15:45:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-uc
15:45:47 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/01/19-wot-uc-irc
15:59:55 <cperey> cperey has joined #wot-uc
16:00:10 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot-uc
16:00:16 <kaz> Meeting: Discovery + AR Use Cases
16:00:24 <kaz> Chair: McCool
16:00:37 <McCool> McCool has joined #wot-uc
16:01:10 <RobSmith> RobSmith has joined #wot-uc
16:01:36 <brinkwoman> brinkwoman has joined #wot-uc
16:01:51 <jan-erik_OARC> jan-erik_OARC has joined #wot-uc
16:01:56 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Christine_Perey, James_Jackson, Jan-Erik_Vinje, Linda_van_den_Brink, Michel_McCool, Nazih_Fino, Rob_Smith, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Tony_Hodgson, Vladimir_Ufnarovsky
16:02:07 <kaz> present+ Joshue_O_Connor
16:02:56 <jan-erik_OARC> hi all
16:03:07 <kaz> present+ Kunihiko_Toumura
16:03:52 <nfino> nfino has joined #wot-uc
16:03:56 <ufnv> ufnv has joined #wot-uc
16:04:07 <James_Jackson> James_Jackson has joined #wot-uc
16:04:15 <ktoumura> ktoumura has joined #wot-uc
16:05:13 <kaz> Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/955
16:05:37 <kaz> topic: Background
16:05:51 <kaz> cp: (provides the background so far)
16:05:56 <kaz> ... discovery is the key
16:06:12 <kaz> ... to have broader discussion on discovery for AR today
16:06:46 <kaz> present+ Ted_Guild
16:07:01 <kaz> mm: (provides logistics notes)
16:07:05 <kaz> ... the minutes will be public
16:07:33 <kaz> present+ Colin_Steinmann
16:07:42 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster
16:08:18 <kaz> ... holding as an IG meeting under the use case TF
16:08:49 <kaz> ... (introduction of McCool himself as the co-Chair for the WoT WG/IG)
16:09:02 <kaz> (and the others also introduce themselves)
16:10:03 <kaz> Christine
16:10:05 <kaz> Tony
16:10:44 <kaz> Linda
16:11:12 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
16:11:16 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:11:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/19-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz
16:11:47 <kaz> Rob
16:12:24 <kaz> Josua
16:12:31 <kaz> s/Josua/Joshua/
16:12:45 <kaz> Ted
16:12:57 <kaz> q+
16:13:08 <kaz> Joshue
16:13:44 <kaz> Kaz
16:13:52 <kaz> Jan-Erik
16:14:45 <kaz> topic: Intro
16:14:58 <kaz> mm: this meeting is specifically discovery for AR
16:15:07 <kaz> ... focus on AR use cases
16:15:20 <kaz> ... and identify what the next steps would be
16:15:45 <kaz> ... would provide technical background information
16:15:54 <kaz> ... any comments before that?
16:15:55 <kaz> (none)
16:16:19 <kaz> mm: (shows the TPAC breakout slides)
16:17:07 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2020/10/27-wot-breakout/2020-10-WoT-Breakout.pdf WoT Breakout slides
16:17:23 <kaz> mm: [WoT Goal and Use Cases]
16:17:34 <kaz> ... [Current Work Items]
16:17:42 <kaz> ... have published several specs
16:17:50 <kaz> ... working on a new Charter
16:18:01 <kaz> ... Discovery is a process to access metadata
16:18:23 <kaz> ... not just local area broadcasting but also internet search
16:18:38 <kaz> ... considering multi-process approach
16:18:49 <kaz> ... including geospatial awareness
16:19:09 <kaz> ... finding out where the related sensors are, etc.
16:19:13 <kaz> ... [Thing Description]
16:19:21 <kaz> ... describes information on devices
16:19:32 <kaz> ... including metadata
16:19:39 <kaz> ... one of the metadata is location
16:19:52 <kaz> ... might be static but could be dynamic
16:20:09 <kaz> ... e.g., if the device is a vehicle
16:20:39 <kaz> ... also not just position but acceleration, direction, etc., can be included
16:21:00 <kaz> ... [Geolocation]
16:21:09 <kaz> ... did some prototyping
16:21:31 <kaz> ... quickly shows them
16:21:40 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/labels/Geolocation geolocation-related issues
16:22:47 <kaz> mm: (shows example TDs)
16:22:56 <kaz> ... longitude, latitude, etc.
