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13:06:25 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/09/11-epub-irc
13:06:27 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:06:28 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), ivan
13:06:38 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2020-09-11: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-epub-wg/2020Sep/0000.html
13:06:39 <ivan> Chair: wendy, dauwhe
13:06:39 <ivan> Date: 2020-09-11
13:06:39 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-epub-wg/2020Sep/0000.html
13:06:39 <ivan> Meeting: EPUB 3 Working Group Telco
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14:03:55 <Karen_> present+ Karen
14:03:58 <Karen_> Scribe: Karen
14:04:29 <Karen_> Dave: Let's get started to the first ever meeting of the new EPUB 3 working group
14:04:45 <Karen_> ...exactly 21 years ago, EPUB OED 1.0 was published
14:04:55 <Karen_> ...it was about a deadly virus -- about Ebola
14:05:09 <Karen_> ...thirteen years ago, 2011, the first EPUB spect was published
14:05:21 <Karen_> ...So it seems appropriate that the new chapter of EPUB begins today, 11 Sept.
14:05:30 <Karen_> ...EPUB work was done by Open ebook forum
14:05:44 <Karen_> ...that became IDPF that merged into W3C
14:06:01 <Karen_> ...Ivan will talk about the W3C process
14:06:08 <Karen_> ...which ensures work is available to everyone
14:06:17 <Karen_> Dave: I can paste into minutes as well
14:06:32 <Karen_> George: continue to have this in the record
14:06:42 <Karen_> Dave: we have the process that ensures work we do is available to everyone
14:06:49 <Karen_> ...we do that by testing every single feature in the spec
14:07:04 <Karen_> ...and making sure that at least two pass every aspect of the tests is the most important job of this WG
14:07:14 <Karen_> ...EPUB has struggled with interopeability
14:07:19 <Karen_> ...with different reading systems
14:07:33 <ivan> present+ garth
14:07:33 <Karen_> ...We hope these tests will help reading systems to be better and help people reading ebooks
14:07:46 <Karen_> ...Make EPUB better; Accessibility is critical to our work
14:07:59 <Karen_> [school things]
14:08:13 <Karen_> ...We will of course focus on Accessibility, fixed layout access; reading system conformance
14:08:17 <Karen_> ...make navigation better
14:08:25 <Karen_> ...what we work on depends upon you, members of the WG
14:08:33 <Karen_> ...your knowledge of all aspects of ecosystem
14:08:41 <Karen_> ...And backwards compatability is crucial
14:08:46 <Karen_> ...we are not going to break EPUB
14:08:58 <garth> garth has joined #epub
14:09:01 <Karen_> ...Ivan, could you talk a little about timelines and process, first public working drafts, etc.
14:09:09 <Karen_> Ivan: I won't go into all the details of each steps
14:09:18 <Karen_> ...What's important is we publish a series of drafts
14:09:20 <garth> present+ Garth
14:09:37 <Karen_> ...we start with the first public working draft; we will discuss when that will happen, likely end of year or start of new year
14:09:44 <Karen_> ...Essentially we put the documents on the map
14:09:52 <Karen_> ...and we are part of the formal W3C publications
14:10:00 <Karen_> ...it's a draft but has its own permanent URI
14:10:07 <Karen_> ...and all the patent procedures start at that point
14:10:20 <Karen_> ...This community in my experience is not very patent oriented
14:10:26 <Karen_> ...After the first public working draft
14:10:31 <dauwhe> q?
14:10:32 <Karen_> ...we are supposed to update the draft regularly
14:10:42 <Karen_> ...there is a kind of expectation that every three months there should be something happening
14:10:49 <Karen_> ...and some sort of record of the changes we have done
14:10:58 <Karen_> ...what exactly we publish is entirely under our control
14:11:12 <Karen_> ...whereas the first public working draft goes through some W3M administration
14:11:14 <Karen_> ...which I handle
14:11:21 <Karen_> ...At some point we get to candidate recommendation
14:11:27 <Karen_> ...planned to be sometime in summer 2021
14:11:31 <Karen_> ...that depends upon us
14:11:35 <Karen_> ...That is a very essential point
14:11:45 <Karen_> ...what CR means is that we consider technical content as final
14:11:53 <Karen_> ...after that we are not supposed to add major technical changes
14:11:59 <Karen_> ...and from that point on, we concentrate on testing
14:12:07 <Karen_> ...As Dave said, testing is very important
14:12:13 <Karen_> ...has to be implementable
14:12:26 <Karen_> ...need to be several mutually independent implementations
14:12:30 <Karen_> ...we have a lot of work to do
14:12:36 <Karen_> ...to find the normative statements in the document
14:12:46 <dauwhe> q?
