IRC log of idcg on 2020-08-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:52:44 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #idcg
13:52:44 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/08/18-idcg-irc
13:53:17 [tink]
TOPIC: IDCG meeting
13:53:27 [tink]
rrsagent, set logs world-visible
13:54:49 [tink]
zakim, clear the agenda
13:54:49 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
13:54:57 [tink]
agenda+ PubRules guidance on gender identity
13:55:06 [tink]
agenda+ Diversity fund update
13:55:21 [tink]
agenda+ ERB update
13:55:34 [tink]
agenda+ Feedback about the proposed BLM statement
13:55:49 [tink]
agenda+ Scheduling a virtual TPAC meeting with the PWE CG
13:59:58 [tink]
agenda+ Adding an "outcomes" section to the thematic pages
14:10:41 [tink]
zakim, take up item 1
14:10:41 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "PubRules guidance on gender identity" taken up [from tink]
14:11:02 [tink]
relevant issues https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/15 and https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/17
14:12:17 [hober]
present+
14:14:36 [tink]
LW: W3 team has added editorial guidance to PubRules around the use of pronouns.
14:15:04 [tink]
... EO has shared its guidance, which is to use proper names and not use pronouns.
14:16:00 [tink]
Barb: Intel has creatd an industry awareness website.
14:16:40 [tink]
... We wanted to be proactive.
14:17:24 [Barb_H]
Barb_H has joined #IDCG
14:17:43 [Barb_H]
Intel Inclusive Language - https://intel.sharepoint.com/sites/InclusiveLanguage/SitePages/Industry-Awareness.aspx
14:18:22 [tink]
Tess: A lot of the EO guidance is good.
14:18:23 [wendyreid]
present+
14:18:33 [tink]
... Some things coule be improved.
14:19:18 [hober]
current wording: "Using "he or she" addresses many issues, yet not that of people who do not want to be referred to as either "he" or "she"."
14:19:49 [hober]
suggested wording: "Do not refer to people as "he or she", because that is not inclusive of non-binary people or others who prefer different pronouns."
14:20:34 [tink]
... the guidance says to generally avoid using pronouns unless for exceptions.
14:20:41 [koalie]
present+ Coralie
14:21:00 [tink]
... One way to be subtley uninclusive could be to avoid using any pronoun instead of a person's preferred pronouns.
14:21:13 [tink]
... I understand the reasoning but think it is nuanced.
14:21:46 [tink]
... It says avoid using singular.. pronouns because it's difficult language.
14:22:01 [tink]
... It's been part of English since the time of Chaucer, so not sure this is the case.
14:23:27 [tink]
Barb: Intel advised using words like colleague or participant.
14:23:33 [tink]
Tess: Good idea.
14:23:53 [chaals]
chaals has joined #idcg
14:23:56 [tink]
... avoiding gendered words like "businessman" for example.
14:24:44 [Barb_H]
Source https://www.mypronouns.org/resources
14:24:55 [hober]
s/singular.. pronouns/singular "they"/
14:25:01 [tink]
Wendy: +1 to Tess.
14:25:12 [tink]
... Learning new language is hard but we do it all the time.
14:25:38 [tink]
Léonie: +1 to Tess and Wedny.
14:25:55 [chaals]
present+
14:26:03 [tink]
Barb: Intel reference an organisation that may be able to help.
14:26:09 [chaals]
rrsagent, draft minutes please
14:26:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/08/18-idcg-minutes.html chaals
14:26:30 [tink]
zakim, close item
14:26:30 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'close item', tink
14:26:36 [tink]
zakim, take up item 2
14:26:36 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Diversity fund update" taken up [from tink]
14:27:05 [koalie]
present: Léonie, WendyR, Vagner, Barb, chaals
14:27:07 [koalie]
scribenick: koalie
14:27:18 [koalie]
q+
14:27:26 [koalie]
q-
14:27:36 [chaals]
present+ Tess
14:28:32 [vagner]
vagner has joined #idcg
14:29:31 [koalie]
Coralie: I'm happy with the amount pledged that is pretty similar to last year's (roughly 14K)
14:30:28 [chaals]
[+1 WBS is probably not ideal…]
14:30:47 [koalie]
Wendy: application process?
