13:56:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #idcg
13:56:43 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/12/01-idcg-irc
13:56:47 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #idcg
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13:57:06 <koalie> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-idcg/2020Nov/0023.html
13:57:08 <agendabot> clear agenda
13:57:08 <agendabot> agenda+ Merge the IDCG and PWECG?
13:57:08 <agendabot> agenda+ Progress on actions.
13:57:28 <lutgendorff> lutgendorff has joined #idcg
13:57:30 <koalie> meeting: IDCG meeting
13:57:41 <koalie> -> https://www.w3.org/2020/11/17-idcg-minutes.html Previous (2020-11-17)
13:57:45 <koalie> chair: Léonie
13:57:50 <koalie> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:58:59 <tzviya> present+
13:59:43 <tink> zakim, agenda?
13:59:43 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
13:59:44 <Zakim> 1. Merge the IDCG and PWECG? [from agendabot]
13:59:44 <Zakim> 2. Progress on actions. [from agendabot]
14:00:00 <wseltzer> regrets+
14:00:05 <wendyreid> wendyreid has joined #idcg
14:01:16 <koalie> present+ Coralie
14:01:22 <wendyreid> present+
14:01:29 <koalie> scribenick: koalie
14:01:38 <dka_> present+ Dan_Appelquist
14:01:45 <dka_> present+ Laura_Morinigo
14:01:54 <dka_> present+ Lola_Odelola
14:02:21 <koalie> present+ tink
14:02:33 <koalie> present+ lutgendorff
14:02:53 <Judy> Judy has joined #idcg
14:02:55 <koalie> [Léonie reminds the participants of meeting minutiae]
14:03:13 <lola> lola has joined #idcg
14:03:13 <koalie> Léonie: Let's do introductions around the room as we have a few newcomers
14:03:17 <koalie> ... warm welcome to all of you
14:03:24 <koalie> Topic: Introductions
14:03:33 <koalie> Léonie: I'm Léonie Watson, AC rep of Tetralogical at W3C
14:03:41 <koalie> ... co-chair of the IDCG and Web@@
14:04:19 <koalie> Coralie: @@
14:04:33 <koalie> Wendy: I'm the chair of the Publishing and Audiobook groups
14:04:49 <koalie> Dan: I'm the co-chair of the TAG, work at Samsung and I'm in the UK, in London
14:05:00 <dka_> present+ Ada_Cannon
14:05:01 <koalie> Estella: I work at a research group in catalunya
14:05:12 <koalie> ... accessibility and web accessibility
14:05:16 <koalie> ... work with European projects
14:05:37 <koalie> Laura: I work at the samsung internet advocacy group
14:05:51 <koalie> Liz: Part of the digital gov service in the UK
14:06:08 <koalie> ... no part of any other group yet
14:06:15 <koalie> ... will need to leave at half-past
14:06:28 <koalie> Lola: developer advocate at samsung
14:06:40 <koalie> ... I have experience in non-profit and civic-tech space
14:06:47 <koalie> ... I also help black women get into tech
14:07:03 <koalie> ... I run a podcast and blog about this in the industry
14:07:16 <koalie> Nishad: I'm an Indian in Japan
14:07:27 <koalie> ... I work with the @@ community
14:07:37 <koalie> ... I work with datasets, interop
14:08:08 <koalie> Tzviya: I am co-chair of the publishing steering committee and audiogroup wg, chair of the pwe cg
14:08:17 <koalie> Ada: I'm another person from samsung
14:08:24 <koalie> ... I did some work with the PWE TF
14:08:30 <koalie> ... I'm one of the authors of the current CEPC
14:08:35 <koalie> ... chair of the Immersive WG
14:08:50 <koalie> Tobie: I've been involved with W3C on and off for a long time
14:09:16 <koalie> Zakim, take up item 1
14:09:16 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Merge the IDCG and PWECG?" taken up [from agendabot]
14:09:45 <tobie> tobie has joined #idcg
14:09:45 <koalie> Léonie: let's consider if this group should merge with Positive Work Environment CG
14:10:05 <koalie> ... suggestion came in the wake of Coralie and I announcing we're stepping down as co-chair at the end of December
14:10:11 <koalie> ... we put out a call for volunteers
14:10:18 <koalie> ... the missions of the two groups overlap
14:10:30 <koalie> Tzviya: since someone contacted me about this, I'll add that
14:10:38 <koalie> ... PWE is focusing on the code of ethics
14:10:42 <koalie> ... and the ombuds program
14:10:43 <Nishad> Nishad has joined #idcg
14:10:51 <koalie> ... other than that, our objective is the same
14:10:58 <koalie> ... make W3C more positive, more inclusive
14:11:06 <koalie> ... and our membership has overlap too
14:11:10 <koalie> ... I think it's a good idea
14:11:21 <koalie> Léonie: I want to open this up for those here to think about
14:11:40 <koalie> Dan: I'd like to be optimistic about this proposal!
