<CharlesHall> can we just have cookies be the agenda?

+1

<scribe> scribe: sajkaj

<jeanne> +1 for cookies. Adjourned

Joint meetings with AGWG 18 August (Rachael)

js: Much of today's agenda is announcements ...
... Joint meeting on the 18th again with AGWG
... Beginning 11:00 Boston Time

<CharlesHall> so both? Silver plus joint AG?

<jeanne> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-silver/2020Aug/0020.html

js: This is in addition to our usual Tuesday Silver mtg

<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_silver-fri

js: Wrong mtg ...

<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_ag

js: That's the one!
... Two agenda: Survey and a Combined Proposal from Deep Dive slide deck

Survey on editorial notes (AGWG)

<jeanne> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/2020-08-silvereditorsnotes/?login

js: Includes draft proposals for several Editors' Notes from this past Tuesday
... Please try to respond on WBS especially if you can't participate this coming Tuesday

Conformance changes from Deep Dive

<jeanne> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1yZLF29X3SoDyn1ph8KSTn5nYCC_P4E6fw1zbrUo35uA/edit#slide=id.p

js: This from Rachael, Detlev and me working together ...
... Notes detlev has deep conformance experience
... Notes elements adopted from the several proposals to date, both JF and RM
... From RM';s 3 levels down to 2 --

rm: percentage or adjectival

js: Works through the slide ...

js Slide #4

<Fazio> Fits in well q+

jf: Asks on handling when there's no content; just good structure/templates, etc; where does that fit?

js: functional outcomes doesn't require actual content

jf: Everything defined as functional outcome?

js: Yes. Looks may be the SC replacement, just more granular
... Notes whether functional categories should be normative to be discussed Tuesday

<CharlesHall> and the functional categories are those we have identified in the functional needs list?

js: Argument against is that some countries have their own, incompatible category lists

<CharlesHall> for example: Essential, Sensory, Physical, Cognitive, and Independence?

df: functional needs vs user needs? will we differentiate?
... How would that affect this proposal?

js: We stopped using the term "functional need" because people were getting confused
... now "functional categories"

[notes error in slide -- should be "user needs"]

<CharlesHall> sorry, but that is functional need NOT user need

js in slide #4

df: good

js: functional outcome tests whether user need is met
... functional outcomes will have more discussion Tuesday -- see slide #6
... now slide #7
... notes is same text, different presentation

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to mention flexible presentation

michael: suggests multiple presentational strategies rather than flat table
... could generate some if desired
... different versions may be appropriate to different documents

js: good idea
... now slide #8 -- scope
... declare X and Y -- whatever we call paths and views
... guidance provided, but decisions are made by the tester
... want to support flexibility
... slide #9
... suggests additive points ...

jf: confirming that scope needn't have paths? might be just views? I can think of examples
... will scoping be flixible that way?

js: OK, good topic

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to ask about views conformance

mc: if a view in a path doesn't conform, then the path doesn't conform?

js: yes

mc: any motivation to evaluate paths if conformance only on views?

js: steps through process of scoping a claim ...

<Fazio> Failure aggregate for COGA?

js: big change is that a critical failure on the path or less than 50% pass -- scores 0 --
... notes number scale (for discussion)
... total score is average across all views -- bronze 90% average and 0 critical failures
... beyond is over and beyond additive

Designs for Howto & Methods

mw: shares his screen on Zoom

js: showing design changes -- please describe for nonvisual folks

mw: notes tab interface
... minimize tabbing ...
... has sidenav and main content section
... also a rightside nav for more random access
... discusses examples ...
... looking for feedback before proceeding ...

mc: looks good -- suggests not to overthink -- and let's engage EO who care about these things lots
... wonders about the howtos

js: Understanding doc equiv

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to ask about the ¨how to¨s and to note EO review

fs: likes option b -- works better than tabs

<Crispy> +1 to redesign - very nice

js: notes often send pointer to something within a page

fs: looks clearer -- worries about too many howtos

js: notes is prototype -- not our permanent design
... is response to difficulties in our present design; and we want to show improved usability

mw: agrees we can work on white space options

mc: also prefers option b
... suggests rightnav could also be filters

js: Hmm, in my mind filter on left rather than listing every ...

mc: certainly filters somewhere; important to keep in mind for later

js: Should be another Note in fpwd

jf: asks where's the "home page" and what that looks like?

js: not yet figured out -- will be the tr for fpwd, though not long term

jf: how do I go from clear lang to color contrast? Where's the starting point? the master list?

js: probably left column
... but still to work out

jf: also like the look/layout, but unsure about the pathing

mw: good point

jf: understand is wip

js: also reminds me about bread crumbs

<kirkwood> +1 for breadcrumbs!

<Fazio> Breadcrumbs are good

<JF> +1 for breadcrumbs

<kirkwood> can ski[

<kirkwood> ckip

<kirkwood> breadcrmbs was my point

<Fazio> I like Moodle's breadcrumb structure

js: screen shot would be good ..

df: will do

Need for test examples

jk also concerned to have bread crumbs; very important;

Decision Policy

js: please, we need more for the fpwd
... by end next week need test examples
... our plain language editing pass begins on the 24th

Metrics for Conformance

Decision Policy

<jeanne> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/94845/2020-08-decision-policy/results

js: Notes WBS with only a few responses

<CharlesHall> i was unable to take the survey due to account access to link

js: would like to review comments and ask whether we need make changes

<Todd> I was unable to take the survey as well

mc: couldn't figure it out -- still working on it

js: should we reopen?

<JF> +1 to re-open

js: and revisit next friday?

<Fazio> Just sent breadcrumb example

<KimD> +1 to reopening the survey

mc: yes, let's

js: OK

mc: notes agrees with bb's request for better term than "sleeper objection"

jf: Notes his response a Deque response; discussed within Deque

js: would appreciate plain lang assist
... asks for plain lang assist? Anyone? Please contact me
... Reminds of Tuesday calls; Silver then with AGWG

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