15:02:02 RRSAgent has joined #tt 15:02:02 logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/08/06-tt-irc 15:02:05 RRSAgent, make logs Public 15:02:06 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 15:03:47 Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/134 15:03:55 Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2020/07/30-tt-minutes.html 15:04:02 Present+ Nigel 15:04:06 Chair: Nigel, Gary 15:04:08 scribe: nigel 15:06:37 Present+ Andreas, Atsushi, Gary, Mike, Pierre 15:07:16 Topic: This meeting 15:07:35 Nigel: Today we celebrate IMSC 1.2 Rec! And consider the ARIB liaison response. 15:07:53 .. TTML2 IR - I've had a look and would like to mention a couple of things 15:08:10 .. Lastly a small amount of TPAC planning. 15:08:24 .. Any other business, or points to ensure we cover? 15:08:36 Pierre: Is that TTML2 issue on the agenda? 15:08:39 Nigel: Not currently. 15:08:55 Pierre: 1211 - the one about writingMode and direction 15:09:09 .. I guess if Cyril is not on the call maybe it will be a short discussion. 15:09:24 Nigel: We can raise it. 15:09:39 group: [no other business] 15:09:45 Topic: IMSC 1.2 Rec 15:10:40 Nigel: Congratulations all, and thank you all for your work on this, it's great to publish! 15:10:51 .. Special shout out to Pierre for Editing. 15:11:12 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-imsc1.2/ IMSC 1.2 Rec 15:11:20 Nigel: I think there is no more to do on this? 15:11:40 Atsushi: I don't think there are any additional tasks for this Rec. 15:11:49 Pierre: So Pull Request #563 should be merged? 15:12:24 .. And 565 good to merge too? 15:12:29 Atsushi: Yes, that's in the Rec. 15:12:40 Pierre: So all the outstanding Pulls should be merged? 15:12:49 Atsushi: Please be careful not to conflict 564 and 565 15:13:01 Pierre: Yes, though the current ED is the Rec because there's no modification 15:13:03 Atsushi: Right 15:13:12 Pierre: Thank you, I will merge. 15:13:21 Atsushi: 564 is the actual source file I used for publication. 15:13:36 https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/564#issuecomment-667834906 15:13:53 Pierre: I will be careful with that then 15:14:24 .. And in the Rec the group has been changed in the respec settings? 15:14:39 Atsushi: No, the respec config is internal now, replacing the settings doesn't change the output. 15:14:52 Pierre: Ok that's fine. But the Rec did not include pull 563 15:15:00 Atsushi: Yes, it does not include it, but it does include 565. 15:15:14 Pierre: Alright, I will take care of that. I will merge 565 into 564 and then that will be the Rec, 15:15:17 atai has joined #tt 15:15:19 .. and then separately will merge 563. 15:15:23 Atsushi: sure. 15:15:29 Pierre: OK I'll take of this, thanks. 15:15:53 Topic: ARIB liaison response 15:16:31 Nigel: Thank you to those who proposed changes on the google doc, they all made sense 15:16:35 .. so I accepted them all. 15:17:04 .. Just checking in, did anyone try to look at the google doc and fail? 15:17:21 group: [silence] 15:17:25 Nigel: Ok, a good sign. 15:18:11 .. I think this is good. There's one TODO on it, so we should do that and send. 15:18:25 Pierre: There's some cleaning up, but I'm happy with the substance. Commas and full-stops 15:18:27 .. missing etc. 15:18:33 Nigel: I will proof-read before sending. 15:19:46 .. For the TODO, I need to point them at somewhere for joining TTWG. 15:19:59 .. Could put me, or the home page, or the Charter. Is there a normal way to do it? 15:20:14 Atsushi: Normally there would be a cover page, but for this time I think it is fine to include 15:20:24 .. the Charter/Home page and How to Join in that section of the response. 15:20:53 Nigel: If I'm suggesting someone to talk to, should I mention the Chairs and yourself Atsushi? 