<Rachael> title: COGA Taskforce Meeting 29 October 2020
<Rachael> scribe: Jennie
Rachael: I am still working on the 1st action item
Abi: I reviewed the glossary
issues, and put proposals together and sent to the list last
week
... We approved them on last week's call
Lisa: I think we had 2 left
Abi: We did symbol user
... All remaining issues were related to other ones
... On the editorial call on Tuesday and we discussed it there
as well
Rachael: I think this is closed,
so I will add Rachael and Lisa to verify
... Did that include the updated glossary in github?
Abi: Yes, all that have been
approved by the group are in there
... we have to wait for other changes that may arise
Rachael: Lisa, as people finish
actions do we want to merge into master, or just do it one
time?
... For many of the issues
Lisa: I will go over that with
Roy and probably Michael
... you can give that action to us
... 1 of us can do a merge, the other has to approve it
... The glossary sounds a bit more complicated
Rachael: We can talk about that on Tuesday and work through it
Justine: I have icons custom
created by someone in my organization.
... When we have time we can walk through them
Rachael: Maybe as part of next week's agenda?
Justine: yes that would be fine
Rachael: If you can send them to the COGA list that would be great so people can review them ahead of time
Justine: yes
Rachael: Now talking about patterns
Steve: I have done all except for
one
... Clear and Understandable page structure
... all the others are done
David F: I have started mine, and am trucking along
Rachael: Do you have a date of when it will be complete?
Lisa: we needed them last week
Rachael: Can we say next week to have it done?
David F: yes
Abi: I have done some work but I have had issues that I have added to the tracking spreadsheet
David F: I saw those and worked on the redundant entry
scribe: I had the same concerns
Abi: When we have wider issues, what is the next step?
Rachael: I wonder if we can set a little time aside after this in the agenda, and then set aside time formally next meeting to work on this
<Abi> +1
Rachael: any concern about adding an agenda item to discuss the patterns?
<Rachael> Jennie: One is completed and updated in tracking. Other have questions about. Will defer to next agenda item.
Rachael: I think that is everybody
Betsy: The review of the objective text - I have questions about this
Lisa: Can you send me some times for Monday?
Rachael: Can you cc me as well
Betsy: yes
<Rachael> Jennie: I sent the language that John and I worked on. We would like the group to approve. Can we get that put on a wiki page? We also have scheduled a Nov 16 meeting to review any images that are submitted.
<Rachael> ...anyone interested, please send an email to let me know you'd like an invitation
Rachael: Lisa you were going to look at file type and sizes
Lisa: I think we were going to have the W3C confirm
Rachael: OK I think that is good
for now
... Any other actions that people want to talk about today?
The Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force needs help creating images for an upcoming publication that has an international audience. The images will show readers how website designs can improve access to websites. We need two images for each design concept used in our document. • Image 1: a mockup of a website that makes it difficult to use because it does not follow the design concept.
In the Making Content Usable document design concepts are called Objectives. All images are to be original, and if selected, become property of the W3C. There will be no compensation provided. Selected artwork will credit the artist (this needs W3C specific legal language). Technical Information
File types: SVG (vector format) preferred. File should be 1600 px wide. Please create images with the understanding that some of our readers may:
• magnify the image to better view the details. • view them on different size screens/devices. • have difficulty perceiving color. They will either view the images as published, or they may use software to change the color schemes. Understanding the images cannot depend on the perception of color.
• only use the alternative text for the image. Please design images that have a clear purpose. This will make it easier for authors to write the alternative text, and for individuals with cognitive disabilities to understand how it is related to its context. Ready to Help? If you would like to submit an image for consideration:
1. Contact John Kirkwood (kirkwood@citymouse.com) and Jennie Delisi (jennie.delisi@state.mn.us) for more information. 2. We will send you the list of objectives, and links to examples of sites that meet or do not meet these objectives. 3. Select one or more objectives, and create your designs.
The deadline for submissions is Friday, November 13th, 2020. A committee will review the submissions and select images for publication. The week of November 23, 2020 the committee will send acceptance emails.