14:11:51 <koalie> ... seems to be making good use of people's time
14:11:56 <koalie> ... the code of conduct is done now
14:12:17 <koalie> ... it feels like the merged group would not be dominated by the development of a new code of conduct
14:12:23 <koalie> ... this feels like this would be a good move
14:13:08 <koalie> Léonie: From my pov as current co-chair of this group
14:13:09 <ada> ada has joined #idcg
14:13:15 <koalie> ... I think this is a great idea
14:13:24 <koalie> ... I have looked at the activity of the PWE CG
14:13:32 <koalie> ... there's a lot of common ground
14:13:43 <koalie> ... there are distinct areas as Tzviya said
14:13:58 <koalie> ... seems worth exploring to me!
14:14:21 <koalie> Lola: I had a question about objectives of the 2 groups
14:14:26 <koalie> ... I understand they're both similar
14:14:32 <koalie> ... in what the outcome we want
14:14:39 <koalie> ... what was the objective of this group and that group?
14:16:22 <koalie> Coralie: @@will fill out later@@
14:16:36 <koalie> Léonie: the remit was then for W3C to become more welcoming
14:16:45 <koalie> ... we would like more people from more communities to join us
14:16:50 <koalie> ... we look at the language we use
14:16:57 <koalie> ... the practices we have
14:17:33 <koalie> Liz: maybe combining efforts would help progress work
14:17:51 <koalie> ... from my perspective, as we struggle with this at GDS too, this is worth exploring
14:18:11 <koalie> Tzviya: Both groups changed mission over time
14:18:12 <estella> estella has joined #idcg
14:18:28 <koalie> ... PWE is shifting to looking at the ombuds program
14:19:04 <koalie> ... IDCG two years ago was only focusing on women alone
14:19:14 <koalie> ... but in the meantime it has come to the fore at W3C
14:19:23 <koalie> WendyR: Merging the 2 groups is a good idea
14:19:42 <koalie> ... it's a good idea at this kind of phase in both groups
14:20:11 <koalie> ... inforcement of CEPC should be done through the lense of inclusion
14:20:18 <dka_>  +1
14:20:23 <koalie> ... It's a perfect moment
14:20:27 <koalie> <koalie> +1
14:21:09 <koalie> Lola: A concern of mine (but I'm brand new here):
14:21:38 <koalie> ... if the PWECG has already a large undertaking, will there be capacity for what the IDCG wanted to achieve?
14:21:51 <koalie> ... will that stretch the team in a way that would be unproductive?
14:21:54 <koalie> Léonie: good point
14:22:02 <koalie> ... my immediate thought on the question is that the team is already the same
14:22:31 <koalie> ... there are so many people that attend both sets of meeting, until so many new people turned up here today!
14:22:49 <koalie> Tzviya: by merging we can have the same group of people assess that capacity
14:23:12 <koalie> Laura: I have a question related to how you actually organise the group
14:23:18 <koalie> ... is the other CG open?
14:23:36 <koalie> ... do you work with other communities outside W3C to invite other people at least as listeners?
14:23:41 <koalie> Tzviya: yes, the PWECG is open
14:23:47 <koalie> ... we have not done much outreach yet
14:23:50 <koalie> ... we're open to that
14:24:04 <koalie> ... but asking people outside of W3C to volunteer their time had not occured to me :D
14:24:33 <koalie> Léonie: yes, both groups work in a similar manner
14:24:44 <koalie> ... same characteristics whether the groups stay separate of merge.
