IRC log of tt on 2020-08-06
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/08/06-tt-irc
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- Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
- 15:03:47 [nigel]
- Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/134
- 15:03:55 [nigel]
- Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2020/07/30-tt-minutes.html
- 15:04:02 [nigel]
- Present+ Nigel
- 15:04:06 [nigel]
- Chair: Nigel, Gary
- 15:04:08 [nigel]
- scribe: nigel
- 15:06:37 [nigel]
- Present+ Andreas, Atsushi, Gary, Mike, Pierre
- 15:07:16 [nigel]
- Topic: This meeting
- 15:07:35 [nigel]
- Nigel: Today we celebrate IMSC 1.2 Rec! And consider the ARIB liaison response.
- 15:07:53 [nigel]
- .. TTML2 IR - I've had a look and would like to mention a couple of things
- 15:08:10 [nigel]
- .. Lastly a small amount of TPAC planning.
- 15:08:24 [nigel]
- .. Any other business, or points to ensure we cover?
- 15:08:36 [nigel]
- Pierre: Is that TTML2 issue on the agenda?
- 15:08:39 [nigel]
- Nigel: Not currently.
- 15:08:55 [nigel]
- Pierre: 1211 - the one about writingMode and direction
- 15:09:09 [nigel]
- .. I guess if Cyril is not on the call maybe it will be a short discussion.
- 15:09:24 [nigel]
- Nigel: We can raise it.
- 15:09:39 [nigel]
- group: [no other business]
- 15:09:45 [nigel]
- Topic: IMSC 1.2 Rec
- 15:10:40 [nigel]
- Nigel: Congratulations all, and thank you all for your work on this, it's great to publish!
- 15:10:51 [nigel]
- .. Special shout out to Pierre for Editing.
- 15:11:12 [nigel]
- -> https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-imsc1.2/ IMSC 1.2 Rec
- 15:11:20 [nigel]
- Nigel: I think there is no more to do on this?
- 15:11:40 [nigel]
- Atsushi: I don't think there are any additional tasks for this Rec.
- 15:11:49 [nigel]
- Pierre: So Pull Request #563 should be merged?
- 15:12:24 [nigel]
- .. And 565 good to merge too?
- 15:12:29 [nigel]
- Atsushi: Yes, that's in the Rec.
- 15:12:40 [nigel]
- Pierre: So all the outstanding Pulls should be merged?
- 15:12:49 [nigel]
- Atsushi: Please be careful not to conflict 564 and 565
- 15:13:01 [nigel]
- Pierre: Yes, though the current ED is the Rec because there's no modification
- 15:13:03 [nigel]
- Atsushi: Right
- 15:13:12 [nigel]
- Pierre: Thank you, I will merge.
- 15:13:21 [nigel]
- Atsushi: 564 is the actual source file I used for publication.
- 15:13:36 [atsushi]
- https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/564#issuecomment-667834906
- 15:13:53 [nigel]
- Pierre: I will be careful with that then
- 15:14:24 [nigel]
- .. And in the Rec the group has been changed in the respec settings?
- 15:14:39 [nigel]
- Atsushi: No, the respec config is internal now, replacing the settings doesn't change the output.
- 15:14:52 [nigel]
- Pierre: Ok that's fine. But the Rec did not include pull 563
- 15:15:00 [nigel]
- Atsushi: Yes, it does not include it, but it does include 565.
- 15:15:14 [nigel]
- Pierre: Alright, I will take care of that. I will merge 565 into 564 and then that will be the Rec,
- 15:15:17 [atai]
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- 15:15:19 [nigel]
- .. and then separately will merge 563.
- 15:15:23 [nigel]
- Atsushi: sure.
- 15:15:29 [nigel]
- Pierre: OK I'll take of this, thanks.
- 15:15:53 [nigel]
- Topic: ARIB liaison response
- 15:16:31 [nigel]
- Nigel: Thank you to those who proposed changes on the google doc, they all made sense
- 15:16:35 [nigel]
- .. so I accepted them all.
