:11:42 <michael_fairchild> mk: we are going to talk about an issue today related to marking tests as draft. Should we leave this open until we close that issue?
20:11:49 <michael_fairchild> james: yes
20:12:58 <michael_fairchild> mk: group discussed https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/382
20:13:23 <michael_fairchild> james: for this one we need to draft language and update the test runner
20:13:33 <michael_fairchild> mk: can you do this, James?
20:13:38 <michael_fairchild> james: yes
20:14:01 <michael_fairchild> mk: thanks. Can you draft some language and we can review it?
20:14:25 <michael_fairchild> james: yes
20:16:45 <michael_fairchild> topic: Revisit: Next Patterns for Test Plan Development (issue 385)
20:16:55 <Matt_King> Issue: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/385
20:17:38 <michael_fairchild> james: we have put a list of 6 issues in the issue. The first two are the file directory tree view examples.
20:19:13 <michael_fairchild> mk: we have 3 tree view examples. should we get rid of the file treeview example with computed properties?
20:19:38 <michael_fairchild> jon: it would simplify things, and they probably need to be updated.
20:20:23 <michael_fairchild> mk: so, that would mean we get rid of the computed properties one from this list.
20:22:15 <michael_fairchild> james: if you are proposing removing one of these examples from the APG, would you remove roving tabindex exmaples, for example?
20:22:40 <michael_fairchild> mk: not sure
20:23:20 <michael_fairchild> mk: james, you can put the navigation treeview. Remove the file treeview with computed properties. Delay the declared one so that we can improve what it illustrates in the APG
20:24:09 <michael_fairchild> james: when are those improvements on the APG side likely to happen?
20:24:32 <michael_fairchild> mk: we don't have an open issue for updating this.
20:25:04 <michael_fairchild> mk: we can revisit this in about 3 weeks
20:25:18 <michael_fairchild> james: the next pattern is the date picker spin button example
20:25:48 <s3ththompson> present+
20:26:11 <michael_fairchild> mk: jon, the datepicker spin button is good, right?
20:26:25 <michael_fairchild> jon: I'm not aware of any issues with it.
20:29:10 <michael_fairchild> james: and then, we will revisit the rest of the sliders
20:31:49 <michael_fairchild> mk: we can add button and toggle button to the list
20:32:15 <michael_fairchild> rob: I did create the test plan for the button
20:32:45 <michael_fairchild> james: I think it needs some updates to better match the latest test designs
20:33:56 <michael_fairchild> James: so we will work on: navigation tree view, button, toggle button, date picker spin button, toolbar, horizontal slider, slider examples with orientation, file directory example with declared properties
20:34:18 <michael_fairchild> topic: Work through prioritised list of issues with test writing/ARIA-AT App crossover, with input from Seth and other Bocoup team members if present. Specific issues in priority order:
20:35:05 <michael_fairchild> see agenda for list of priority order https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/wiki/February-18,-2021-Community-Group-Meeting
20:35:36 <michael_fairchild> james: for seth and others, what it is the best way to discuss this?
20:36:01 <michael_fairchild> seth: we trust your order, no preferences from me
20:36:59 <michael_fairchild> mk: there are two ways that I have thought about this. one way is thinking about which of these issues most immediately impacts how your write tests, and would if done later cause you to do more re-work.
20:38:34 <michael_fairchild> mk: some, like 300, don't cause re-work, but does affect how the group operates, and thus how quickly we can move. We could discuss hacking how we operate to get around them.
20:39:57 <michael_fairchild> james: if we look at ones with test-writing impact: the first issue is 363
20:42:46 <michael_fairchild> (discussion around the issue)
20:43:02 <michael_fairchild> mk: it sounds like we need to prioritize this. Maybe this is next week's meeting.
20:43:14 <michael_fairchild> james: yes, that's my plan.
20:43:27 <michael_fairchild> james: issue 388
20:44:58 <michael_fairchild> mk: not having this means more writing of tests. Waiting on this might not mean we have to re-write tests, but we might need to re-structure tests.
20:45:31 <michael_fairchild> james: where it could have a big impact would be if we decide to test non-apg patterns/elements
20:45:58 <michael_fairchild> mk: I think this is not immediately as impactful as issue 363
20:46:02 <michael_fairchild> james: I agree
20:49:17 <michael_fairchild> james: we have some internal processes to reduce re-work and we can share that with seth down the road
20:51:14 <michael_fairchild> james: issue 369, and related issue 358
20:51:37 <michael_fairchild> james: I'm ignoring issue 370 as that doesn't matter for us as test writers
20:51:59 <michael_fairchild> james: it would be good for us to chain setup scripts together, or share functionality between them
20:52:42 <michael_fairchild> james: if we are going to indicate to the tester that they need to press a button, then we do need a way to provide a script to a known good state.
20:54:01 <michael_fairchild> mk: this makes a ton of sense. This affects how tests are run.
20:55:30 <michael_fairchild> mk: I think this is really important.
20:55:59 <michael_fairchild> james: yes, because it will guarantee that tests are always run from a known good state
20:56:20 <michael_fairchild> james: do you agree, seth?
20:56:53 <michael_fairchild> seth: we would like to remove the iframe as a way to load tests.
20:57:11 <michael_fairchild> seth: we need something like a rendering engine
20:58:34 <michael_fairchild> mk: james and seth, should deep dive with Jes's team to figure out some options here and come back to the group
20:59:22 <michael_fairchild> james: the last issue is 366
20:59:35 <michael_fairchild> james: I think that's a CG discussion
21:00:09 <michael_fairchild> james: maybe even provide examples of what to expect to hear for what would fulfill the assertion
21:00:25 <michael_fairchild> mk: yes, we as a CG should dive into this
21:00:58 <michael_fairchild> james: there are a few issues that we didn't get to
21:02:13 <michael_fairchild> mk: seth, I think issue 300 as pretty high priority because it is something that we want to track over time as metrics. And it can affect how we want to work right now.
21:03:42 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
21:03:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/18-aria-at-minutes.html Matt_King
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