14:31:07 [chaals]
q+ to suggest we ask for email applications - maintaining the criteria that we're not going to be judging on written english but the meaning of the content in the application
14:32:12 [koalie]
Coralie: we usually time applications with TPAC registration
14:32:24 [koalie]
... this is delayed to September 8
14:32:53 [koalie]
... we need a WBS form, form the committee
14:33:10 [koalie]
Wendy: we need to sort out how/when we can give fund on hand
14:33:36 [koalie]
Léonie: perhaps we can give them money before people make the purchase
14:33:55 [koalie]
... this would fix the problem of people being out of pocket, and W3C fulfilling
14:34:13 [koalie]
ack ch
14:34:13 [Zakim]
chaals, you wanted to suggest we ask for email applications - maintaining the criteria that we're not going to be judging on written english but the meaning of the content in the
14:34:16 [Zakim]
... application
14:34:29 [koalie]
chaals: WBS is clunky if you're not used to it
14:34:52 [koalie]
... asking for a basic message "this is what I want and what I'm going to do" on wechat whatsapp or else
14:35:00 [koalie]
... we want to make it easy
14:35:37 [koalie]
... we also need to reinforce that we are not going to judge how the requests are phrases
14:35:41 [koalie]
s/ses/sed/
14:35:56 [wendyreid]
q+
14:36:23 [koalie]
... We could ask for an e-mail link that verify expense
14:36:35 [koalie]
... because bank transfers are not cheap
14:36:57 [koalie]
... or making a payment through Amazon is fairly straight forward
14:37:10 [koalie]
ack w
14:37:34 [koalie]
WendyR: I just remembered that we may need to do more for people who don't have credit card or paypal
14:38:09 [koalie]
Léonie: or reach out to someone in the community who's able to act as intermediary and help
14:38:56 [koalie]
chaals: if you don't have a credit card and have an address, people know what services to use
14:39:20 [koalie]
Léonie: the next step is to set us up
14:39:25 [Barb_H]
+q
14:39:37 [koalie]
Coralie: I take the action
14:39:48 [koalie]
Wendy: we laid out the same criteria as last year
14:40:07 [koalie]
... Coralie, if you draft something, I'm happy to review
14:40:36 [koalie]
chaals: we need to make sure applicants include how much money they need
14:40:49 [koalie]
ack B
14:40:57 [koalie]
Barb: is this only for TPAC?
14:41:11 [koalie]
... the reason I ask is we have a very successful ML workshop
14:41:33 [koalie]
... in the future, could other venues or events leverage the diversity fund?
14:41:48 [chaals]
[I am most interested in looking at how we leverage the experience of the diversity fund to cover particpation in a wider range of activities…]
14:42:04 [koalie]
Léonie: my immediate reaction with chair hat off is that it would be a good idea
14:42:12 [koalie]
... perhaps if there's left-over fund
14:42:49 [koalie]
chaals: I'm especially interested in this
14:43:02 [tink]
zakim, close the que
14:43:02 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'close the que', tink
14:43:11 [koalie]
... it's a very important exercise
14:43:18 [koalie]
Zakim, close this item
14:43:18 [Zakim]
agendum 2 closed
14:43:19 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:43:19 [Zakim]
1. PubRules guidance on gender identity [from tink]
14:43:25 [koalie]
Zakim, agenda?
14:43:25 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
14:43:26 [Zakim]
1. PubRules guidance on gender identity [from tink]
14:43:26 [Zakim]
3. ERB update [from tink]
14:43:26 [Zakim]
4. Feedback about the proposed BLM statement [from tink]
14:43:26 [Zakim]
5. Scheduling a virtual TPAC meeting with the PWE CG [from tink]
14:43:26 [Zakim]
6. Adding an "outcomes" section to the thematic pages [from tink]
14:43:28 [tink]
https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/14
14:43:42 [koalie]
Zakim, take up item 3
14:43:42 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "ERB update" taken up [from tink]
14:43:46 [koalie]
Tess: No news
14:43:55 [koalie]
Zakim, close this item
14:43:55 [Zakim]
agendum 3 closed
14:43:56 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:43:56 [Zakim]
1. PubRules guidance on gender identity [from tink]
14:44:02 [chaals]
s/exercise/exercise and I have actually secured a (sofar small) funding commitment if we can make it work
14:44:08 [koalie]
Zakim, take up next item
14:44:08 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "PubRules guidance on gender identity" taken up [from tink]
14:44:13 [koalie]
Zakim, take up next item
14:44:13 [Zakim]
agendum 1 was just opened, koalie
14:44:16 [koalie]
Zakim, close item 1
14:44:16 [Zakim]
agendum 1, PubRules guidance on gender identity, closed
14:44:17 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:44:17 [Zakim]
4. Feedback about the proposed BLM statement [from tink]
14:44:20 [koalie]
Zakim, take up next item
14:44:20 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Feedback about the proposed BLM statement" taken up [from tink]
14:44:42 [koalie]
Léonie: Review ends at midnight Eastern Time tonight
14:44:54 [koalie]
... WendyR has a summary
14:46:10 [koalie]
WendyR: one comment about "violence", another @@, and third which I find is the most valid was whether ours was a marketing message as there's been a lot already
14:46:20 [chaals]
[I suspect going slowly actually reinforces the message that this is about being serious, rather than just leaping on a marketing bandwagon]
14:46:44 [koalie]
... with regard to rewriting, I have not done yet proposed anything
14:46:49 [koalie]
... regarding "violence"
14:47:01 [chaals]
s/@@/was the suggestion that 'all lives matter' as a reason not to support a statement particularly aboput black lives
14:47:30 [tink]
zakim, q?
14:47:30 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:47:44 [Barb_H]
+ q
14:47:49 [koalie]
WendyR: @@
14:48:52 [tink]
zakim, q?