14:12:47 <Karen_> ...For every normative statement there must be a test and two implementations for the test
14:12:55 <Karen_> ...Won't get too much into CR and what is to be tested
14:13:07 <Karen_> ...the CR phase is when we get implementations and have to produce test results
14:13:11 <Karen_> ...and show where we are
14:13:23 <Karen_> ...sometimes you need to republish CR to take care of problems
14:13:25 <Karen_> ...that's ok
14:13:34 <Karen_> ...like the working draft we can do some level of change
14:13:39 <Karen_> ...others a bit more complicated
14:13:46 <Karen_> ...at some point we say that the tech content is fine
14:13:59 <Karen_> ...and we feel the implemenation report is complete
14:14:06 <Karen_> ...At that point we published a proposed recommendation
14:14:11 <Karen_> ...the W3C community reviews
14:14:14 <Karen_> ...that is end of the process
14:14:22 <Karen_> ...per our charter we have 2.5 years to do that
14:14:32 <Karen_> ...As a point of comparison, some of us are active in the Audio Book WG
14:14:40 <Karen_> ...plan is that that goes to CR next week
14:14:48 <Karen_> ...that is essentially it; the way we produce things
14:14:52 <Karen_> ...Already the workflow
14:14:56 <Karen_> ...I leave details
14:15:07 <Karen_> Wendy: For the work mode for this working group
14:15:13 <Karen_> ...We have a very international membereship
14:15:15 <ivan> present+ juliette
14:15:18 <Karen_> ...we will have alternate times
14:15:24 <Karen_> ...this is the alternate US/Europe time
14:15:37 <Karen_> ...Next week our meeting will be at 8:00pm EDT, or 9:00am Japan
14:15:44 <Karen_> ...we will meet every other week
14:15:59 <Karen_> ...we will not repeat agendas, with the exception of these first meetings to make sure everyone knows the work mode
14:16:04 <Karen_> ...with these split meeting times
14:16:16 <George> q+
14:16:16 <Karen_> ...any resolution made in one meeting has to be affirmed in another meeting
14:16:22 <Karen_> ...unless they are covered in issues
14:16:34 <dauwhe> ack ge
14:16:34 <Karen_> ack George
14:16:39 <Karen_> George: The evening time
14:16:46 <Karen_> ...that is on Thursday, not the Friday?
14:16:48 <Karen_> Wendy: yes
14:17:02 <Karen_> George: All people in North America would be expected to join both meetings
14:17:15 <Karen_> Wendy: not expected, we'd love to have you at both, but come to whatever meeting you are able to come to
14:17:26 <Karen_> ...We will make sure we have good minutes so that people don't miss out
14:17:33 <Karen_> ...For email we have our two main mailing lists
14:17:38 <Karen_> ...public mail lists will set agendas
14:17:46 <Karen_> ...and internal mailing list for things internal to us
14:17:52 <Karen_> ...or not to be made public
14:17:53 <dauwhe> q+
14:17:59 <wendyreid> ack dauwhe
14:18:02 <Karen_> ...and there will be a chairs mailing list
14:18:16 <Karen_> Dave: In general I think we should have tech discussions in public mailing list
14:18:28 <CharlesL> q+
14:18:28 <Karen_> ...and member only for admin matters like Zoom meeting details
14:18:33 <Karen_> ...that is more the reason for the member only list
14:18:34 <wendyreid> ack CharlesL
14:18:39 <CharlesL> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-epub-wg/2020Aug/0000.html
14:18:40 <Karen_> Charles: I am still confused
14:18:45 <ivan> -> https://www.w3.org//publishing/groups/epub-wg/ Home Page of the WG, with links to further information
14:18:45 <Karen_> ...in this document mailed to us
14:18:58 <Karen_> ...Looking at times, it talks about the 18th of September at 9:00am; is that Japan?
