18:48:35 RRSAgent has joined #silver 18:48:35 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/01/15-silver-irc 18:48:37 SuzanneTaylor has joined #silver 18:48:38 RRSAgent, make logs Public 18:48:39 Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group 18:48:48 Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group 18:48:48 present: 18:48:48 chair: Shawn, jeanne 18:48:48 present+ 18:48:48 zakim, clear agenda 18:48:48 rrsagent, make minutes 18:48:48 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/15-silver-minutes.html jeanne 18:48:48 q? 18:48:48 agenda cleared 18:51:03 agenda+ reminder of Silver Decision Policy CFC 18:51:03 agenda+ Followup on improving asynchronous communication 18:51:03 agenda+ Reminder of Teleconference meeting schedule change survey 18:51:03 agenda+ Continue updates to Silver Requirements 18:59:16 CharlesHall has joined #silver 18:59:24 sajkaj has joined #silver 18:59:33 present+ 18:59:35 present+ 18:59:50 late regrets, have to leave at 2:30p ET 19:00:00 present+ 19:00:52 Jemma has joined #silver 19:01:00 present+ Jemma 19:01:20 scribe: sajkaj 19:01:39 zakim, take up item 1 19:01:39 agendum 1 -- reminder of Silver Decision Policy CFC -- taken up [from jeanne] 19:01:57 scribe: Jemma 19:02:00 agenda? 19:03:00 jeanne: CFC is out. 19:03:25 jennifer has joined #silver 19:03:35 KimD has joined #silver 19:03:40 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-silver/2021Jan/0041.html 19:03:46 present + 19:03:56 present+ 19:04:12 Wilco has joined #silver 19:04:16 present+ 19:04:48 CFC is more of +1 or not (such as you cannot leave with it). 19:05:01 rrsagent, make minutes 19:05:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/15-silver-minutes.html Jemma 19:05:06 zakim, take up item 2 19:05:06 agendum 2 -- Followup on improving asynchronous communication -- taken up [from jeanne] 19:06:25 jeanne: we had good responses about ways we can encourage people to contribue more in spite of challenges like time conflict or time zone. 19:07:09 q+ 19:07:13 ..there are also suggestions for different tools as well as a11y concerns for the tool. 19:08:06 +1 to DF 19:08:26 +1 to DF 19:09:00 Q+ 19:09:05 fazio: adding more tools such as slack and communication channels really make things complex. It is also challenging for the people with congnitive disabilities and more. 19:09:28 ack faz 19:10:20 q+ 19:10:28 ack jenn 19:10:34 Agreed it's difficult to include everyone 19:10:36 jeanee: context of the discussion - how to integrate people in 20 + timezone and encourage more participation 19:11:10 jennifer: agree with what Jeanne and David said above. 19:11:18 q+ 19:11:24 s/jeanee/jeanne 19:11:40 On the same note It's impossible to include everyone 19:11:51 q+ 19:11:56 +1 to Jennifer’s point on email not consistently threaded 19:12:35 Jan has joined #silver 19:12:54 present+ Jan 19:13:00 jenifer: I thought having one place to follow up everything rather than search email box. IMy suggestion is more like creating "problem space" 19:13:12 s/search/searching 19:13:20 My concern is micro-conversations taking place on informal channels that might be missed by the formal participants 19:13:24 +1 to Jennifer's comment - very hard to sort/thread emails because the titles aren't consistent 19:13:54 ack wil 19:15:46 As a new contributor with a TBI+CPTSD, I'm struggling to understand the emails. There seems to be three different "areas" that I'm getting emails for, with different meeting times. However, I haven't figured out what all the meeting times are — from the emails or the webpage. All the "regrets" and responses to emails add more, as I am unable to pipe in without context, and context is difficult to find. 19:15:54 wilco: based on my asynchronos working experience, it helped to work more items and resolve timezone and other challegnes. we may have a central place members can send the feedback and follow up on the processes. 19:16:00 q+ 19:16:35 I had the idea that a tool like Slack or Teams or Github would provide a single source of truth, where folks can contribute asynchronously with a record maintained. 19:16:55 ack char 19:17:52 +1 e-mail is awful for this type of work 19:18:12 charles: pain of calendaring, inefficiency of email threading and so on is difficult to follow up issues . 19:18:35 +1 regarding email being poor for this. +1 to Github being helpful in other endeavors I've participated in. 19:19:34 Need for longer time to engage and respond, need for in person support to help with understanding, Need for a way to find things, need for an easy way to track high priority decisions at an appropriate engagement point, COGA members find Github very difficult 19:19:36 ack rachael 19:20:06 charles: My idea was based on having some asynchronos method which will be beneficial to the members so that they can catch up with issues and reponses without personal situation such as new employment and more. 19:20:22 ..rather than suggesting tool solution. 19:21:34 ack saj 19:21:46 rachael: less technical solution will be more beneficial in terms of COGA 19:22:00 q+1 Janina as usual 19:22:16 +1 Janina as usual 19:22:25 Q+ (to respond re threading) 19:22:35 Q+ 19:24:37 q+ 19:25:01 +1 to Janina (good topic on email won't prohibit the email content wandering off topic) 19:25:24 sajkaj: we can see this from 3 perspective, techincal setting( ex;times zone setting) + process side of cfc + potential for content deviation in any platform. 