https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2020Sep/0000.html

<scribe> Meeting: Publishing Business Group Telecon

<jkamata> Pass word is required to join Zoom?

<ShinyaTakami> I don't know the password...

<MURATA> +present

the password is in the invite

Daihei is sending an email

<scribe> scribenick: liisamk

<MURATA> I haven't received the password yet.

<Daihei> @junko Please see my re-sent email listing the correct passcode for the Zoom link

Update on EPUB WG

<dauwhe> https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/epub-wg/

dauwhe: first meeting will be friday
... encourage W3C members who have not yet joined to have AC rep join the group

*sorry, kitten typed that

shinya: intro in japanese
... telling everyone that this week meeting may be hard for Japanese, but next week good for Japan time
... make everyone feel easier

PBG special meeting during TPAC

daihei: 2 meetings on 10/13 in times for NA/Europe and NA/Asia
... 90 minutes in our usual times + half hour and on the same day
... special meeting to discuss the needs and interests from the digital publishing business community
... immediate and prospective business interests
... example of immediate, fixed + reflow features for current epub3 spec
... Shinya has asked to address some special use cases for the fixed + reflow cases in Japan

shinya: explained that the japanese market is 70% of the market
... current epub files are complicated structure
... would like to simplify the fixed layout for manga so that the image elements are in the spine
... would like to talk about this and the next gen of epub in the WG

<wendyreid> scribe+

<wendyreid> liisamk: Is the reason we want to simplify to shorten processing time?

<wendyreid> ShinyaTakami: To reduce production cost

<wendyreid> ... some new ??? want EPUB3 but are just ripping out the image files and using those only

<wendyreid> ... it is a difficult structure for communication

<wendyreid> ... they want image files, but we need to modify EPUB, as well as make sure that spreads are represented

<wendyreid> ... they are missing those instructions

<wendyreid> ... we need to communicate with new service providers to treat our digital contents correctly

<wendyreid> ... to do that, we should simplify EPUB

<wendyreid> liisamk: accessibility is a concern

<dauwhe> https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/browsing-the-web.html#read-media

<MURATA> +1 to Dave

<wendyreid> dauwhe: This is an important discussion to have, but we will get a lot of pushback due to the accessibility challenges

scribe+

<MURATA> +q

<wendyreid> ShinyaTakami: Accessibility is important, but manga is a challenge in that the text is not on the images, it's embedded

<wendyreid> ... it would be a challenge to add the text

murata: thinks that making manga accessible is writing down everything in text

wendyreid: accessibility is important and comics are done very much like manga and often the text is embedded
... there are not just people who are visually impaired and may be different needs for accessibility
... worthwhile undertaking

<MURATA> +q

Murata: some services explain the image and read

liisamk: are the manga and comics have text embedded now as a newer practice?

shinya: many books have hundreds of pages and images, and many reading systems only handle images and do not welcome complicating it
... rs vendors want simple to treat epubs
... files in the epub package become half the current number of files

daihei: want to clarify from people from publishing companies, on the accessibility issue
... manga is graphical representation of the story
... there are others like novels in Japan

<MURATA> You might have heard of LL manga.

daihei: mobilization is a different product of the manga

<MURATA> I actually agree with Yoshii-san.

jyoshii: people needing accessibility features do not prioritize manga as much as newly released text based books
... novels, nonfiction, educational materials
... need to make these accessible first and not manga as first priority

<MURATA> +q

wendyreid: kind of sounds like the problem here in NA, people want new things that come out
... otherwise they have to get a special service to make it and maybe that is why demand is low?

jyoshii: story of neuroscience theory and the complexity of finding accessible manga is not easy
... according to Takeshi Uro (sp?) pointed out that the brain functions differently with the structure of typesetting
... coming to the picture of the japanese typesetting issues creates different understanding of content and reading habits
... may contribute to the manga preference

murata: should focus on textbooks because students need to read and they can't
... many who want to read manga read it because their friends read, but they don't want to spend time
... if you don't read manga, you won't have trouble in school, but if you can't read textbooks, you will
... have trouble in school
... rewrite everything in japanese manga for making really accessible
... have established symbols for many things and there are picture idioms for explaining emotions and situations
... they can be hard to understand for people with ADHD
... will give a reference

<MURATA> https://mediag.bunka.go.jp/article/article-15535/

<MURATA> +1

<MURATA> Exactly

<wendyreid> liisamk: It sounds like Japan is now where we were a few years earlier, thinking about how to make content the best version of itself, accessible and readable

<wendyreid> ... not just a simple translation

Business interests

<wendyreid> liisamk: Combining reflow and FXL, how would that appear in reading systems, what are the business requirements for this kind of content

<wendyreid> ... things like cook books, craft books, art books, great examples of content where you'd like that mixed format content

<wendyreid> ... some fixed layout pages in combination with reflow contnet

<wendyreid> ... are there similar requirements in Japan?

jkamata: key things for digital publishing to consider making available is to make text based books readable in audio
... text to speech
... most of the publishers are not agreeing to the fact to make TTS capable because audio is another rights

<MURATA> FYI: Again in Japanese. This is to republish commercially available books in DAISY. This is allowed by the Japanese copyright law. https://www.dinf.ne.jp/doc/daisy/book/daisy_yume.html

jkamata: TTS is an excellent idea to make publishing content available
... if manga is mobilized for accessibility that could be theoretically a good way to make it happen
... from the business they may see difficulty of coordinating to make it available
... concerned about rights issues
... could take a great deal of time to coordinate the industry

daihei: want to talk at the TPAC about cross-group discussions of future business interests that might need incubation
... some other groups within the W3C like the WOT working on smart tech interop
... smart city, smart house, smart cars
... people from WOT would like to join in to talk
... also Media and Entertainment
... want to make some presentation
... PBG meeting next is 9/22 and then the TPAC meetings on 10/13

This is scribe.perl Revision of Date 
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/grop ]/group/
Succeeded: s/simply/simplify/
Succeeded: s/one/only/
Present: Daihei liisamk ShinyaTakami jkamata present MURATA wendyreid jyoshii
Found ScribeNick: liisamk
Inferring Scribes: liisamk
WARNING: Date not understood: 8/9 September 2020

WARNING: No date found!  Assuming today.  (Hint: Specify
the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.)
Or specify the date like this:
<dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002

People with action items: 

WARNING: IRC log location not specified!  (You can ignore this 
warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain 
a link to the original IRC log.)