14:19:12 <Karen_> Wendy: The meetings are 9:00am in Japan on Fridays, which is Thursday evenings in North America
14:19:17 <Karen_> Ivan: I have put on the home page of the group
14:19:22 <Karen_> ...I have put pointers to times and dates
14:19:26 <Karen_> ...I realize that this is confusing
14:19:32 <Karen_> ...and other thing I had done on mailing list archive
14:19:35 <juliette_mcshane_> juliette_mcshane_ has joined #epub
14:19:36 <Karen_> ...there are two attachments
14:19:39 <Karen_> ...ICS files
14:19:50 <Karen_> ...two, one for European centric and one for Japan centric series
14:19:57 <Karen_> ...hopefully that sets for the right time zone for you
14:20:01 <Karen_> ...One thing we have to realize
14:20:06 <Karen_> ...that will come back I think in November
14:20:17 <Karen_> ...Every year, twice a year, some countries change DST
14:20:20 <Karen_> ...some don't
14:20:25 <Karen_> ...some shall not change at the same time
14:20:29 <Karen_> ...there is a mess coming up
14:20:50 <Karen_> ...so we may want to think about changing the Northern hemisphere winter period, but we will come back to that
14:20:59 <Karen_> Wendy: I recommend using ICS files to make life easier
14:21:07 <Karen_> ...next part of work mode is that we will use Github
14:21:12 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/epub-wg/
14:21:16 <Karen_> ...for management issues and repositories
14:21:19 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/publ-epub-revision/
14:21:21 <Karen_> ...posting both links into irc
14:21:29 <Karen_> ...Why do we have two Github repositories?
14:21:40 <Karen_> ...If you were in the EPUB CG, you will remember EPUB revision
14:21:45 <Karen_> ...we will keep that for spec docs
14:21:55 <Karen_> ...where technical issues related to changes will go into that Github repository
14:22:02 <dauwhe> q+
14:22:05 <Karen_> ...we did not want to lose the valuable issues logged there from EPUB 3.2
14:22:08 <Karen_> ...and not lose those
14:22:28 <Karen_> ...the EPUB WG repository is for meeting minutes, F2F docs, where page on W3C site is hosted, group related documentation
14:22:35 <Karen_> ...or for group administration issue
14:22:36 <dauwhe> q-
14:22:43 <Karen_> ...and where we will run the project management taskst
14:22:50 <Karen_> ...keep them separate from the other repository
14:22:58 <Karen_> ...look at project tabs and we already have some open
14:23:06 <Karen_> Dave: We are lucky to have an organized chair
14:23:12 <Karen_> Wendy: you all should have W3C accounts
14:23:22 <Karen_> ...if you have not associated your Github ID with your W3C IDe
14:23:24 <Karen_> s/ID
14:23:33 <Karen_> ...you can do that by going to your profile and "link accounts"
14:23:37 <Karen_> ...It was easy to do
14:23:44 <Karen_> ...Next thing, irc
14:23:47 <Karen_> ...we are already on irc
14:23:52 <Karen_> ...we will use the #EPUB channel
14:24:04 <Karen_> ...If you have not given your irc nickname to Ivan, it makes minutes easier
14:24:15 <Karen_> ...try not to change your nickname too often so we don't get confused
14:24:17 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/
14:24:24 <Karen_> ...next thing to talk about is incredibly important
14:24:43 <Karen_> ...Code of conduct that governs all groups in working group settings, in email, at TPAC
14:24:49 <Karen_> ...this doc should be taken into consideration
14:24:54 <Karen_> ...I would like everyone to read it
14:25:01 <Karen_> ...I am part of the group that helped to craft it
14:25:11 <Karen_> ...How to behave, core is be nice to each other
14:25:23 <Karen_> ...if there are any incidents, if you feel anything happened, reach out to the chairs
14:25:39 <Karen_> ...Please make sure you all read it and conduct yourselves appropriately; you are all wonderful people
14:25:39 <dauwhe> q?
