<jcraig> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1311

<scribe> scribe: jamesn

CM: we are talking trees
... carbon design system at IBM - had questions

MK: when saying there is a side panel with active element - there is a side panel that shows content related to active element in the tree
... INBOX - if it is the active item then it shows the active item in a panel

CM: something in the panel which allows you to edit the active element or maybe the selected one
... as soon as you decouple selection from focus or multiselect then that idea - concept - of the active thing being decoupled from selected is exposed visually but it is not semantically encoded....

MK: I did put a note in the comment. Per aria - the way aria-current is defined you don't use it where it would mean the same thing as selection but there is an out there with the ability to use aria-current if you need a meaning different from selection. No example but that was the intention
... we discussed the idea of adding more tokens as use cases emerged

SB: do we have definitions for active, selected, focussed
... is the following. inbox is selected - move focus down to received but inbox is still active... then select received mail and then we have selection which may be different from active which may be different from focussed
... we did this for an online code editor
... focus, selection and active are independent

JC: going to macOS mail - selecting multiple folders... there is no visual indication of active in the treelist. CTRL+OPTION+J goes to next related thing....
... is there an equivalent in Windows - a visual indicator to denote the difference between active selection and selected selection

SH: normally selection follows focus

MK: in outlook the selected and active items are the same

SH: can select multiple items - so not quite as simple as selection follows focus

JC: my question is - when there are 2 selected is there a visual difference between the selected and active and the selected one

SH: no

MK: would be useful to know which is active without leaving the tree

JC: the reason I asked about the visual distinction is that the control may not be hanging onto that information

MK: just because it isn't now it doesn't mean it wouldn't need to be moving forward
... do we want to constrain to what is available today

SH: even when looking at the panel you can't clearly distinguish

MG: does it matter what is in view in this scenario
... when you decouple it.

MK: I think it matters when navigating the tree view
... depending on if the folder is opened or if a new item is <scribe lost>
... presumably there is an additional key to move over. Pressing enter would make active.

JC: concrete example

finder / explorer etc

can selected multiple things in the tree

is you were going to use drag drop. Can select multiple folders and drag into the file active view

can happen more in certain views

like an IDE for example

MK: to be clear on it. we are trying to answer the question - do we want to be able to convey active independently from selection and focus

CM: moving to Q3

"Space key. APG guidance separates unmodified Space key and Enter key, using Enter to "activate" a node (i.e. perform its default behavior), and Space to aid in selection in a multi-select tree. But Space is typically used for "activation" on Mac (see #1438), so if a tree wants to use both Space and Enter for the default action, what would the keyboard guidance be for multiple selection? Same as the "Alternative selection model", where modifiers

are always required to retain the current selection?"

<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to discuss the "just make them checkboxes" comment, and then the "space vs enter" comment

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