19:25:37 ack jenn 19:26:20 q+ 19:27:30 Jennifer: I found threading by topic in slack can be beneficial. I may try to have designated email box for threading purpose. 19:28:08 a personal challenge i have is device. meetings and email are more restrictive, where i have greater access across more devices using other tools. 19:28:13 sorry, i have to drop @2:30 19:28:58 sajkaj: filtering rules and different view setup may be helpful. 19:29:34 Jennifer: I had the problem with those rule settings and more in mobile device. 19:29:40 Device is likely my issue, too, as I primarily do email on my mobile device — and it ignores the rules I set. Mobile device allows me to narrow focus to help my cognitive considerations. 19:29:46 ack faz 19:29:51 agenda? 19:30:01 david: 1. participation factor- huge group 19:30:34 WG members and Community groups members. 19:31:45 2. moving different platform will also pose challenges for the people which we are not sure to participate the meeting. 19:31:58 s/which/. also 19:32:24 ack wilco 19:32:58 Q+ 19:33:19 wilco: challenge for lack of moderator, labeling issues may not be enough with email system 19:33:24 but if we push for personalization, which we do in coga, email filters are better 19:33:27 ack jenn 19:33:35 zakim, close queue 19:33:35 ok, jeanne, the speaker queue is closed 19:33:46 Note to moderated tooling: We can do that with email, too 19:34:20 +1 19:34:22 jennifer: I support what David and Wilco mentioned 19:34:28 zakim, next item 19:34:28 agendum 1 -- reminder of Silver Decision Policy CFC -- taken up [from jeanne] 19:34:39 zakim, take up item 3 19:34:39 agendum 3 -- Reminder of Teleconference meeting schedule change survey -- taken up [from jeanne] 19:34:45 zakim, take up next 19:34:45 agendum 3 was just opened, jeanne 19:35:22 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-silver/2021Jan/0033.html 19:35:31 jeanne: reminder to respond the teleconference meeting schedule survey 19:35:54 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/94845/schedule-Jan2021/ 19:36:30 no questions on the survey from the group 19:36:33 zakim, take up next 19:36:33 agendum 1 -- reminder of Silver Decision Policy CFC -- taken up [from jeanne] 19:36:43 zakim, close item 1 19:36:43 agendum 1, reminder of Silver Decision Policy CFC, closed 19:36:44 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda: 19:36:44 4. Continue updates to Silver Requirements [from jeanne] 19:36:52 zakim, take up next 19:36:52 agendum 4 -- Continue updates to Silver Requirements -- taken up [from jeanne] 19:37:10 https://www.w3.org/2021/01/12-silver-minutes.html#t04 19:37:27 +1 me too 19:37:35 /me me 3, they're nice 19:37:39 jeanne: btwm I am enjoying new minutes format. 19:37:49 https://www.w3.org/2021/01/12-silver-minutes.html#t04 19:37:54 s/btwm/btw 19:38:56 Proposal: All Silver guidance includes tests or procedures. Some guidance may use true/false verification but other guidance may use other ways of measuring (for example: rubrics, sliding scale, task-completion, user research with people with disabilities, and more) where appropriate so that more needs of people with disabilities can be included. This includes particular attention to 19:38:56 accessibility for limited vision, and cognitive and learning disabilities, whose needs can be better met with a broad testing approach. 19:39:46 Suggest moving "... may use other ..." to "... will use other ..." 19:39:53 q+ 19:40:14 should we mention that 19:40:26 q+ 19:40:44 ack wil 19:40:50 sajkaj: we need to put emphasis that we are leaving the binary world, just pass and fail 19:40:58 +1 to Wilco 19:41:07 ack faz 19:41:28 whose needs "can be" better met with a broad testing approach as "may be" 19:41:30 q+ 19:41:49 ack racha 19:42:20 wilko: I would like to suggest add hard of hearing to cover more disability. 19:42:31 q+ 19:43:47 rachael: because those two groups, accessibility for limited vision, and cognitive and learning disabilities, have more challenges than other groups. 19:43:53 ack saj 19:46:53 It helps confirm comprehension 19:48:17 saj: hard of hearing is addressed at media a11y so on.. It is not correct that there is less need for hard of hearing just because there is no taskforce on the topic. Actually there was a compliant at WAI list why there is no voice synchronization in WCAG. therefore, Time text issue was addressed 19:49:02 +1 to broader approach 19:49:05 +q 19:49:12 q+ 19:49:33 That was a part of the charter approval 19:49:41 this last time around 19:49:47 ack jemma 19:49:51 jema: Thanks janina for description of work on hearing and deaf needs 19:50:15 jema: And now understand the list in the statement isn't dispositive but exemplary 19:50:36 jema: It just needs to be clear what is meant 19:50:42 I'll look for the charter reference 19:50:58 Suggestion: This includes particular attention to those disabilities whose needs can better be met with a broad testing approach, such as those with low vision, limited vision, and cognitive and learning disabilities. 