17:52:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
17:52:45 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/01/07-aria-irc
17:52:47 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:52:48 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn
17:53:02 <jamesn> meeting: ARIA WG
17:53:05 <jamesn> chair: JamesNurthen
17:53:18 <jamesn> agendabot, find agenda
17:53:19 <agendabot> jamesn, OK. This may take a minute...
17:53:23 <agendabot> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2021Jan/0034.html
17:53:23 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:53:23 <agendabot> agenda+ New Issue Triage<https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fsearch%3Fl%3D%26q%3Dis%253Aopen%2Bis%253Aissue%2Brepo%253Aw3c%252Faria%2Bcreated%253A%253E%253D2020-12-17%2Brepo%253Aw3c%252Faria%2Brepo%253Aw3c%252Faccname%2Brepo%253Aw3c%252Fcore-
17:53:24 <agendabot> ...
17:53:25 <agendabot> ... aam%26type%3DIssues&data=04%7C01%7Ciali%40ets.org%7Ca58e8e32def84795972d08d8b323cdbb%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C637456313658249466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=DLq6YdaWxDnx1d5aO21lZrWoGUf4actlt2VI6%2Bdy
17:53:30 <agendabot> ... nGk%3D&reserved=0>
17:53:32 <agendabot> agenda+ New PR Triage<https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fsearch%3Fl%3D%26q%3Dis%253Aopen%2Bis%253Apr%2Brepo%253Aw3c%252Faria%2Bcreated%253A%253E%253D2020-12-17%2Brepo%253Aw3c%252Faria%2Brepo%253Aw3c%252Faccname%2Brepo%253Aw3c%252Fcore-
17:53:36 <agendabot> ...
17:53:39 <agendabot> ... aam%26type%3DIssues&data=04%7C01%7Ciali%40ets.org%7Ca58e8e32def84795972d08d8b323cdbb%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C637456313658249466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=8gs%2Bge6wxInt%2BjJdPxZj5RhofrQw%2FOJXkCBi
17:53:43 <agendabot> ... AaDZTas%3D&reserved=0>
17:53:46 <agendabot> agenda+ Meaty topic for next week<https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dis%253Aopen%2Brepo%253Aw3c%252Faria%2Brepo%253Aw3c%252Faria%2Brepo%253Aw3c%252Faccname%2Brepo%253Aw3c%252Fcore-aam%2Blabel%253Adeep-
17:53:50 <agendabot> ...
17:53:52 <agendabot> ... dive%26type%3DIssues&data=04%7C01%7Ciali%40ets.org%7Ca58e8e32def84795972d08d8b323cdbb%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C637456313658259460%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=89jJTPwEuMIeoI5k5ItSqlky2SunkOP95kJjkOE%2
17:53:57 <agendabot> ... Bmvo%3D&reserved=0>
17:53:59 <agendabot> agenda+ Changing minutes from email to github?
17:54:01 <agendabot> agenda+ Privacy
17:54:04 <agendabot> ... Statement<https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Faria%2Fissues&data=04%7C01%7Ciali%40ets.org%7Ca58e8e32def84795972d08d8b323cdbb%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C637456313658259460%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM
17:54:08 <agendabot> ... zIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=pUwhX0NYh87%2FbHhH8wKNgSFjEWZLv95JC58TwF63ijM%3D&reserved=0>
17:54:11 <agendabot> agenda+ Accname & self-reference aria-labelledby<https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.w3.org%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fpublic-
17:54:15 <agendabot> ...
17:54:17 <agendabot> ... aria%2F2021Jan%2F0000.html&data=04%7C01%7Ciali%40ets.org%7Ca58e8e32def84795972d08d8b323cdbb%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C637456313658269465%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=aHQheTIaZuWlWq4%2Fjs0Rl3y%2BoZm%2Bm
17:54:22 <agendabot> ... fY99eS%2BTVfqDTE%3D&reserved=0>
17:54:24 <agendabot> agenda+ Updated aria-setsize and aria-posinset to clarify usage for
17:54:27 <agendabot> ... authors<https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Faria%2Fpull%2F1332&data=04%7C01%7Ciali%40ets.org%7Ca58e8e32def84795972d08d8b323cdbb%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C637456313658269465%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2
17:54:31 <agendabot> ... luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ycAfDaX9LfeMYzIcd01ytSlhC2kxkZ0kJ37UjaJ5btE%3D&reserved=0>
17:54:34 <agendabot> agenda+ Consider addition of a property for input controls to provide untranslated Unicode Braille Patterns
17:54:37 <agendabot> ... (U+2800..U+28FF)<https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Faria%2Fissues%2F771&data=04%7C01%7Ciali%40ets.org%7Ca58e8e32def84795972d08d8b323cdbb%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C637456313658279450%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAi
17:54:42 <agendabot> ... LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=i5HswK5dlZeFGoW7rxIrk64Pqx%2BVvGJgaFb2ZO2VFWs%3D&reserved=0>
17:54:45 <agendabot> agenda+ 1.3 triage<https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Faria%2Fissues%3Fq%3Dis%253Aopen%2Bis%253Aissue%2Bmilestone%253A%2522ARIA%2B1.3%2522%2Bno%253Aproject%2Bsort%253Acreated-
17:54:49 <agendabot> ... asc&data=04%7C01%7Ciali%40ets.org%7Ca58e8e32def84795972d08d8b323cdbb%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C637456313658279450%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=UKK0sTT53giLnuxjVhF0I0O8M59CIpk4oN2e9xkrt6c%3D&reserved=0>
17:55:09 <jamesn> zakim, clear agenda
17:55:09 <Zakim> agenda cleared
17:55:21 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:55:21 <agendabot> agenda+ New Issue Triage<https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2020-12-17+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues>
17:55:21 <agendabot> agenda+ New PR Triage<https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2020-12-17+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues>
17:55:22 <agendabot> agenda+ Meaty topic for next week<https://github.com/search?q=is%3Aopen+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam+label%3Adeep-dive&type=Issues>
17:55:25 <agendabot> agenda+ Changing minutes from email to github?