16:23:04 <kaz> ... accuracy and heading
16:23:19 <kaz> ... might have property to distinguish the positions
16:23:43 <kaz> ... links to associate entities
16:23:52 <kaz> ... need to have some method to handle this
16:24:25 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/tree/master/events/2020.09.Online/TDs/Intel example TDs
16:24:38 <kaz> cp: discussion for now?
16:24:46 <kaz> mm: let's have discussion during the second half
16:24:53 <kaz> ... 24mins past now
16:25:19 <kaz> cp: introducing open cloud would make sense
16:25:52 <kaz> topic: Open AR Cloud
16:26:06 <kaz> jev: (starts to share the screen)
16:26:26 <kaz> ... AR-Cloud, Spatial Discovery & WoT
16:26:53 <kaz> s/open cloud/open AR cloud/
16:27:22 <kaz> ... open AR cloud is a young non-profit
16:27:34 <kaz> ... 60+ partners and 300+ members
16:27:50 <kaz> ... big picture here
16:27:54 <kaz> ... new convergence
16:28:14 <kaz> ... real world spatial computing including IoT
16:28:21 <kaz> ... what is the AR cloud?
16:28:33 <kaz> ... realtime 3D/spatial map of the world
16:28:40 <kaz> ... (Ori Inbar)
16:28:49 <kaz> ... exciting concept
16:28:58 <kaz> ... (4 books on the slides)
16:29:32 <kaz> ... Open AR Clouds, AR Convergence, Welcome to Mirror World, ...
16:29:42 <kaz> ... Layers of the Spatial Web
16:30:02 <kaz> ... thematic layers and reality capture layers
16:30:17 <kaz> ... IoT, Art, Entertainment, Commerce, etc.
16:30:35 <kaz> ... currently not good interoperability there
16:30:51 <kaz> ... The Open Web Platform - Web@30
16:31:00 <kaz> ... standards, protocols, services, clients
16:31:29 <kaz> ... we should let James Jackson give the through story
16:31:44 <kaz> ... jj: interesting comparison with the Web
16:31:58 <kaz> ... Open Spatial Computing Platform (OSCP)
16:32:12 <kaz> ... provides core building blocks
16:32:29 <kaz> ... we provide reference implementations
16:32:45 <kaz> ... high-level view of the experience
16:32:55 <kaz> ... various phases here
16:33:10 <kaz> ... first thing to do is discovery
16:33:20 <kaz> ... spatial service discovery
16:33:32 <kaz> ... it's sort of hierarchy
16:33:46 <kaz> ... it's mapping of coverage polygon
16:34:19 <kaz> ... services themselves will be smaller geo area named geo zone
16:34:31 <kaz> ... determine accurate position in the real world
16:34:56 <kaz> ... and secondly determine it in geopost
16:35:33 <brainwaive> brainwaive has joined #wot-uc
16:35:41 <kaz> ... determine the precise position where you're within the real world
16:35:54 <kaz> jev: geo post is a standard by OGC
16:36:08 <kaz> ... also we have the CEO of a company who provide it
16:36:34 <kaz> ... small steps to the goals
16:36:52 <kaz> mm: we need to move along
16:36:56 <kaz> jj: ok
16:37:02 <brinkwoman> brinkwoman has joined #wot-uc
16:37:06 <kaz> ... once you determine the position
16:37:21 <kaz> ... you can think of democritizing the position
16:37:39 <kaz> ... anyone can discover it
16:37:43 <brinkwoman> brinkwoman has joined #wot-uc
16:38:07 <kaz> ... content itself is not our standardization target
16:38:23 <kaz> ... the other key aspect is digital twin
16:38:29 <kaz> ... static layer and dynamic layer
16:38:41 <kaz> ... discover a content which is available to me
16:38:57 <kaz> ... e.g., a building in front of me
16:39:53 <kaz> ... spatial discovery is one of our use cases
16:40:01 <kaz> ... you could discover other elements
16:40:11 <kaz> mm: a lot of points packed here
16:40:27 <kaz> ... any additional materials before discussion?
16:40:28 <kaz> (none)
16:40:51 <kaz> mm: is there any liaison with W3C?
16:40:58 <kaz> jev: happy to establish one
16:41:17 <kaz> ... indirectly connected via ETSI, etc.
16:41:34 <kaz> cp: can work with Kaz for the procedure
16:41:37 <kaz> kaz: yes
16:41:46 <kaz> mm: two points here
16:41:52 <kaz> ... 1. information model
16:41:59 <kaz> ... what information to be included here?
