Meeting minutes
This meeting
Nigel: Today we celebrate IMSC 1.2 Rec! And consider the ARIB liaison response.
… TTML2 IR - I've had a look and would like to mention a couple of things
… Lastly a small amount of TPAC planning.
… Any other business, or points to ensure we cover?
Pierre: Is that TTML2 issue on the agenda?
Nigel: Not currently.
Pierre: 1211 - the one about writingMode and direction
… I guess if Cyril is not on the call maybe it will be a short discussion.
Nigel: We can raise it.
group: [no other business]
IMSC 1.2 Rec
Nigel: Congratulations all, and thank you all for your work on this, it's great to publish!
… Special shout out to Pierre for Editing.
Nigel: I think there is no more to do on this?
Atsushi: I don't think there are any additional tasks for this Rec.
Pierre: So Pull Request #563 should be merged?
… And 565 good to merge too?
Atsushi: Yes, that's in the Rec.
Pierre: So all the outstanding Pulls should be merged?
Atsushi: Please be careful not to conflict 564 and 565
Pierre: Yes, though the current ED is the Rec because there's no modification
Atsushi: Right
Pierre: Thank you, I will merge.
Atsushi: 564 is the actual source file I used for publication.
<atsushi> https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/564#issuecomment-667834906
Pierre: I will be careful with that then
… And in the Rec the group has been changed in the respec settings?
Atsushi: No, the respec config is internal now, replacing the settings doesn't change the output.
Pierre: Ok that's fine. But the Rec did not include pull 563
Atsushi: Yes, it does not include it, but it does include 565.
Pierre: Alright, I will take care of that. I will merge 565 into 564 and then that will be the Rec,
… and then separately will merge 563.
Atsushi: sure.
Pierre: OK I'll take of this, thanks.
ARIB liaison response
Nigel: Thank you to those who proposed changes on the google doc, they all made sense
… so I accepted them all.
… Just checking in, did anyone try to look at the google doc and fail?
group: [silence]
Nigel: Ok, a good sign.
… I think this is good. There's one TODO on it, so we should do that and send.
Pierre: There's some cleaning up, but I'm happy with the substance. Commas and full-stops
… missing etc.
Nigel: I will proof-read before sending.
… For the TODO, I need to point them at somewhere for joining TTWG.
… Could put me, or the home page, or the Charter. Is there a normal way to do it?
Atsushi: Normally there would be a cover page, but for this time I think it is fine to include
… the Charter/Home page and How to Join in that section of the response.
Nigel: If I'm suggesting someone to talk to, should I mention the Chairs and yourself Atsushi?
Atsushi: I suppose they will take the Chairs and team contact as myself from the liaisons page.
Nigel: If ARIB members see this they are unlikely to know about the W3C liaisons page.
… Better to be clear about how to join and who to talk to.
… That's the Chairs and Team Contact I think. Good.
Nigel: What review opportunities do we want?
… By default, I think we're at the point where I can edit this and send it almost as is.
… But if anyone wants more review time, please say!
… I won't come to this until Monday at the earliest.
Pierre: My recommendation is if you want to make the editorial pass, post it through the
… reflector, give people 1 day and then proceed.
Nigel: Thanks for that.
… I think it's in the remit of the Chair to send this, and I really appreciate the input so far.
… I will give a short review cycle and then proceed.
… Thank you all!
… We've spent a lot of time on this and I feel it is worthwhile.
TTML 2 2nd Ed.
Nigel: Last week I mentioned that the IR covers a lot of features, none of which are at risk.
… I checked again and I think the structure of the IR doesn't quite match what the exit criteria
… need. In particular there are changed features that have validation tests but no presentation
… tests, and we may have presentation implementations that could usefully be brought in.
… I'm thinking in particular about the implied audio features, where there is only a validation
… test but there may be a presentation implementation.
… Therefore I think we may need to restructure in relation the changed features and group
… the tests like that instead of around validation pass/fail + presentation tests.
… My thinking on that is work in progress.
… I think the action for me is to follow up on this with Cyril and Glenn.
Virtual TPAC 2020 planning
Nigel: Thank you for your ongoing help organising, Atsushi.