17:55:27 <agendabot> agenda+ Privacy Statement<https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues>
17:55:30 <agendabot> agenda+ Accname & self-reference aria-labelledby<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2021Jan/0000.html>
17:55:33 <agendabot> agenda+ Updated aria-setsize and aria-posinset to clarify usage for authors<https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1332>
17:55:36 <agendabot> agenda+ Consider addition of a property for input controls to provide untranslated Unicode Braille Patterns (U+2800..U+28FF)<https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/771>
17:55:40 <agendabot> agenda+ 1.3 triage<https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone%3A%22ARIA+1.3%22+no%3Aproject+sort%3Acreated-asc>
18:02:39 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
18:04:32 <carmacleod> carmacleod has joined #aria
18:04:43 <carmacleod> present+
18:05:21 <harris> harris has joined #aria
18:05:26 <Jemma> present+
18:07:56 <carmacleod> scribe: carmacleod
18:09:57 <carmacleod> regrets+ Sarah_Higley, Curt_Bellew, Scott_OHara, Irfan_Ali, Peter_Krautzberger
18:10:07 <MarkMccarthy> MarkMccarthy has joined #aria
18:10:13 <MarkMccarthy> present+
18:10:35 <jcraig> present+
18:10:42 <harris> present+
18:11:06 <carmacleod> zakim, next item
18:11:06 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- New Issue Triage<https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2020-12-17+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fc
18:11:09 <Zakim> ... ore-aam&type=Issues> -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:11:28 <carmacleod> https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2020-12-17+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues
18:12:03 <msumner> present+
18:12:38 <Matt_King> Matt_King has joined #aria
18:12:43 <Jemma> present+
18:13:10 <Matt_King> present+
18:14:17 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1379
18:15:40 <carmacleod> Harris: I can volunteer to refactor out jQuery
18:17:17 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1378
18:17:23 <carmacleod> jamesn: 1.4
18:17:32 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1376
18:18:03 <carmacleod> Should just be merged into #995
18:18:42 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1373
18:20:59 <carmacleod> zakim, next item
18:20:59 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- New PR Triage<https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2020-12-17+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aa
18:21:02 <Zakim> ... m&type=Issues> -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:21:09 <carmacleod> https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2020-12-17+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues
18:23:53 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/pull/86
18:24:13 <carmacleod> joanie: It needs tests and UA agreement
18:25:08 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1375
18:25:34 <carmacleod> jamesn: Is this editorial enough that I can merge this?
18:28:53 <carmacleod> jcraig: Do we need to define containing? No, it's ok.
18:28:59 <carmacleod> zakim, next item
18:28:59 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Meaty topic for next week<https://github.com/search?q=is%3Aopen+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam+label%3Adeep-dive&type=I
18:29:02 <Zakim> ... ssues> -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:31:49 <carmacleod> jamesn: User actions next week
18:31:52 <jcraig> scribe: jcraig
18:32:19 <jcraig> jamesn: accname not on the deep dive agenda yet... just user actions #2
18:32:24 <jcraig> zakim, next item
18:32:24 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Changing minutes from email to github? -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:33:59 <jcraig> jamesn: considering storing meeting minutes in GH. any objections?
18:34:01 <jcraig> car
18:34:14 <jcraig> s/car/carmacleod: no pref
18:34:43 <jcraig> Matt_King: easy to find with a wiki page
18:34:57 <jcraig> Jemma: +1 to github
18:35:04 <jcraig> q+
18:35:20 <jcraig> jamesn: could also send an email link to GH page
18:35:36 <jcraig> carmacleod: does W3C have a req for minutes?