14:25:44 <Karen_> ...Today we asked for a scribe
14:25:54 <Karen_> ...we don't want to do that again, so we will set up a scribe rotation
14:26:05 <Karen_> ...let chairs know if you are comfortable being a scribe
14:26:15 <Karen_> ...and we will have a rotation, take a turn and move to bottom of list
14:26:26 <Karen_> ...there are two time zones, so will be another person in place
14:26:35 <Karen_> ...If you have not scribed, I put some tips on our WG page
14:26:40 <Karen_> ...link is here
14:26:56 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/epub-wg/WorkMode/newbie#irc
14:26:57 <Karen_> ...that provides tips on how to do it [scribe]
14:27:06 <Karen_> ...If you are a newbie, or always wanted to scribe
14:27:11 <Karen_> ...there is info
14:27:22 <Karen_> ...we love new scribes and are happy for everyone to help
14:27:28 <Karen_> ...otherwise, we will reach out directly to others
14:27:44 <Karen_> Dave: We understand that some people cannot scribe for various reasons and we are ok with that
14:27:49 <Karen_> ...we won't ask what those reasons are
14:27:57 <Karen_> ...we don't want to do anything to make anyone uncomfortable
14:28:16 <Karen_> Wendy: we are working to get Github bot set up to track our resolutions, especially because of the split meeting times
14:28:26 <ivan> q+
14:28:27 <Karen_> Dave: this bot will post minutes of an individual discussion to Github as a comment
14:28:35 <Karen_> ...it was written by David Baron for CSS WG
14:28:47 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:28:49 <Karen_> ...it is helpful to have it; addresses the issue itself so you don't have to hunt
14:28:52 <Karen_> Ivan: Also to help
14:28:59 <Karen_> ...everytime we have a meeting, within 24 hours
14:29:05 <Karen_> ...I will post the cleaned up minutes
14:29:09 <ivan> https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/epub-wg/Meetings/Minutes/
14:29:14 <Karen_> ...All the minutes are available on the WG home page
14:29:16 <Karen_> ...link above
14:29:26 <Karen_> ...also a script that extracts the formal resolutions of every minutes
14:29:30 <ivan> https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/epub-wg/Meetings/Minutes/resolutions
14:29:30 <Karen_> ...separate page set up for that
14:29:39 <Karen_> ...with list of all the resolutions we have taken over the years or months
14:29:49 <Karen_> ...to help keep track of what is happening even if you are not on the calls
14:29:52 <Karen_> Wendy: Last thing
14:29:58 <Karen_> ...we are implementing a formal decision process
14:30:13 <Karen_> ...any decision taken up in one meeting has to be confirmed in the second meeting with the other group
14:30:28 <Karen_> ...so everyone has a chance to object or make other suggestions
14:30:33 <Karen_> ...that is it for the work mode
14:30:49 <Karen_> ...We will have our meetings, but we also want to work as asynchronously as possible
14:31:10 <Karen_> ...we are scattered across the world; not wait until next meeting; feel free to log Github issues; send emails, ask questions
14:31:17 <Karen_> ...We do note that there are language barriers sometimes
14:31:35 <Karen_> ...the primary WG language is going to be English; my Japanese is terrible
14:31:47 <ivan> -> If you are new to github... https://iherman.github.io/misc-notes/docs/BasicGitHubContributionIntro
14:31:52 <Karen_> ...if you cannot express issue, please express in language of your choice and we will figure it out from there
14:32:05 <Karen_> ...We want everyone to contribute; everyone is incredibly valuable and we want your feedback
14:32:11 <Karen_> Dave: Add that what worked well
14:32:27 <Karen_> ...is issues in Github and discussions there; since asynchronous you can include code samples
14:32:33 <Karen_> ...and we tend to go over the issue in a call
14:32:43 <Karen_> ...have discussions and reach consensus
14:32:56 <Karen_> ...Github will be primary place for the laying out of issues and the substantive options
14:33:07 <Karen_> ...any questions about the introductory material before we move on?