… Things are in progress with MEIG and Media WG, and with CSS WG.
… However with CSS WG we don't have a list of agenda items, and I think it would be
… helpful to begin putting that together if we can.
… They may not be obvious, for example font fingerprinting could be one of them.
Pierre: I think Cyril is key to this - he's recently filed an issue against Chrome for example.
Nigel: I saw that, about oblique.
Nigel: Then there's a request to us!
… Janina from APA asked for a joint meeting about formalising synchronisation requirements
… for making media accessible when there are different representations, e.g. text + audio.
… That was my understanding.
… I think we should say yes. We obviously do care about synchronisation of timed text
… against media, and we don't know the shape of what they're proposing at this time.
… Assuming there are no naysayers, I will respond positively.
Gary: No objections here.
… This goes hand in hand with what Chris Needham from BBC has been doing about the
… timing of the cue events and time updates in the media element and how, because they
… happen so infrequently, it's hard to synchronise.
Nigel: Yes, I think it does.
… I think one of the things APA is interested to know is if there are different thresholds for
… synchronisation accuracy for different kinds of presentation.
… This email was sent to me and Gary. I think she may not know about the links with
… MEIG and Media WG, so we should respond to inform APA about that work.
Nigel: I Chair ADCG too and asked them if they would like to spend time with us here, but
… so far the silence implies they're happy for us to continue, I think.
Nigel: Separately I think we have dates for the AC week in virtual TPAC 2020 now...
… Thank you Atsushi for sending the details to the member-tt reflector.
AOB - Chairing on 2020-08-13
Nigel: Regrets from me for next week. Assumption is the meeting goes ahead as normal?
Gary: I can probably Chair it.
Nigel: It doesn't seem that there's a huge amount for the agenda.
Atsushi: do we plan long group meeting in solid date/time?
Nigel: During TPAC?
Atsushi: yes. 3 weeks of proposed meetings.
… 1st joint.
… 2nd group meetings.
… 3rd breakouts
… Do we plan to have our group meeting during TPAC?
Nigel: I would be in favour - I think there are topics that could warrant a longer session.
Pierre: Everybody is going to get the same slots so unless we need a WG meeting we should
… avoid doing so.
Nigel: I'm thinking about topics like IMSC future requirements, ADPT, TTML Live extensions
… etc. and that will need a lot of prep. I think we could use a longer session, but it needs
… prep time and it doesn't have to be in virtual TPAC, it could be later.
Pierre: Exactly.
Nigel: In answer, I think we quite likely won't meet, and if we do then it would likely be
… maximum one day.
Atsushi: We need to complete the wiki form, so if we can fix that it would be a great help
… for me.
Nigel: Understood!
(AOB) Interaction between tts:writingMode and tts:direction on <p> w3c/ttml#1211
github: https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/1211
Nigel: One thing I note about this is Direction003 used to be in TTML tests and has moved
… to IMSC tests and that has confused a couple of people independently recently.
… Does anyone else feel that an explainer for Where to Find TTML Tests would be a useful document?
Pierre: Looking at Glenn's comments, he thinks TTPE's presentation is wrong.
Nigel: He thinks the reference render is wrong though.
Pierre: [explains how the lines in the p all use the whole width so the layout direction - scribe failure]
Nigel: Is textAlign used in the test?
Pierre: It would be weird for textAlign to be affected by writingMode.
… I think we need an answer from Glenn.
Nigel: How do you know the line areas cover the whole width? That seems unusual.
Pierre: Exactly.
Pierre: Maybe we need to get everyone around the table for that with examples.
Nigel: I'm sure if we schedule this for a meeting and invite Glenn then we can gather him and
… anyone else interested.
Andreas: I planned also to look into this issue so please keep me posted if you schedule a
… separate meeting.
Nigel: My default here would be to use one of these TTWG weekly calls if possible.
Nigel: Let's allow the conversation to continue on the issue thread, and convene a meeting
… perhaps in 2 weeks time, if there are outstanding questions.
Pierre: Alright.
SUMMARY: Continue discussions on the issue thread for the time being.
Meeting close
Nigel: The clock has just ticked over to the hour, and we've completed our agenda. I'm adjourning this meeting!