14:24:53 <koalie> present+ Judy
14:25:13 <koalie> Judy: I had seen the suggestion to merge these groups
14:25:32 <koalie> ... There's so much to do in each area that I thought some may be lost but there's so much overlapping
14:25:42 <koalie> ... and there even are overlapping wiki areas
14:25:52 <koalie> ... and overlapping sentiment from my perspective
14:26:09 <koalie> ... it would be possible to have specific focus on different meetings
14:26:30 <koalie> [Dan nodded; Coralie too]
14:26:50 <koalie> Judy: we may end up with sub-groups discussions
14:26:56 <koalie> ... I'm interested in both groups
14:27:08 <koalie> ... I'm Judy Brewer from W3C team
14:27:17 <koalie> ... happy to help the groups
14:27:31 <koalie> Léonie: before Liz heads off, quick straw poll
14:27:33 <koalie> ====
14:27:40 <koalie> sub-topic: straw-poll
14:28:31 <koalie> Leonie: hands up in zoom if you are in favour of merging?
14:28:37 <koalie> [10 out of 13]
14:29:14 <koalie> Leonie: anybody against?
14:29:15 <koalie> [none]
14:29:20 <koalie> s/[10/[11/
14:29:26 <koalie> ====
14:29:30 <koalie> Dan: next steps?
14:29:40 <koalie> ... combined charter? if so can I offer my help?
14:29:56 <koalie> Léonie: Tzviya needs to have that same conversation in the PWECG
14:30:11 <koalie> Tzviya: I suspect there will be similar sentiment, to be confirmed
14:30:21 <koalie> ... I will take you up Dan if we think we need a charter!
14:30:25 <koalie> dka++
14:30:34 <koalie> Léonie: a charter seems like a good idea
14:30:36 <koalie> [Liz departs]
14:30:42 <koalie> Zakim, close this item
14:30:42 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
14:30:43 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
14:30:43 <Zakim> 2. Progress on actions. [from agendabot]
14:30:48 <koalie> Zakim, take up next item
14:30:50 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Progress on actions." taken up [from agendabot]
14:30:58 <tink> https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/
14:31:56 <koalie> https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/8
14:33:31 <koalie> Coralie: @@report
14:34:05 <koalie> Judy: we may have a problem if W3C is unable to pay/reimburse
14:34:33 <koalie> ... it may be that with our different hosts and financial options we can find ways to do that
14:36:29 <koalie> Coralie: manage fund elsewere is on the table as part of this issue
14:36:43 <koalie> Léonie: this year we failed to do anything we set out for this diversity fund
14:38:10 <koalie> Dan: possibility to use open collective to manage that fund?
14:38:32 <koalie> ... that alternative could have more flexibility
14:38:37 <koalie> WendyR: I like that idea
14:38:59 <koalie> ... one of the questions we had this year was whether we were going to have the same problems as last year
14:39:03 <koalie> ... but this year was particular
14:39:20 <koalie> ... the pandemic has shaken everything up, we had few applications
14:39:32 <tzviya> +1 to wendyreid
14:39:40 <koalie> ... any care wasn't allowed due to pandemic regulations
14:40:07 <koalie> ... we need to solve this funding issue: if we can't deliver funds to people who need them, it's useless
14:40:58 <koalie> Coralie: I'm interested in Dan's suggestion
14:41:26 <koalie> ... I'm interesting in hearing more about how opencollective can help redistribute funds (as opposed to just collecting funds)
14:41:33 <koalie> Dan: Jory Burson has more experience
14:41:49 <koalie> Tobie: associated 503c3 in the US
14:42:06 <koalie> Léonie: that might work
14:42:33 <koalie> Judy: I wanted to suggest that we re-explore the payments through w3c issue
14:42:41 <koalie> ... I've paid similar services in the past
14:44:12 <koalie> Léonie: we encountered problems eventhough we set ourselves up the best we could to NOT have them
14:44:28 <koalie> https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/26
14:45:17 <koalie> https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/24#issuecomment-661801816