<LisaSeemanKest> great
<Rachael> Replace: "Selected artwork will credit the artist (this needs W3C specific legal language)." with "Artists whose work is selected will be included in the contributors list"
<Rachael> Proposed RESOLUTION: Approve language
<Fazio> +1
+1
<LisaSeemanKest> +1
<Rachael> +1
<Justine> +1
<Abi> +1
<stevelee> +1
<BetsuFurler_> +1
<Rachael> wiki will be at https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Image_language
RESOLUTION: Approve language
Steve: this link is for the
tracking spreadsheet
... all except 1 has advanced
... most look ready for review except Abi's, Jennie's, and the
1 I am working on
... to discuss issues, review them
... We could use comments as we have done before
... The tracking spreadsheet may be easier
... The task force should decide where these issues should
go
... And make sure we do them the same way
Rachael: what is everyone's
preference?
... Issues and challenges in the spreadsheet or on the
document?
Abi: I may put wider questions for feedback on the spreadsheet
Steve: I agree with that
... I will transfer the issues needed to be discussed into the
tracking sheet
... We also need to get the review process going
... It would be ideal if we can have lots of people
reviewing
... from the group
... Is there a review process?
Rachael: Once they are done, can we have people sign up for review, and try to get 2 people to sign up for each one?
Lisa: If Steve reviews the ones that have not been done by him, etc., this will help with consistency
Steve: Sounds good
<Abi> +1
Rachael: Are others willing to review Steve's?
Steve: Please just wait until I
remove issues to the spreadsheet, then I can send a message
when they are ready
... Let's do issues first, then the review
Rachael: Next week, let's discuss
who will do the reviews
... Let's start with Abi's
... then Steve's, then David's and Jennie's
<stevelee> https://docs.google.com/document/d/146ELqKe-WRgPtYo8cBJPy6cjVDuCJ3irqZQ3SG1gNBc/edit
Abi: question 1 - the pattern is
relying on users memorizing information
... Is this specifically for processes? Or is it wider?
<Fazio> https://docs.google.com/document/d/18MCz5XDsMmglcAe2j-HzQbpADpw_HtdVjDZ3EHX4-xk/edit
Steve: When I went through adding
these user needs they didn't always match perfectly
... Don't assume that the user need is correct
David F: I pasted in the success criteria that this pattern maps to
scribe: When I first started
working on it it had a lot of what Abi is talking about, but
started focusing on steps in a process
... If we can follow the success criteria, the design pattern
should be done in a way to help follow the success criteria
Rachael: I don't believe we need to match the SC with these patterns
<LisaSeemanKest> +1 to rachael
Rachael: They are not a formal
requirement, not a success criteria
... We can provide a wider number of use cases and patterns
David F: I just mean to help us guide, we can be broader yes, but we don't want to contradict the success criteria
Abi: If it would incorporate all
processes...this currently has bits about process, but others
about tasks
... I think it could cover other types of activities that may
require memorization
David F: A failure around going back in a process - it is things like that I am a bit concerned about
Steve: There is a slight overlap
possibly
... There is also the login not relying on memory
David F: there is also the accessible authentication one
scribe: I think John R was working on that
Abi: In terms of editing, just
being aware that we have a login specific one
... I will try to keep it broad but not overlap
(group agrees verbally)
Abi: OK I can do that
... The other question I have - a lot of the examples are about
interfaces, and felt like the only examples being given
... David's may be more applicable for some
... Navigating voice menus is another piece
... Is this because the patterns are being merged
David F: We moved away from it
<Rachael> Jennie: In the conversations when we were looking at the SC, one of the concerns of the AG was that it was out of scope of web interfaces. In recent developments in web conferences tools we are entering a merged space with things called soft bones with things like MS teams. This is beginning to be present in the web space.
<Rachael> ...Important to include.
Rachael: I do think we should
keep the current example, and add on new ones
... The purpose of this review is to add additional examples to
make them fit better
Steve: That's interesting to
hear, Jennie
... What's interesting is that the W3C has a pronunciation
group
... There is an unofficial API for speech generation, speech
recognition
... 1 is only supported by Chrome
... I think we will start to see more activity
... Maybe we should broaden it
... Speech recognition is an issue
... We should address it to be ahead of the curve
... I can't remember how it interacted with the voice one
Abi: Can I hear Lisa 1st?