14:48:52 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:48:57 [koalie]
s/about "/about suggesting we condone "/
14:49:46 [chaals]
s/@@/Many organisations have pointed out that they don't like violence, and while it has occurred, we hope that solving the systemic oroblems like racism will actually lead to a reduction in violence which we would like to see
14:49:57 [koalie]
Léonie: Is there anymore we can or should do beyond including the list of actions
14:50:06 [koalie]
... to reinforce this is not a marketing statement
14:50:10 [koalie]
WendyR: I don't think so
14:50:26 [koalie]
... A few had wording suggestions, we can look at those
14:50:37 [vagner]
q+ should we say something on comments on the time to statement has passed?
14:50:48 [chaals]
q+ vagner
14:51:03 [koalie]
Barb: you may want to double check what other people have done
14:51:16 [koalie]
... Grace Hopper put a statement that is anti-violence and anti-racism
14:51:44 [koalie]
... on the actions, I reviewed with upper management
14:52:37 [koalie]
... if you put yourself in the [shoes] of your audience, you can review whether your wording works
14:52:53 [koalie]
... I'll post the link to the Linux Foundation
14:53:00 [koalie]
ack v
14:53:23 [koalie]
Vagner: I saw comments that the time to make a statement has passed already
14:53:26 [koalie]
... do we concur?
14:53:29 [chaals]
q+ to respond to vagner
14:53:34 [koalie]
... should we change anything in the statement?
14:53:39 [tink]
koalie: q+
14:53:50 [koalie]
q+ tink
14:54:02 [koalie]
s/koalie: q+//
14:54:02 [tink]
zakim, close the queue
14:54:02 [Zakim]
ok, tink, the speaker queue is closed
14:54:02 [chaals]
q- later
14:54:03 [Barb_H]
Linux Foundation program link in their statement - https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/diversity-inclusiveness/programs/
14:54:28 [koalie]
ack t
14:54:40 [koalie]
Léonie: two thoughts on timeliness
14:55:00 [chaals]
q-
14:55:10 [koalie]
... a global brand started their statement by saying they took time to do their research before they published their statement
14:55:16 [koalie]
... it was a good rationale
14:55:18 [Barb_H]
Grace Hopper - https://www.gracehopper.com/blog/fullstack-stands-with-the-black-lives-matter-movement
14:55:36 [koalie]
Léonie: my other thought: what is really hard is momentum
14:55:48 [koalie]
... that can be helpful to support us
14:55:56 [koalie]
... I think it's still valuable for us to respond
14:55:59 [wendyreid]
+1
14:56:04 [Barb_H]
Grace Hopper - Anti racism, Anti violence message
14:56:20 [chaals]
[Indeed]
14:56:29 [koalie]
<koalie> +1
14:56:37 [koalie]
Zakim, close this item
14:56:37 [Zakim]
agendum 4 closed
14:56:37 [Barb_H]
+1
14:56:38 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:56:38 [Zakim]
5. Scheduling a virtual TPAC meeting with the PWE CG [from tink]
14:56:41 [chaals]
s/ndeed/+1 to Léonie]
14:56:50 [koalie]
Léonie: we've been planning a joing meeting with the PWE CG during TPAC
14:57:13 [koalie]
... since both meet at 2pm UTC on Tuesdays, we want to meet on October 13
14:57:20 [koalie]
... <heads-up />
14:57:26 [koalie]
Topic: next meeting
14:57:39 [koalie]
Léonie: in two weeks at 2pm UTC
14:57:43 [koalie]
... thanks everyone
14:57:52 [koalie]
... let's keep working away at these things
14:58:15 [koalie]
regrets: Tzviya
14:58:17 [koalie]
rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
14:58:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/08/18-idcg-minutes.html koalie
14:58:37 [koalie]
regrets+ JulienT
14:58:39 [koalie]
rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
14:58:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/08/18-idcg-minutes.html koalie
15:00:26 [koalie]
s/TOPIC:/Meeting:/
15:00:28 [koalie]
rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
15:00:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/08/18-idcg-minutes.html koalie
15:00:39 [koalie]
chair: LéonieWatson
15:00:40 [koalie]
rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
15:00:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/08/18-idcg-minutes.html koalie
15:01:44 [koalie]
i|relevant issues|scribenick: tink|
15:01:45 [koalie]
rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
15:01:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/08/18-idcg-minutes.html koalie
15:02:27 [koalie]
regrets+ wseltzer
15:02:31 [koalie]
rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
15:02:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/08/18-idcg-minutes.html koalie
15:02:49 [koalie]
present+ Coralie
15:03:08 [koalie]
rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
15:03:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/08/18-idcg-minutes.html koalie
15:49:22 [koalie]
s/coule/could
15:49:29 [koalie]
s/dny/ndy/
15:52:08 [koalie]
s/aboput/about/
15:52:43 [koalie]
s/oroblems/problems/
15:54:00 [koalie]
s/I+1/+1/
15:54:34 [koalie]
i|Léonie: we've been planning|Topic: Scheduling a virtual TPAC meeting with the PWE CG|
15:54:38 [koalie]
rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
15:54:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/08/18-idcg-minutes.html koalie
15:55:37 [koalie]
RRSAgent, bye
15:55:37 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items