IRC log of tt on 2020-11-05
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:03:21 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #tt
- 16:03:21 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/11/05-tt-irc
- 16:03:43 [cyril]
- cyril has joined #tt
- 16:03:54 [gkatsev]
- Meeting: Timed Text Working Group
- 16:03:56 [gkatsev]
- Chair: Gary
- 16:04:15 [gkatsev]
- Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/157
- 16:04:21 [atai]
- atai has joined #tt
- 16:04:32 [gkatsev]
- RRSAgent: make log public
- 16:04:36 [gkatsev]
- RRSAgent: draft minutes
- 16:04:36 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/11/05-tt-minutes.html gkatsev
- 16:05:25 [pal]
- pal has joined #tt
- 16:05:33 [gkatsev]
- Topic: This meeting
- 16:07:19 [gkatsev]
- scribe: gkatsev
- 16:07:31 [gkatsev]
- gkatsev: [goes over agenda]
- 16:10:06 [atai]
- q+
- 16:13:14 [gkatsev]
- Topic: Interaction between tts:writingMode and tts:direction on paragraph element. w3c/ttml2#1211
- 16:13:19 [gkatsev]
- gkatsev: we talked about this a month ago
- 16:13:24 [gkatsev]
- pal: plan was going to file new issues
- 16:13:28 [gkatsev]
- .. a new issue was filed
- 16:13:33 [gkatsev]
- .. but there's a disagreement again
- 16:13:37 [gkatsev]
- .. someone needs to take this on and do it before end of the year
- 16:13:55 [gkatsev]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/1212 Remove application of tts:unicodeBidi to tt:p element
- 16:14:07 [gkatsev]
- -> -> https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/1213 Improve interoperability of tts:direction on tt:p with CSS3 implementations
- 16:14:29 [gkatsev]
- atai: a step forward would be to get a concrete proposal and then get consensus that way
- 16:14:48 [gkatsev]
- pal: I agree with title of issue 1212 but description isn't clear
- 16:14:59 [gkatsev]
- pal: I'll create one or two pull requests
- 16:15:46 [gkatsev]
- cyril: we can work on it together
- 16:15:57 [gkatsev]
- ack atai
- 16:16:24 [gkatsev]
- atai: Nigel assumes no one is using a XSL-FO processor
- 16:16:41 [gkatsev]
- .. I think ttpe is using one
- 16:17:40 [gkatsev]
- .. does a joint meeting with CSSWG necessary to conclude this?
- 16:17:55 [gkatsev]
- pal: I think a PR would be helpful to move forward regardless
- 16:18:29 [gkatsev]
- gkatsev: a PR would be nice to make progress
- 16:19:32 [gkatsev]
- Topic: incoming liaison letter from MPEG regarding ISO/IEC 14496-30
- 16:20:43 [atsushi]
- https://www.w3.org/2001/11/StdLiaison#I
- 16:21:12 [atsushi]
- > ISO JTC1/SC 32 (Class C Liaison)
- 16:21:13 [atsushi]
- > XML and Dublin Core Ivan Herman Jim Melton
- 16:25:56 [gkatsev]
- cyril: going over liaison
- 16:26:22 [gkatsev]
- .. people had questions on how to stream TTML with multiple periods in DASH?
- 16:26:48 [gkatsev]
- .. MPEG is seeking clarification with TTWG around usage
- 16:28:43 [gkatsev]
- atai: would be useful to have Mike Dolan on the call
- 16:28:59 [gkatsev]
- cyril: request is what terminology should be used
- 16:31:57 [gkatsev]
- pal: why mention timeline, we should use document time?
- 16:32:09 [gkatsev]
- cyril: timeline is well understood in MPEG
- 16:32:23 [gkatsev]
- .. a TTML has a timeline and you place things on the timeline
- 16:32:28 [gkatsev]
- .. the mp4 has a timeline
- 16:32:34 [gkatsev]
- .. anchor TTML to mp4
- 16:32:40 [gkatsev]
- pal: don't use timeline for TTML.