Lisa: It is in scope because the
emerging technologies, the Speech ML technology
... It is about how to use that technology correctly
... But it also in scope because so often people say people
that can't use a website can call
... Even if people aren't using web, if it isn't a workable
alternative
... It is really important conceptually
Abi: I think we are all agreed
that voice menus are in scope
... I have a lot of content here specific to voice menus
... We have information stating avoid complicated voice menus,
we could also talk about designing voice menus
... I'm concerned we have duplications
... in the various patterns
Steve: in the broader scope
... Could it be added into the other pattern?
Abi: Yes
... And make the memory one broader
... There is a lot of information specifically around designing
voice menus
Steve: I think that is a good idea
Abi: Should I review the voice menu pattern at the same time?
Steve: Yes. I think we will have a few patterns like that
Rachael: I agree
Abi: OK, I can take on both
... I have updated the spreadsheet with what was decided
Rachael: Moving on to David
David F: I do not have any issues, but it is good to know that I do not have to align with the success criterias that have been proposed
Steve: I know we were cutting out a lot of what was in the patterns for the proposed success criteria, but this is our way to make sure we don't lose those pieces
Rachael: I think we have decided not to conflict with the proposed SC, but it is ok to be broad
David F: Will this need to be approved by the working group as well? The design guide?
Rachael: Yes. It will go through both APA and AG
Steve: The task force publishes documents
Rachael: I agree with Steve
... There is recognition that this is not a standards
document
<Rachael> Jennie: 2 assigned. First is about help. Its ready for review. The other one states that I can give feedback, ask questions, and get feedback. I Think there is overlap. I'd like to remove the ask questions piece because I think its covered in the help one. As far as the get feedback about my feedback. Can I reword to "Participate in the feedback process" Suggest improvements and participate from the dialogue.
<Rachael> want to separate help and feedback.
Steve: I wanted to have the feedback piece added, but what you are saying is a bit different
<Fazio> +1
Steve: I would not object to feedback being removed from that piece
<LisaSeemanKest> can i have the link so i can see it?
<stevelee> https://w3c.github.io/coga/content-usable/#pattern-make-it-easy-to-find-help-and-give-feedback
<Rachael> 4.8.5 I can give feedback, ask questions and get feedback.
Rachael: I support separating
help and feedback
... I think that is clean distinction
<Rachael> 4.8.1 I know how to get human help and can manage the process easily.
Rachael: It may even break out into 3 patterns
David F: A lot of companies have an accessibility line, and accessibility problems
scribe: I think that is also
help
... I know a lot of maturity models and regulations require a
feedback mechanisms
<LisaSeemanKest> sorry one is 8.5. what is the other
scribe: That's how it all ties together
4.8.1.1 User Need
Lisa: One is about human
help
... When you have human help it should be a process you can
manage
... The other is for a feedback form
... If people need to call they can manage
... The other is a step in a process
... 4.8.5 It is about getting help at any point in a
process
... On the other hand, providing human help, the description is
too short in a way
... It is about getting human help when it is available
Steve: 4.8.5 there may be 2
aspects - how you locate on a page or find, navigate to the
information about getting help
... the other is navigating what you find
... We have the terms help and support
... Maybe the human help is more about support
Lisa: Feedback also includes "I
don't like this site"
... Support is more "How do I use this?"
Rachael: I suggest that Jennie
takes her best shot at making those changes, or coming up with
a way of making those more clear
... Then if you could make an editor's meeting
Abi: I do think feedback might
not be the appropriate word
... When I'm working with designers they think feedback is
visual feedback like an error on a page
... I think how we use that word is important
Rachael: Jennie is suggesting help as one pattern, human help as another, and feedback as a 3rd
Lisa: I'm not sure which problem
we are solving
... They sound the same to me
Steve: I think human help is
definitely separate. I think feedback was with finding
help
... People say "I can't use this"
... They are significantly different in the mind of users, so I
think they need to be separate
Lisa: We are not saying we will
change 2 into 3
... We will take 4.8.5 and spilt that into 2
jennie: yes, that works for me. I will work on this
Rachael: There is an editor's call after this
<Rachael> trackbot end meeting
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