- 15:17:04 [nigel]
- .. Just checking in, did anyone try to look at the google doc and fail?
- 15:17:21 [nigel]
- group: [silence]
- 15:17:25 [nigel]
- Nigel: Ok, a good sign.
- 15:18:11 [nigel]
- .. I think this is good. There's one TODO on it, so we should do that and send.
- 15:18:25 [nigel]
- Pierre: There's some cleaning up, but I'm happy with the substance. Commas and full-stops
- 15:18:27 [nigel]
- .. missing etc.
- 15:18:33 [nigel]
- Nigel: I will proof-read before sending.
- 15:19:46 [nigel]
- .. For the TODO, I need to point them at somewhere for joining TTWG.
- 15:19:59 [nigel]
- .. Could put me, or the home page, or the Charter. Is there a normal way to do it?
- 15:20:14 [nigel]
- Atsushi: Normally there would be a cover page, but for this time I think it is fine to include
- 15:20:24 [nigel]
- .. the Charter/Home page and How to Join in that section of the response.
- 15:20:53 [nigel]
- Nigel: If I'm suggesting someone to talk to, should I mention the Chairs and yourself Atsushi?
- 15:21:06 [nigel]
- Atsushi: I suppose they will take the Chairs and team contact as myself from the liaisons page.
- 15:21:37 [nigel]
- Nigel: If ARIB members see this they are unlikely to know about the W3C liaisons page.
- 15:21:45 [nigel]
- .. Better to be clear about how to join and who to talk to.
- 15:21:57 [nigel]
- .. That's the Chairs and Team Contact I think. Good.
- 15:22:38 [nigel]
- Nigel: What review opportunities do we want?
- 15:22:55 [nigel]
- .. By default, I think we're at the point where I can edit this and send it almost as is.
- 15:23:06 [nigel]
- .. But if anyone wants more review time, please say!
- 15:23:25 [nigel]
- .. I won't come to this until Monday at the earliest.
- 15:23:39 [nigel]
- Pierre: My recommendation is if you want to make the editorial pass, post it through the
- 15:23:46 [nigel]
- .. reflector, give people 1 day and then proceed.
- 15:23:49 [nigel]
- Nigel: Thanks for that.
- 15:24:24 [nigel]
- .. I think it's in the remit of the Chair to send this, and I really appreciate the input so far.
- 15:24:32 [nigel]
- .. I will give a short review cycle and then proceed.
- 15:24:38 [nigel]
- .. Thank you all!
- 15:25:00 [nigel]
- .. We've spent a lot of time on this and I feel it is worthwhile.
- 15:25:15 [nigel]
- Topic: TTML 2 2nd Ed.
- 15:25:34 [nigel]
- Nigel: Last week I mentioned that the IR covers a lot of features, none of which are at risk.
- 15:27:53 [nigel]
- .. I checked again and I think the structure of the IR doesn't quite match what the exit criteria
- 15:28:05 [nigel]
- .. need. In particular there are changed features that have validation tests but no presentation
- 15:28:17 [nigel]
- .. tests, and we may have presentation implementations that could usefully be brought in.
- 15:28:34 [nigel]
- .. I'm thinking in particular about the implied audio features, where there is only a validation
- 15:28:47 [nigel]
- .. test but there may be a presentation implementation.
- 15:29:00 [nigel]
- .. Therefore I think we may need to restructure in relation the changed features and group
- 15:29:12 [nigel]
- .. the tests like that instead of around validation pass/fail + presentation tests.
- 15:29:27 [nigel]
- .. My thinking on that is work in progress.
- 15:30:05 [nigel]
- .. I think the action for me is to follow up on this with Cyril and Glenn.
- 15:30:22 [nigel]
- Topic: Virtual TPAC 2020 planning
- 15:30:35 [nigel]
- Nigel: Thank you for your ongoing help organising, Atsushi.