15:21:06 Atsushi: I suppose they will take the Chairs and team contact as myself from the liaisons page. 15:21:37 Nigel: If ARIB members see this they are unlikely to know about the W3C liaisons page. 15:21:45 .. Better to be clear about how to join and who to talk to. 15:21:57 .. That's the Chairs and Team Contact I think. Good. 15:22:38 Nigel: What review opportunities do we want? 15:22:55 .. By default, I think we're at the point where I can edit this and send it almost as is. 15:23:06 .. But if anyone wants more review time, please say! 15:23:25 .. I won't come to this until Monday at the earliest. 15:23:39 Pierre: My recommendation is if you want to make the editorial pass, post it through the 15:23:46 .. reflector, give people 1 day and then proceed. 15:23:49 Nigel: Thanks for that. 15:24:24 .. I think it's in the remit of the Chair to send this, and I really appreciate the input so far. 15:24:32 .. I will give a short review cycle and then proceed. 15:24:38 .. Thank you all! 15:25:00 .. We've spent a lot of time on this and I feel it is worthwhile. 15:25:15 Topic: TTML 2 2nd Ed. 15:25:34 Nigel: Last week I mentioned that the IR covers a lot of features, none of which are at risk. 15:27:53 .. I checked again and I think the structure of the IR doesn't quite match what the exit criteria 15:28:05 .. need. In particular there are changed features that have validation tests but no presentation 15:28:17 .. tests, and we may have presentation implementations that could usefully be brought in. 15:28:34 .. I'm thinking in particular about the implied audio features, where there is only a validation 15:28:47 .. test but there may be a presentation implementation. 15:29:00 .. Therefore I think we may need to restructure in relation the changed features and group 15:29:12 .. the tests like that instead of around validation pass/fail + presentation tests. 15:29:27 .. My thinking on that is work in progress. 15:30:05 .. I think the action for me is to follow up on this with Cyril and Glenn. 15:30:22 Topic: Virtual TPAC 2020 planning 15:30:35 Nigel: Thank you for your ongoing help organising, Atsushi. 15:30:59 .. Things are in progress with MEIG and Media WG, and with CSS WG. 15:31:13 .. However with CSS WG we don't have a list of agenda items, and I think it would be 15:31:20 .. helpful to begin putting that together if we can. 15:32:07 .. They may not be obvious, for example font fingerprinting could be one of them. 15:32:20 Pierre: I think Cyril is key to this - he's recently filed an issue against Chrome for example. 15:32:32 Nigel: I saw that, about oblique. 15:32:52 Nigel: Then there's a request to us! 15:33:12 .. Janina from APA asked for a joint meeting about formalising synchronisation requirements 15:33:27 .. for making media accessible when there are different representations, e.g. text + audio. 15:33:31 .. That was my understanding. 15:34:21 .. I think we should say yes. We obviously do care about synchronisation of timed text 15:34:31 .. against media, and we don't know the shape of what they're proposing at this time. 15:34:48 .. Assuming there are no naysayers, I will respond positively. 15:34:55 Gary: No objections here. 15:35:08 .. This goes hand in hand with what Chris Needham from BBC has been doing about the 15:35:19 .. timing of the cue events and time updates in the media element and how, because they 15:35:26 .. happen so infrequently, it's hard to synchronise. 15:35:32 Nigel: Yes, I think it does. 15:36:01 .. I think one of the things APA is interested to know is if there are different thresholds for 15:36:09 .. synchronisation accuracy for different kinds of presentation. 15:37:15 .. This email was sent to me and Gary. I think she may not know about the links with 15:37:25 .. MEIG and Media WG, so we should respond to inform APA about that work. 15:38:03 q? 15:38:41 Nigel: I Chair ADCG too and asked them if they would like to spend time with us here, but 15:38:51 .. so far the silence implies they're happy for us to continue, I think. 15:39:27 Nigel: Separately I think we have dates for the AC week in virtual TPAC 2020 now... 15:40:12 .. Thank you Atsushi for sending the details to the member-tt reflector. 