16:42:20 <kaz> ... 2. discovery process
16:42:26 <kaz> ... very loose structure here
16:42:45 <kaz> ... onboarding, contact model, etc., to be described
16:43:00 <kaz> ... we don't have to just have a mDNS approach
16:43:16 <kaz> ... and would like to know how your model works
16:43:28 <kaz> jev: would follow it up
16:43:37 <kaz> ... we ourselves work on the geospatial aspects
16:43:59 <kaz> mm: semantic discovery and network-relevant discovery are also of our interest
16:44:20 <kaz> ... also last year we started to work on several use cases
16:44:28 <kaz> ... Rob Smith submitted one
16:44:50 <kaz> ... e.g., geospatial query needs to include position of view
16:45:04 <RobSmith> q+
16:45:13 <kaz> q-
16:45:29 <kaz> ack r
16:45:45 <kaz> rs: regarding location
16:46:01 <kaz> ... are you interested in trajectory, i.e., history of location, as well?
16:46:08 <kaz> mm: historical data in general
16:46:19 <kaz> ... relates to time-series data
16:46:31 <kaz> ... time stamp is also
16:46:32 <kaz> q+
16:46:47 <kaz> ... not only spatial aspect
16:47:02 <kaz> rs: video aspect is in my scope
16:47:15 <kaz> mm: Kaz is also involved in the MEIG
16:47:17 <kaz> rs: yes
16:48:01 <kaz> jev: interesting aspect about time domain
16:48:19 <kaz> ... different time series structure to be considered here
16:48:38 <kaz> ... note that it's highly sensitive
16:49:12 <kaz> ... if you have very local access, the data might be aggregated
16:49:16 <kaz> mm: yeah
16:49:38 <kaz> ... could be several use cases like factory automation
16:49:55 <kaz> ... sometimes privacy control could be less weighted
16:50:06 <kaz> topic: Next steps
16:50:16 <kaz> mm: capturing use cases and requirements
16:50:28 <kaz> ... we're holding use cases call bi-weekly
16:50:36 <kaz> ... having a couple of you would be helpful
16:50:44 <kaz> ... do a project to dig into the issues
16:51:10 <kaz> cp: Linda, any ideas from the Spatial group viewpoint?
16:51:28 <kaz> linda: what McCool mentioned makes sense
16:51:38 <kaz> ... functional requirements would be helpful
16:52:00 <kaz> ... and thinking about geo pose
16:52:18 <kaz> cp: dig into some complete package
16:52:45 <kaz> mm: follow-up actions here
16:52:55 <kaz> ... (updates the agenda issue)
16:53:25 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/955 agenda issue
16:53:28 <kaz> q?
16:53:52 <kaz> mm: 1. spatial experts participating in WoT use cases calls and contributing use cases
16:54:15 <kaz> ... 2. discuss liaisons between WoT and geospatial SDOs
16:54:29 <kaz> ... 3. WoT to review and summaze relevant spatial data standards
16:54:44 <kaz> ... 4. review of ongoing standards activitis
16:55:03 <kaz> ... 5. proposals and prototypes from WoT to b reviewed by spatial experts
16:55:14 <kaz> ... the question is what/where the spatial data comes from
16:55:34 <RobSmith> q+
16:55:35 <kaz> ... having a service that is responsive for some specific area?
16:56:53 <kaz> kaz: completely agree with the approach
16:57:21 <kaz> ... and would like to extract horizontal requirements as well as vertical requirements from the use cases at the bullet point 1
16:57:23 <kaz> ack k
16:57:36 <kaz> mm: (adds note to the bullet point 1, use case)
16:58:08 <kaz> rs: spatial on the Web producing responsive use of spatial data
16:58:28 <kaz> ... would like to post the information
16:58:30 <RobSmith> https://w3c.github.io/sdw/responsible-use/
16:58:32 <kaz> mm: tx
16:58:43 <kaz> s/responsive/responsible/
16:58:55 <brinkwoman> Actually just published at https://www.w3.org/TR/responsible-use-spatial/
16:59:55 <kaz> i/github/Editor's draft/
17:00:05 <kaz> i/Actually/published draft/
17:00:40 <kaz> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2020Dec/0002.html
17:00:55 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/blob/master/events/2020.09.Online/TDs/Intel/intel-camera.jsonld
17:00:57 <McCool> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/IG_UseCase_WebConf
17:01:34 <kaz> mm: the next WoT Use Cases call will be held on Jan-26
17:01:53 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_Page#WebConf_Meetings times at your timezone :)
17:02:22 <kaz> mm: people interested are encouraged to join that call
17:03:09 <kaz> kaz: if you're interested but don't have access to the webex coordinate, please let me know
17:03:30 <kaz> [adjourned]
17:03:38 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:03:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/19-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz
19:24:52 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wot-uc