14:46:24 <koalie> Tzviya: I think the text needs to be updated
14:46:30 <koalie> ... in the discussion on another issue
14:46:43 <koalie> ... I had suggested adding something about black lives matter
14:46:56 <koalie> ... to the statement, or at least who it is the Web is for
14:47:10 <koalie> ... it talks about web for all, and different categories
14:47:14 <koalie> ... there are lots of things
14:47:23 <koalie> ... this would be a good place to mention BLM
14:47:29 <koalie> ... we don't mention race there
14:47:59 <koalie> Tobie: the wording behind my proposed rewording:
14:48:16 <koalie> ... there was somewhere in our BLM something that looked like the W3C statement
14:48:24 <koalie> ... the suggestion was to use the W3C's value statement
14:48:33 <koalie> ... which happened to be needing an update
14:48:42 <koalie> ... what we have needs fixing
14:48:48 <koalie> ... the fix wasn't mine
14:48:59 <koalie> Léonie: I agree this needs to be updated
14:49:04 <rhiaro> regrets+
14:49:12 <koalie> ... "physical and mental ability" is outdated language
14:49:30 <koalie> ... we talk more about cognitive than mental ability
14:49:50 <koalie> ... I agree with what Tobie and Tzviya said
14:50:00 <koalie> ... whether the proposed words are right, probably not
14:50:04 <koalie> ... but if we can we should update it
14:50:14 <Judy> +1 to Leonie that the disability language should be updated
14:50:37 <estella> +1 to update language
14:50:38 <koalie> Léonie: should we close this issue and open a new one?
14:50:48 <koalie> <koalie> +1 to updateing the language
14:51:17 <koalie> s/teing/ting/
14:51:34 <koalie> [we're keeping this open]
14:51:43 <koalie> https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/27
14:52:26 <koalie> Coralie: @@
14:55:38 <koalie> Lola: why can't we have both, why either/or (re: blm)
14:55:54 <koalie> ... statement and actions
14:56:00 <koalie> ... a statement holds the org accountable
14:56:31 <koalie> ... valuable and will show the black community that W3C cares
14:56:56 <koalie> ... such a statement could make w3c more knonw in the black community
14:57:04 <dka_> +1
14:57:15 <koalie> Judy: there's room for taking a fresh look at the statement
14:57:24 <koalie> ... we have some credible actions lined up
14:57:35 <koalie> ... so that the statement could be linked to things we're doing
14:57:42 <wendyreid> +1 to Lola's point
14:57:51 <koalie> ... your point about getting something out there to increase accountability is helpful
14:57:58 <koalie> Tzviya: I agree
14:58:10 <koalie> ... I'm not convinced this CG should be writing it
14:58:19 <koalie> ... as this requires W3c review again
14:58:27 <koalie> ... we're likely to get the same feedback
14:58:36 <koalie> ... we could write a draft
14:58:51 <koalie> ... and W3C could take this through AC review
14:59:03 <estella> +1 to Lola's point and to Tzviya approach
14:59:13 <koalie> s/W3c review/W3C AC review/
15:01:02 <koalie> Judy: we had strong and positive support overall
15:01:35 <koalie> ... let's be preprared for objections next time
15:01:55 <koalie> Laura: is there a way to follow what happened to the statement?
15:01:59 <lola> https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/Draft-BLM-statement
15:02:06 <koalie> Léonie: The statement in on our wiki ^^
15:02:16 <koalie> ... the reasons the statement stalled were two-fold
15:02:32 <koalie> ... Kim CReighton's feedback that it wasn't going to achieve as is what we wanted it to
15:02:40 <koalie> ... and there was one formal objection from the AC
15:03:15 <koalie> Léonie: Let's close this issue but a parting shot: it seems there is consideration we should continue with a statement
15:03:19 <koalie> ... we would need a v2
15:03:34 <koalie> Topic: next meeting
15:03:47 <koalie> [December 15]
15:03:49 <koalie> rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
15:03:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/12/01-idcg-minutes.html koalie