15:40:55 Topic: AOB - Chairing on 2020-08-13 15:41:09 Nigel: Regrets from me for next week. Assumption is the meeting goes ahead as normal? 15:41:16 Gary: I can probably Chair it. 15:41:43 q+ do we plan long group meeting in solid date/time? 15:42:08 Nigel: It doesn't seem that there's a huge amount for the agenda. 15:42:11 ack at 15:42:29 Atsushi: do we plan long group meeting in solid date/time? 15:42:36 Nigel: During TPAC? 15:42:47 Atsushi: yes. 3 weeks of proposed meetings. 15:42:49 .. 1st joint. 15:42:53 .. 2nd group meetings. 15:42:57 .. 3rd breakouts 15:43:07 .. Do we plan to have our group meeting during TPAC? 15:43:49 Nigel: I would be in favour - I think there are topics that could warrant a longer session. 15:44:01 Pierre: Everybody is going to get the same slots so unless we need a WG meeting we should 15:44:03 .. avoid doing so. 15:45:27 Nigel: I'm thinking about topics like IMSC future requirements, ADPT, TTML Live extensions 15:45:39 .. etc. and that will need a lot of prep. I think we could use a longer session, but it needs 15:45:48 .. prep time and it doesn't have to be in virtual TPAC, it could be later. 15:45:53 Pierre: Exactly. 15:46:23 Nigel: In answer, I think we quite likely won't meet, and if we do then it would likely be 15:46:25 .. maximum one day. 15:46:38 Atsushi: We need to complete the wiki form, so if we can fix that it would be a great help 15:46:39 .. for me. 15:46:43 Nigel: Understood! 15:47:47 Topic: (AOB) Interaction between tts:writingMode and tts:direction on

w3c/ttml#1211 15:47:51 github: https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/1211 15:49:09 Nigel: One thing I note about this is Direction003 used to be in TTML tests and has moved 15:49:21 .. to IMSC tests and that has confused a couple of people independently recently. 15:49:48 .. Does anyone else feel that an explainer for Where to Find TTML Tests would be a useful document? 15:51:32 Pierre: Looking at Glenn's comments, he thinks TTPE's presentation is wrong. 15:51:38 Nigel: He thinks the reference render is wrong though. 15:53:17 Pierre: [explains how the lines in the p all use the whole width so the layout direction - scribe failure] 15:53:26 Nigel: Is textAlign used in the test? 15:53:38 Pierre: It would be weird for textAlign to be affected by writingMode. 15:54:46 .. I think we need an answer from Glenn. 15:56:11 Nigel: How do you know the line areas cover the whole width? That seems unusual. 15:56:16 Pierre: Exactly. 15:56:34 Pierre: Maybe we need to get everyone around the table for that with examples. 15:58:01 Nigel: I'm sure if we schedule this for a meeting and invite Glenn then we can gather him and 15:58:06 .. anyone else interested. 15:58:20 Andreas: I planned also to look into this issue so please keep me posted if you schedule a 15:58:23 .. separate meeting. 15:58:42 Nigel: My default here would be to use one of these TTWG weekly calls if possible. 15:59:26 Nigel: Let's allow the conversation to continue on the issue thread, and convene a meeting 15:59:37 .. perhaps in 2 weeks time, if there are outstanding questions. 15:59:46 Pierre: Alright. 16:00:03 SUMMARY: Continue discussions on the issue thread for the time being. 16:00:20 Topic: Meeting close 16:00:58 Nigel: The clock has just ticked over to the hour, and we've completed our agenda. I'm adjourning this meeting! 16:01:02 rrsagent, make minutes v2 16:01:02 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/08/06-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:07:11 scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 16:07:18 zakim, end meeting 16:07:18 As of this point the attendees have been Nigel, Andreas, Atsushi, Gary, Mike, Pierre 16:07:20 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 16:07:20 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/08/06-tt-minutes.html Zakim 16:07:23 I am happy to have been of service, nigel; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 16:07:27 Zakim has left #tt 16:07:54 rrsagent, excuse us 16:07:54 I see no action items