- 15:30:59 [nigel]
- .. Things are in progress with MEIG and Media WG, and with CSS WG.
- 15:31:13 [nigel]
- .. However with CSS WG we don't have a list of agenda items, and I think it would be
- 15:31:20 [nigel]
- .. helpful to begin putting that together if we can.
- 15:32:07 [nigel]
- .. They may not be obvious, for example font fingerprinting could be one of them.
- 15:32:20 [nigel]
- Pierre: I think Cyril is key to this - he's recently filed an issue against Chrome for example.
- 15:32:32 [nigel]
- Nigel: I saw that, about oblique.
- 15:32:52 [nigel]
- Nigel: Then there's a request to us!
- 15:33:12 [nigel]
- .. Janina from APA asked for a joint meeting about formalising synchronisation requirements
- 15:33:27 [nigel]
- .. for making media accessible when there are different representations, e.g. text + audio.
- 15:33:31 [nigel]
- .. That was my understanding.
- 15:34:21 [nigel]
- .. I think we should say yes. We obviously do care about synchronisation of timed text
- 15:34:31 [nigel]
- .. against media, and we don't know the shape of what they're proposing at this time.
- 15:34:48 [nigel]
- .. Assuming there are no naysayers, I will respond positively.
- 15:34:55 [nigel]
- Gary: No objections here.
- 15:35:08 [nigel]
- .. This goes hand in hand with what Chris Needham from BBC has been doing about the
- 15:35:19 [nigel]
- .. timing of the cue events and time updates in the media element and how, because they
- 15:35:26 [nigel]
- .. happen so infrequently, it's hard to synchronise.
- 15:35:32 [nigel]
- Nigel: Yes, I think it does.
- 15:36:01 [nigel]
- .. I think one of the things APA is interested to know is if there are different thresholds for
- 15:36:09 [nigel]
- .. synchronisation accuracy for different kinds of presentation.
- 15:37:15 [nigel]
- .. This email was sent to me and Gary. I think she may not know about the links with
- 15:37:25 [nigel]
- .. MEIG and Media WG, so we should respond to inform APA about that work.
- 15:38:03 [nigel]
- q?
- 15:38:41 [nigel]
- Nigel: I Chair ADCG too and asked them if they would like to spend time with us here, but
- 15:38:51 [nigel]
- .. so far the silence implies they're happy for us to continue, I think.
- 15:39:27 [nigel]
- Nigel: Separately I think we have dates for the AC week in virtual TPAC 2020 now...
- 15:40:12 [nigel]
- .. Thank you Atsushi for sending the details to the member-tt reflector.
- 15:40:55 [nigel]
- Topic: AOB - Chairing on 2020-08-13
- 15:41:09 [nigel]
- Nigel: Regrets from me for next week. Assumption is the meeting goes ahead as normal?
- 15:41:16 [nigel]
- Gary: I can probably Chair it.
- 15:41:43 [atsushi]
- q+ do we plan long group meeting in solid date/time?
- 15:42:08 [nigel]
- Nigel: It doesn't seem that there's a huge amount for the agenda.
- 15:42:11 [nigel]
- ack at
- 15:42:29 [nigel]
- Atsushi: do we plan long group meeting in solid date/time?
- 15:42:36 [nigel]
- Nigel: During TPAC?
- 15:42:47 [nigel]
- Atsushi: yes. 3 weeks of proposed meetings.
- 15:42:49 [nigel]
- .. 1st joint.
- 15:42:53 [nigel]
- .. 2nd group meetings.
- 15:42:57 [nigel]
- .. 3rd breakouts
- 15:43:07 [nigel]
- .. Do we plan to have our group meeting during TPAC?
- 15:43:49 [nigel]
- Nigel: I would be in favour - I think there are topics that could warrant a longer session.
- 15:44:01 [nigel]
- Pierre: Everybody is going to get the same slots so unless we need a WG meeting we should
- 15:44:03 [nigel]
- .. avoid doing so.