18:35:45 <jcraig> jamesn: no w3c req
18:36:34 <jcraig> sill using zakim, but new bot to cross reference them to GH
18:36:45 <jcraig> s/sill/still
18:37:11 <jcraig> ack me
18:38:20 <jcraig> jcraig: chair's prerogative as long as it's accessible. but I also think it's a good idea
18:38:43 <jcraig> carmacleod: could also work into future idea of using auto-generated transcript
18:38:55 <jcraig> zakim. next item
18:39:00 <jcraig> zakim, next item
18:39:00 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Privacy Statement<https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues> -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:39:06 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1371
18:40:06 <jcraig> Detectability of assistive technology #1371
18:40:33 <jcraig> jamesn: not a blocker to 1.2 (consensus and agreement from OP)
18:41:03 <jcraig> propose that we add a privacy section before wide-review draft of 1.3
18:41:31 <jcraig> meet in ARIA prior to joint meeting with Privacy group, prior to drafting the new section
18:41:36 <jcraig> Jemma: +1
18:41:43 <jcraig> carmacleod: +1
18:42:39 <jcraig> also review Leonie's comment in design principles: "that principle 2.7 from the TAG WebPlatform Design Principles](https://w3ctag.github.io/design-principles/) is referenced."
18:42:41 <Jemma> https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Legal/privacy-statement-20140324
18:44:49 <Isabel> Isabel has joined #aria
18:48:09 <jcraig> Matt_King: will other specs get accessibility mentions in other specs..
18:48:16 <jcraig> jamesn: likely, yes
18:48:38 <jcraig> MichaelC_: could get WHATWG to include it too...
18:48:43 <jcraig> zakim, next item
18:48:43 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Accname & self-reference aria-labelledby<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2021Jan/0000.html> -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:50:10 <jcraig> related to this Chromium issue: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1159567
18:50:49 <jcraig> Bryan G's harness and the 3 major browsers all differ in their results...  unfortunate.
18:51:53 <jcraig> Matt_King: the algorithm seems out of sync with _that_ example
18:52:32 <jcraig> carmacleod: pointed out that Firefox is wrong. everyone agrees that it should be choice a in example referenced:
18:52:45 <jcraig> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/mQ3sTcEv/
18:52:53 <jamesn> If traversal of the current node is due to recursion and the current node is an embedded control as defined in step 2E, ignore aria-label and skip to rule 2E.
18:53:13 <jcraig> Aaron L refernced AccName 2E
18:53:45 <jcraig> s/refernced AccName 2E/referenced AccName 2E (quoting here in prior line)/
18:54:15 <jcraig> so dispute between Options A and B
18:54:46 <jcraig> Aaron contending the value should replace aria-label
18:55:00 <msumner> q+
18:55:42 <jcraig> joanie mentioned if you read recursion the way Aaron is, you would end up with a different example entirely
18:56:07 <jamesn> q+ Bryan
18:56:09 <joanie> s/example entirely/result entirely/
18:56:13 <jamesn> ack ms
18:56:13 <jcraig> Matt_King: I feel like the spec if clear, but the algorithm is hard to read
18:56:31 <jcraig> msumner: what do users prefer?
18:56:45 <jcraig> jamesn: or what did the author intend?
18:56:56 <jcraig> ack msumner
18:57:00 <jamesn> ack bry
18:58:10 <jcraig> bryan: current node can't include itself (as root node) so it excludes itself... remove that and it will always include the value with every change...
18:58:29 <jcraig> Matt_King: how does the self referencing example work
18:59:01 <jcraig> Bryan: it doesn't.. we need an explicit exclusion for self-referencing items
18:59:30 <jcraig> jamesn: which step that includes total accumulated text cannot re-reference themselves
18:59:59 <jcraig> Bryan: states later that nodes (strings?) can only be included once
19:00:15 <jcraig> jamesn: that note is specific to its own section
19:00:46 <jcraig> Bryan: total accumulated text refers to the total for the root node in the algo
19:01:40 <jcraig> "up to but not including the current node" how that that be if its not the current node? the current node has moved at the point of dispute.
19:03:08 <jcraig> carmacleod: we need to decide is the example should work, and then determine changes... I did not find an elegant way to do this. anyone else?
19:03:48 <jcraig> Bryan: we should add an exclusion
19:04:12 <jcraig> jcraig: propose Bryan take assignment of the issue
19:04:39 <jcraig> action: jamesn to file issue and assign to bryan
19:06:17 <jcraig> rrsagent, make minutes
19:06:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/07-aria-minutes.html jcraig
19:06:23 <jamesn> zakim, who is on the call?
19:06:23 <Zakim> Present: Joanmarie_Diggs, carmacleod, Jemma, MarkMccarthy, jcraig, harris, msumner, Matt_King
19:07:05 <jcraig> rrsagent, make minutes
19:07:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/07-aria-minutes.html jcraig
19:07:07 <carmacleod> regrets
19:07:37 <carmacleod> regrets+ Sina_Bahram
19:07:51 <carmacleod> rrsagent, make minutes
19:07:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/07-aria-minutes.html carmacleod