- 16:32:53 [gkatsev]
- .. Say here's how to map document time in TTML to MPEG time
- 16:33:07 [gkatsev]
- .. All it has is time offsets
- 16:33:46 [gkatsev]
- cyril: still, there's some ambiguity. There's nested time containers in TTML.
- 16:34:36 [gkatsev]
- pal: the nesting of temporal expressions is just syntactic sugar
- 16:36:03 [gkatsev]
- .. everything translated to start and end in document time
- 16:36:49 [gkatsev]
- -> https://www.w3.org/TR/2018/REC-ttml2-20181108/#semantics-media-document-timing document time in TTML2
- 16:38:49 [gkatsev]
- cyril: the term Document Time doesn't seem to be defined in TTML2
- 16:39:22 [gkatsev]
- pal: document times are expressed on the document temporal coordinate space
- 16:40:49 [gkatsev]
- .. times come out as offsets
- 16:41:03 [gkatsev]
- atai: the doucment needs to say what the reference for those offsets are
- 16:41:19 [gkatsev]
- s/doucment/document/
- 16:41:46 [gkatsev]
- cyril: [presents proposed changes]
- 16:52:47 [gkatsev]
- atai: important to circulate outcome to implementers to see if they can understand it
- 16:53:02 [gkatsev]
- cyril: MPEG sent similar liaisons to all types of organizations
- 16:53:08 [gkatsev]
- .. so implementers can understand it
- 16:54:55 [atsushi]
- (I'm operating webex client on tablet, and it seems I've touched wrong line.... sorry for mis-operation for muting noise.)
- 16:54:57 [gkatsev]
- pal: a TTML decoder returns temporal coordinates where each ISD is
- 16:55:29 [gkatsev]
- .. and these temporal offsets are the interface
- 16:55:40 [gkatsev]
- .. How do you take these temporal coordinates and map them to ISOBMFF timeline?
- 16:56:24 [gkatsev]
- .. This mapping is critical to sync up with audio and video
- 16:56:49 [gkatsev]
- cyril: I see what you're saying, I'm not sure how to translate it to text
- 16:56:56 [gkatsev]
- .. that's understandable by implementors
- 16:57:41 [gkatsev]
- pal: make a formula for mapping temporal offsets in seconds into the ISOBMFF timeline
- 16:57:51 [gkatsev]
- .. it's the same formula for each TTML document
- 16:57:59 [gkatsev]
- .. regardless of the ordering in the TTML track
- 16:58:12 [gkatsev]
- cyril: how do I refer to this time offset in TTML spec
- 16:58:21 [gkatsev]
- pal: I think it's called time coordinates
- 16:59:17 [gkatsev]
- gkatsev: writing up something and sending it to the group might be a good way to progress
- 17:00:55 [gkatsev]
- present: gkatsev, pal, cyril, atai, atsushi
- 17:01:00 [gkatsev]
- regrets: Nigel
- 17:01:36 [gkatsev]
- gkatsev: [wrapping up]
- 17:01:54 [gkatsev]
- .. [mentioned thinking about process2020, patent policy 2020, and default branch name for next time]
- 17:02:07 [gkatsev]
- RRSAgent: draft minutes
- 17:02:07 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/11/05-tt-minutes.html gkatsev
- 17:04:00 [gkatsev]
- RRSAgent: make minutes v2
- 17:04:00 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/11/05-tt-minutes.html gkatsev
- 17:05:48 [gkatsev]
- i/gkatsev: [wrapping up]/Topic: ending meeting
- 17:05:50 [gkatsev]
- RRSAgent: make minutes v2
- 17:05:50 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/11/05-tt-minutes.html gkatsev
- 17:06:36 [gkatsev]
- scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
- 17:06:42 [gkatsev]
- rrsagent, make minutes v2
- 17:06:42 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/11/05-tt-minutes.html gkatsev
- 17:09:12 [gkatsev]
- atsushi: do you know how Nigel gets the text format minutes for the email?
- 17:09:33 [gkatsev]
- Zakim: end this meeting
- 17:17:53 [gkatsev]
- RRSAgent: excuse us
- 17:17:53 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items