19:51:24 I'd omit disability 19:51:55 Suggestion: This includes particular attention to those whose needs can better be met with a broad testing approach, such as those with low vision, limited vision, and cognitive and learning disabilities. 19:52:01 q+ 19:52:27 ack rach 19:52:43 All Silver guidance includes tests or procedures. Some guidance may use true/false verification but other guidance will use other ways of measuring (for example: rubrics, sliding scale, task-completion, user research with people with disabilities, and more) where appropriate so that more needs of people with disabilities can be included. This includes particular attention to those disabilities 19:52:43 whose needs can better be met with a broad testing approach, such as those with low vision, limited vision, and cognitive and learning disabilities. 19:52:49 agenda? 19:53:36 I support the rephrase of the sentence. thanks Jeanne! 19:53:36 q+ 19:53:50 ack rach 19:54:55 rachael: note has the standing for sure. r 19:55:00 s/r/ 19:55:51 Rachael: W3 notes are sometimes referenced so concern is warranted. Fine line with wording needed as we have to recongnize a need to imrpove but at the same time recognize the incredible value and importance of WCAG 2. I think this wording walks that line. 19:56:12 0 19:56:18 +1 to Rachael 19:57:03 All Silver guidance includes tests or procedures. Some guidance may use true/false verification but other guidance will use other ways of measuring (for example: rubrics, sliding scale, task-completion, user research with people with disabilities, and more) where appropriate so that more needs of people with disabilities may be included. This includes particular attention to those disabilities 19:57:03 whose needs can better be met with a broad testing approach, such as people with low vision, limited vision, and cognitive and learning disabilities. 19:57:07 rrsagent, make minutes 19:57:07 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/15-silver-minutes.html Jemma 19:57:18 +1 19:57:29 +1 19:57:33 q+ to say the change from may use true/false to will use true/false didn't happen 19:57:36 +1 19:58:18 q- 19:58:41 All Silver guidance includes tests or procedures. Some guidance may use true/false verification but other guidance will use other ways of measuring (for example: rubrics, sliding scale, task-completion, user research with people with disabilities, and more) where appropriate so that more needs of people with disabilities may be included. This includes particular attention to those disabilities 19:58:41 whose needs may better be met with a broad testing approach, such as people with low vision, limited vision, and cognitive and learning disabilities. 19:58:49 +1 19:58:49 +1 19:58:53 +1 19:58:54 0 19:58:59 The wording is off... I think the first "disabilities" needs to be deleted. 20:00:46 This includes particular attention to those people with disabilities whose needs may better be met with a broad testing approach, such as people with low vision, limited vision, and cognitive and learning disabilities. 20:00:55 LOL 20:00:59 I have to drop for another meeting. Agree with Janina about not using "those." 20:01:58 continue on Tuesday. 20:02:03 rrsagent, make minutes 20:02:03 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/15-silver-minutes.html jeanne 20:02:11 I think: This includes particular attention to people whose needs may better be met with a broad testing approach, such as people with low vision, limited vision, and cognitive and learning disabilities. 20:02:56 Proposed for next week: All Silver guidance includes tests or procedures. Some guidance may use true/false verification but other guidance will use other ways of measuring (for example: rubrics, sliding scale, task-completion, user research with people with disabilities, and more) where appropriate so that more needs of people with disabilities may be included. This includes particular 20:02:56 attention to people whose needs may better be met with a broad testing approach, such as people with low vision, limited vision, and cognitive and learning disabilities. 20:06:54 s/make things/make things be complex 20:08:48 s/I found threading/I found that threading 20:09:28 rrsagent, make minutes 20:09:28 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/15-silver-minutes.html jeanne 20:10:07 s/also we are not sure/Also we are not sure how many those people will 20:11:56 rrsagent, make minutes 20:11:56 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/15-silver-minutes.html jeanne 20:12:14 KimD has left #silver 20:13:44 s/put emphasis/put an emphasis 20:16:45 s/+q/ 20:17:31 s/have more challenges than other groups. /have more challenges than other groups with existing WCAG 20:17:48 rrsagent, make minutes 20:17:48 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/15-silver-minutes.html Jemma 20:19:00 s/have more challenges than other groups/have more challenges than other groups with existing WCAG 20:20:43 present+ Rachael 20:22:01 rrsagent, make minutes 20:22:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/15-silver-minutes.html jeanne 20:24:18 regret+ ToddLibby, AngelaHooker, BruceBailey, ChrisLouiselle, KornPeter 20:24:39 rrsagent, make minutes 20:24:39 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/15-silver-minutes.html Jemma 20:36:14 SuzanneTaylor has joined #silver