14:33:18 <Karen_> ...Shall we do introductions then?
14:33:24 <Karen_> ...I know most of you
14:33:29 <Karen_> ...but given this is a new working group
14:33:44 <Karen_> ...we should introduce ourselves and give 1-2 sentences about who we are; why we're here
14:33:50 <Karen_> ...I'm Dave Cramer, one of the co-chairs
14:33:56 <Karen_> ...I was a co-chair of the EPUB 3 CG
14:34:02 <Karen_> ...I have been making epubs for 20 years
14:34:12 <Karen_> ...and working on EPUB standards for 8 years now; involved pretty deeply
14:34:18 <Karen_> Wendy Reed: Also one of the co-chairs
14:34:25 <Karen_> ...and also one of co-chairs of the Pub WG
14:34:32 <Karen_> ...working on audio books
14:34:37 <Karen_> ...work for Rakuten Kobo
14:34:57 <Karen_> ...not part of CG, but this is my first in-depth work on EPUB standards but have been working on EPUB a long time
14:35:11 <Karen_> Shiyama Takami: I work for Kodakawa
14:35:16 <Karen_> ...EPUB based services
14:35:27 <Karen_> ...named Rakuten Kobo in Japan, seven years ago
14:35:34 <Karen_> ...EPUB 3 is widely spread in Japan
14:35:44 <Karen_> ...I will help Japanese and Asian countries to communicate
14:35:59 <Karen_> ...and Daihei will help to support my English, Daihei
14:36:11 <Karen_> Daihei Shiohama: My role is to stay behind the scenes
14:36:17 <Karen_> ...where I can I will support as much as possible
14:36:29 <Karen_> ...EPUB is the primary format in Japan so it is a very big concern
14:36:42 <Karen_> ...and hope of Japanese publishing industry that EPUB propels
14:36:58 <Karen_> ...I am very happy to see the establishment of this WG and hope this will propel EPUB into global usage
14:37:16 <Karen_> Matt Garrish: with Daisy Consortium, editing EPUB specs since Daisy got started
14:37:34 <Karen_> ...want to see EPUB continue, want this to be mainstream; we want accessible publications and have EPUB at the forefront
14:37:41 <Karen_> Dave: we hope Matt will serve as managing editor
14:37:53 <Karen_> ...for large-scale production; and help other editors doing individual pieces
14:38:00 <Karen_> Charles: lead at Benetech
14:38:11 <Karen_> ...working on global certified initiative to certify publishers
14:38:24 <Karen_> ...to adhere to 1.0 spec we created with IDPF and hope to continue that work here
14:38:35 <Karen_> ...also with Pub WG; was part of Pub IG and the Access. TF
14:38:44 <Karen_> ...along with Deborah along with gaps missing in accessibility
14:38:51 <Karen_> ...a lot happens in accessibility
14:38:54 <Karen_> ...pass to George
14:39:02 <Karen_> George Kerscher, Daisy Consortium and Benetech
14:39:20 <Karen_> ...I was one of authors of original OEB spec in 1999 and involved in digital books since 1988
14:39:33 <Karen_> ...long history and look forward to a long running, successful WG
14:39:45 <Karen_> Bill Kasdorf: an independent digital publishing consultant
14:39:51 <Karen_> ...I would never compare myself to George
14:40:00 <Karen_> ...I have been involved in this work in EPUB for over 10 years
14:40:13 <Karen_> ...back in the day I had a company with employees who were involved in the original OEB
14:40:26 <Karen_> ...one thing important is that I am not a coder or developer, so not nearly as technical
14:40:36 <Karen_> ...one of my roles is I am the W3C EPUB Evangelist
14:40:55 <Karen_> ...I took on that role because I am passionate about getting more people involved in this group
14:41:04 <Karen_> ...and to help communicate that to others in the outside world
14:41:16 <Karen_> Garth Conboy: engineering manager at Google playbooks for reading client
14:41:27 <Karen_> ...Like George have been doing EPUB standards since predecessor in 1999
14:41:35 <Karen_> ...at IDPF, both technically and on the board there