- 15:45:27 [nigel]
- Nigel: I'm thinking about topics like IMSC future requirements, ADPT, TTML Live extensions
- 15:45:39 [nigel]
- .. etc. and that will need a lot of prep. I think we could use a longer session, but it needs
- 15:45:48 [nigel]
- .. prep time and it doesn't have to be in virtual TPAC, it could be later.
- 15:45:53 [nigel]
- Pierre: Exactly.
- 15:46:23 [nigel]
- Nigel: In answer, I think we quite likely won't meet, and if we do then it would likely be
- 15:46:25 [nigel]
- .. maximum one day.
- 15:46:38 [nigel]
- Atsushi: We need to complete the wiki form, so if we can fix that it would be a great help
- 15:46:39 [nigel]
- .. for me.
- 15:46:43 [nigel]
- Nigel: Understood!
- 15:47:47 [nigel]
- Topic: (AOB) Interaction between tts:writingMode and tts:direction on <p> w3c/ttml#1211
- 15:47:51 [nigel]
- github: https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/1211
- 15:49:09 [nigel]
- Nigel: One thing I note about this is Direction003 used to be in TTML tests and has moved
- 15:49:21 [nigel]
- .. to IMSC tests and that has confused a couple of people independently recently.
- 15:49:48 [nigel]
- .. Does anyone else feel that an explainer for Where to Find TTML Tests would be a useful document?
- 15:51:32 [nigel]
- Pierre: Looking at Glenn's comments, he thinks TTPE's presentation is wrong.
- 15:51:38 [nigel]
- Nigel: He thinks the reference render is wrong though.
- 15:53:17 [nigel]
- Pierre: [explains how the lines in the p all use the whole width so the layout direction - scribe failure]
- 15:53:26 [nigel]
- Nigel: Is textAlign used in the test?
- 15:53:38 [nigel]
- Pierre: It would be weird for textAlign to be affected by writingMode.
- 15:54:46 [nigel]
- .. I think we need an answer from Glenn.
- 15:56:11 [nigel]
- Nigel: How do you know the line areas cover the whole width? That seems unusual.
- 15:56:16 [nigel]
- Pierre: Exactly.
- 15:56:34 [nigel]
- Pierre: Maybe we need to get everyone around the table for that with examples.
- 15:58:01 [nigel]
- Nigel: I'm sure if we schedule this for a meeting and invite Glenn then we can gather him and
- 15:58:06 [nigel]
- .. anyone else interested.
- 15:58:20 [nigel]
- Andreas: I planned also to look into this issue so please keep me posted if you schedule a
- 15:58:23 [nigel]
- .. separate meeting.
- 15:58:42 [nigel]
- Nigel: My default here would be to use one of these TTWG weekly calls if possible.
- 15:59:26 [nigel]
- Nigel: Let's allow the conversation to continue on the issue thread, and convene a meeting
- 15:59:37 [nigel]
- .. perhaps in 2 weeks time, if there are outstanding questions.
- 15:59:46 [nigel]
- Pierre: Alright.
- 16:00:03 [nigel]
- SUMMARY: Continue discussions on the issue thread for the time being.
- 16:00:20 [nigel]
- Topic: Meeting close
- 16:00:58 [nigel]
- Nigel: The clock has just ticked over to the hour, and we've completed our agenda. I'm adjourning this meeting!
- 16:01:02 [nigel]
- rrsagent, make minutes v2
- 16:01:02 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/08/06-tt-minutes.html nigel
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- scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
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- zakim, end meeting
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- As of this point the attendees have been Nigel, Andreas, Atsushi, Gary, Mike, Pierre
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- RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
- 16:07:20 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/08/06-tt-minutes.html Zakim
- 16:07:23 [Zakim]
- I am happy to have been of service, nigel; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
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- Zakim has left #tt
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- rrsagent, excuse us
- 16:07:54 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items