<sharon> scribe: Lisa
<LisaSeemanKest> alice still has some issues with distraction and media quiry
<LisaSeemanKest> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/476
<LisaSeemanKest> can't imagine why the advertiser or the site would be prepared to make it easier for all users to evade such an ad by annotating it, without some way to make up the implied loss of revenue to the site, or some stronger incentive to outweigh the revenue concern.
<LisaSeemanKest> In other words, unfortunately I think the distraction attribute is at risk of not being used on distracting ads in practice.
<LisaSeemanKest> Also, I mentioned the prefers-reduced-motion media query, rather than ARIA - did you have a chance to evaluate the overlap in user needs there?
<becky> scribe: becky
Lisa: need to clarify that the
needs of some users are different from other users. Some are
okay with noise and others are not. Marking up the content
allows people to customize.
... education site may have items that will distract some
people and need to be identified
Janina: I don't think there is much overlap with media queries - reduces motion is for people who are distracted specifically by motion; our use case goes further
Sharon: agree reduce motion media query is specifically for motion; I agree with Janina, there are other distractions that are not motion
Lisa: cross advertisements can be
useful for some people (searching for screw driver and also get
info about screws) but for other people it may be overwhelming
noise or distracting
... for overly distracted people the advertisement or other
distraction is going to prevent them from completing the action
at all
Janina: distractions came about
first in dept. stores - you can no longer negotiate a straight
path; bump and buy strategy
... want to reply that many people are opposed to
advertisements, they just don't want to be distracted by them
when I am trying to accomplish a task
<LisaSeemanKest> scribe: lisa
<CharlesL> Alice's initial concern: distraction=sensory is a slight exception to this, but has strong overlap with the https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/@media/prefers-reduced-motion - could its intended uses be covered by that existing technology?
Janina: sites use algorithms to place ads, so it wouldn't be hard for sites to mark up; you may have a different pattern for shopping and need to accomplish task first
<LisaSeemanKest> scribe: lisaseemankest
charles: reduced motio is things moving aound, like flyouts
but that isnt all the cases
for example: related products etc
senspory is just one type
sharon: related suggestions in the way of a putuches is not a distraction , and not paying, so it is a good example
lisa: things that go ping
becky: subcribe notices
that block you
lisa: noise on social media?
janina: could we remove sensory?
janinacan you turn sounds off
lisa: i cant stand the pings but if turn off my phone noise becuse people need to talk to me
janina-that might be axilary sounds
charles: our examples are: senroy offer , stk market ticker, countdown time
becky: is that reduced motion
janina: we were not sure media quiries was happening
<becky> scribe: becky
Janina: should consider that there is some overlap with sensory distraction and media queries; but, media queries doesn't handle all of the events we have uncovered - for example audio
Charles: (some discussion of how media queries works);
Sharon: dev. uses the prefers reduced motion on the moving items, and that gets activated when user specifics reduced motion in browser settings
Charles: we are using that for "swoosh" motion, or not, on a website
Janina: I have an issue with
sounds - there is no index of what sounds mean
... perhaps we can trim somethings down in the spec that media
queries will in fact cover
... I can take a stab at explaining this on the list
Sharon: probably a good idea to have an example that goes beyond just motion
Janina: example of big sur (latest Mac OS) making sounds for each notification
Lisa: is there a guideline for OS updates, something that says to keep previous user preferences
Janina: generally OS updates keep settings
<LisaSeemanKest> i can update https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/wiki/actions
Charles: our list of values under
distraction - there are 4 values: sensory, overlay, offer,
messages. Shouldn't audio be one of the values?
... two obvious senses are vision and auditory, but what about
tactile. Do we need to expand the values for distraction to be
be more specific rather than just general "sensory"
Janina: agree we may want to consider
becky: concerned with overload of values
Janina: could solve some of this by publishing an index of these sensory inputs, sound, tactile, etc
Sharon: so because of media query reduced motion do we no longer need to specify motion?
Janina: can thank Alice and let her know we are discussing further
Charles: so need to work through this section and also make reference to media query prefers reduced motion
Sharon: I will create an issue for this
Janina: red-lining hasn't happened, don't believe that we need it for CR; I will get to it
Lisa: it it isn't req. for CR then we should change the status as an ongoing editing item
Roy: we can keep the explainer in
editor draft space; we should update the explainer to make sure
it addresses the first content module thoroughly
... will will update the explainer when we get ready to publish
additional modules
... so okay to keep in working draft mode
Lisa: given that should we merge
in my changes to the explainer?
... I will make a pull request for my changes
Janina: believe we still need to work a bit on the intro.
Roy: spoke with w3c tech directory, we can reference a PDF in the content module, but there are still concerns from legal about patent policy; I will coordinate with legal staff to draft email about patent policy about bliss symbol reference.
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