14:41:47 <Karen_> ...and with Wendy, co-chaired the Pub WG and involved in Pub BG
14:42:06 <Karen_> Toshiaki Koike: our company publishes EPUB 2 and reading systems
14:42:16 <Karen_> ...I'm sorry I cannot be a scribe
14:42:21 <ivan> present+ brady
14:42:23 <Karen_> ...due to lack of English ability
14:42:25 <Bill_Kasdorf_> s/EPUB/Publishing
14:42:42 <Karen_> Deborah Kaplan
14:42:47 <Karen_> [you are muted]
14:42:58 <Karen_> Deborah: forgot which to unmute
14:43:16 <Karen_> ...I have been involved with accessibility
14:43:20 <Karen_> ...maybe 20 years
14:43:24 <Karen_> ...am a programmer
14:43:38 <Karen_> ...worked with digital publishing; worked in Pub IG, CG, some EPUB Check things
14:43:49 <duga> duga has joined #epub
14:43:53 <Karen_> ...as a freelancer I have done a lot of work with publishing and library platforms, working on archiving software
14:43:54 <toshiakikoike> s/EPUB 2/EPUB Tools/
14:43:57 <Karen_> ...focused on accessibility
14:44:01 <duga> present+
14:44:05 <Karen_> ...that's it
14:44:17 <Karen_> Avneesh Singh: so many great people
14:44:21 <Karen_> ...from Daisy Consoritum
14:44:30 <Karen_> ...Daisy has been driving accessibility in EPUB for more than a decade now
14:44:40 <Karen_> ...I have been following for many years
14:44:50 <Karen_> ...6-7 years ago I started driving accessibility
14:44:54 <Karen_> ...and will continue to do so
14:45:00 <Karen_> Wendy: Avneesh is being modest
14:45:05 <Karen_> George: I also want to say that I am blind
14:45:18 <Karen_> ...all of the accessibility features of EPUB really benefit me personally
14:45:46 <Karen_> Masakuzu Kitahara: I am not very good at Englsh
14:45:53 <Karen_> [missed first part]
14:46:05 <Karen_> Juliette McShane: I am director of accessibility at Access2online
14:46:13 <Karen_> ...we are an accessibility service provider
14:46:19 <Karen_> ...we are new to this space
14:46:26 <Karen_> ...interested in metadata in EPUB
14:46:40 <Karen_> ...and urge industry to move to browser based EPUB like PDF
14:46:51 <Karen_> ...integral to making switch to EPUB as the universal standard
14:47:03 <Karen_> Brady Duga, Google: I no longer have any knowledge of dates or time
14:47:16 <Karen_> ...since the "apocolypse" is destroying our sense of time and dates
14:47:28 <Karen_> ...I attended second meeting of EPUB in 1990s
14:47:38 <Karen_> ...I have been involved consistently in digpub for 20 years or so
14:47:43 <Karen_> ...interested in all parts of it
14:47:50 <Karen_> ...I work on a reader; the Google Playbook reader
14:47:59 <Karen_> Ivan Herman: good morning, evening, afternoon
14:48:03 <Karen_> ...I am part of the W3C team
14:48:08 <Karen_> ...I am the staff contact for this group
14:48:23 <Karen_> ...I have been around this community ever since W3C started to work in publishing
14:48:35 <Karen_> ...I worked with Markus Gylling with the first Publishing workshop
14:48:47 <Karen_> ...I am currently the formal technical lead of the Publishing@W3C activity
14:48:55 <Karen_> ...make it possible to make it work
14:48:58 <Karen_> Wendy:
14:49:06 <dauwhe> scribe+
14:49:14 <dauwhe> Karen_: Karen Myers, w3c staff
14:49:23 <dauwhe> ... I help support the tech work with outreach and education
14:49:32 <dauwhe> ... and I'm the best scribe ;)
14:49:42 <Karen_> Wendy: I think that is all
14:50:00 <Karen_> Shinya: I forgot to introduce myself as a co-chair of this working group
14:50:05 <Karen_> Wendy: I think that is all for introductions
14:50:08 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/epub-wg/issues/8
14:50:08 <Karen_> ...we have our first issue
14:50:11 <dauwhe> Topic: version number
14:50:12 <Karen_> ...an important one
14:50:19 <Karen_> ...Issue number 8 in EPUB WG repository
14:50:22 <dauwhe> q+
14:50:30 <Karen_> ...what version should we call this revision?
14:50:34 <Karen_> ...should it be 3.3?
14:50:40 <wendyreid> ack dauwhe
14:50:43 <mgarrish> q+
14:50:44 <Bill_Kasdorf_> q+
14:50:45 <Karen_> ...it's important because it will dictate what we call every document
14:50:55 <Karen_> Dave: I think 3.3 is a natural follow up to 3.2
14:50:59 <Karen_> ...we are not making breaking changes
14:51:10 <Karen_> ...our goal is not to take what is in 3.2 and run through the W3C process
14:51:24 <CharlesL> q+
14:51:25 <Bill_Kasdorf_> q-
14:51:29 <Karen_> ...we want to improve the language, fix open issues, make improvements to accessibility as we discussed
14:51:38 <Karen_> ...3.3 sounds right to me
14:51:44 <wendyreid> ack mgarrish
14:51:49 <Karen_> ..like to not spend three months arguing about it
14:51:56 <Karen_> Matt: dot dot numbering is hard to understand
14:52:04 <Karen_> ...if it were small maybe go with a second number
14:52:12 <Karen_> ...I don't think it's our goal not to do any revisions
14:52:18 <Karen_> ...I think 3.3 makes sense; it is clear
14:52:21 <wendyreid> ack CharlesL
14:52:24 <Karen_> ...makes it clear with the second number
14:52:28 <Karen_> Charles: I agree with that
14:52:35 <Avneesh> q+
14:52:46 <Karen_> ...if were were just putting 3.2 as standard process then 3.2.1 would have made sense, but we are not doing that
14:52:49 <Karen_> ...so 3.3 makes sense
14:52:54 <Karen_> Avneesh: one aspect
14:52:55 <wendyreid> ack Avneesh
14:53:05 <Karen_> ...is somewhat...HTML serialization
14:53:11 <Karen_> ...would we bump the number even more?
14:53:14 <Bill_Kasdorf_> q+
14:53:17 <Karen_> ...which may lead to branching of EPUB
14:53:23 <Karen_> ...if we go to EPUB 3.3.
14:53:34 <Karen_> ...then if we go to serialization then maybe we go to 3.3.5
14:53:36 <wendyreid> ack Bill_Kasdorf_
14:53:41 <Karen_> Dave: that is an excellent point
14:53:51 <dauwhe> s/3.3.5/3.5/
14:53:53 <Karen_> Bill: I agree with 3.3 for all the reasons everyone said?
14:53:57 <ivan> q+
14:53:58 <Avneesh> q+
14:54:08 <Karen_> ...anyone want to address what's going on in ISO?
14:54:14 <Karen_> Avneesh: two deliverables
14:54:19 <ivan> q-
14:54:27 <Karen_> ...3.3.0 from Korean gov't
14:54:30 <Karen_> ...progressing
14:54:39 <Karen_> ...3.3.0 will be ISO standard
14:54:42 <dauwhe> s/3.3.0/3.0.1/
14:54:44 <Karen_> ...EPUB accessibility was approved
14:54:47 <Karen_> ...in month of June
14:54:53 <Karen_> ...nine countries voted all positive
14:54:55 <ivan> q+
14:55:01 <Karen_> ...last week we had meeting for editorial changes
14:55:09 <Karen_> ...we are hoping it will be published as ISO standards
14:55:16 <Karen_> ...EPUB 3.0.1
14:55:17 <wendyreid> ack Avneesh
14:55:21 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:55:24 <Karen_> Ivan: a bit to add to that
14:55:35 <Karen_> ...3.0.1 is ISO standards and we cannot do anything about that
14:55:39 <Karen_> ...it happened before that
14:55:50 <Karen_> ...there is an HTML ISO standard which has long been forgotten by the community
14:55:56 <Karen_> ...Accessibility is very different
14:55:58 <Karen_> ..by our charter
14:56:03 <Karen_> ...it will be a first for EPUB 3
14:56:20 <Karen_> ...the Accessibility document will be an integral part of the whole family of documents, on equal level with packaging for eample
14:56:32 <Karen_> ...we start with current document, the one undergoing ISO standardization
14:56:42 <Karen_> ...I hope Accessibility 1 standard plus
14:56:50 <Karen_> ...we start with the document currently being voted on ISO
14:56:54 <Karen_> ...and we will add and improve that
14:57:00 <Karen_> ...that is what this group's charter is
14:57:06 <Karen_> Wendy: we only have a couple minutes left
14:57:08 <Karen_> ...profosal
14:57:10 <Karen_> s/proposal
14:57:16 <wendyreid> PROPOSED: The version of this revision of EPUB will be 3.3
14:57:18 <CharlesL> +1
14:57:18 <Karen_> ...the version of this document is EPUB 3.3
14:57:19 <dauwhe> +1
14:57:19 <garth> +1
14:57:20 <Bill_Kasdorf_> +1
14:57:20 <ivan> +1
14:57:20 <mgarrish> +1
14:57:21 <dkaplan3> +1
14:57:22 <shiestyle> +1
14:57:24 <juliette_mcshane_> +1
14:57:24 <toshiakikoike> +1
14:57:28 <Avneesh> +1
14:57:33 <MasakazuKitahara> +1
14:57:34 <duga> 0
14:57:34 <Karen_> ...if you would +1 if you agree; 0 if neutral and -1 if you disagree
14:57:36 <Karen_> +1
14:57:38 <George> +1
14:58:04 <Karen_> Garth: a standard for uninimity moving forward
14:58:13 <Karen_> Brady: I did not say EPUB NEXT :)
14:58:17 <wendyreid> RESOLVED: The version of this revision of EPUB will be 3.3
14:58:21 <Karen_> Dave: all those plus ones add up to 3.3
14:58:27 <Karen_> Ivan: let's get it into the minutes
14:58:31 <CharlesL> q+
14:58:36 <Karen_> ...see how resolutions are taken in a working group
14:58:42 <CharlesL> q-
14:58:43 <Karen_> ...that resolution is provisional until next week
14:58:49 <Karen_> ...next Friday's call will decide
14:58:57 <Karen_> ...and then we will have further discussion and that is how it works
14:59:03 <Karen_> Dave: encourage people to comment in Github
14:59:12 <Karen_> ...and ask if anyone objects to this resolution next week
14:59:19 <Karen_> Ivan: that is worth emphasizing for the process
14:59:32 <Karen_> ...If on the next call the issue or discussion relative to previous resolution
14:59:45 <Karen_> ...if there is no discussion, it will automatically become final
14:59:55 <Karen_> ...there is a one-week period where any members of the WG can object
15:00:00 <Karen_> ...Almost top of the hour
15:00:08 <Karen_> ...unless there are any other questions or business
15:00:13 <dkaplan3> dkaplan3 has left #epub
15:00:16 <Karen_> ...hope to see most of you next week, or if not, in two weeks
15:00:27 <ivan> zakim, end meeting
15:00:27 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been ivan, wendyreid, avneesh, dauwhe, deborah, george, shinya, mgarrish, toshiakikoike, shiestyle, MasakazuKitahara, CharlesL, daihei, karen,
15:00:28 <Karen_> ...Thank you for coming to the first EPUB 3.3 call!
15:00:30 <Zakim> ... dkaplan, billk, garth, juliette, brady, duga
15:00:30 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:00:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/09/11-epub-minutes.html Zakim
15:00:32 <Karen_> [adjourned]
15:00:32 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, ivan; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:00:36 <Zakim> Zakim has left #epub
15:03:00 <ivan> rrsagebt, bye
15:03:06 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
15:03:06 <RRSAgent> I see no action items