14:12:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #idcg
14:12:01 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/07/23-idcg-irc
14:12:02 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #idcg
14:12:08 <koalie> meeting: ID CG meeting
14:12:11 <koalie> agenda: https://statamic.studio24.dev/
14:12:13 <agendabot> koalie, sorry, I did not recognize any agenda in https://statamic.studio24.dev/
14:12:14 <koalie> chair: Léonie
14:12:27 <koalie> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-idcg/2020Jul/0041.html
14:12:27 <agendabot> clear agenda
14:12:28 <agendabot> agenda+ Proposal to meet every two weeks.
14:12:28 <agendabot> agenda+ Feedback from the AC review.
14:12:28 <agendabot> agenda+ Actions updates.
14:13:36 <koalie> regrets: Julien_Tanay, Daniel_Applequist
14:13:44 <koalie> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:14:32 <koalie> -> https://www.w3.org/2020/07/16-idcg-minutes.html Previous (2020-07-16)
14:52:37 <tink> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
14:52:55 <tink> Meeting: ID CG weekly meeting
14:52:59 <tink> Chair: Léonie
14:53:00 <tzviya> tzviya has joined #idcg
14:53:03 <tink> rrsagent, make minutes
14:53:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/23-idcg-minutes.html tink
14:53:26 <tink> present+ Léonie (tink)
14:54:39 <tink> Regrets: Rhian Jones, Chris Wilson, Dan Appelquist
14:54:47 <tink> rssagent, make minutes
14:55:10 <koalie> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:55:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/23-idcg-minutes.html koalie
14:55:13 <tink> rrsagent, make minutes
14:55:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/23-idcg-minutes.html tink
14:55:15 <jeff> jeff has joined #idcg
14:56:57 <koalie> regrets+ Julien_Tanay
14:57:46 <wendyreid> wendyreid has joined #idcg
15:01:29 <jeff> Is the Zoom currently blocked, or is it a problem on my side?
15:01:56 <Judy> Judy has joined #idcg
15:02:20 <koalie> tink, several of us are seeing "The host has another meeting in progress." when we try to join this Zoom
15:03:02 <tink> Ah. That explains it.
15:03:14 <tink> Are you using the Zoom you created last week? If so, could you DM me the URL?
15:04:17 <koalie> https://us02web.zoom.us/j/88142632786?pwd=bUhCL1NPRjFZd2YrdmlrRlZuUjljQT09
15:04:36 <koalie> s|https://us02web.zoom.us/j/88142632786?pwd=bUhCL1NPRjFZd2YrdmlrRlZuUjljQT09||
15:05:05 <koalie> present+ Coralie
15:05:12 <tzviya> present+
15:06:10 <koalie> present+ Judy_Brewer, Wendy_Reid, Tzviya_Siegman, Vagner_Diniz, Tess_O-Connor, Jeff_Jaffe, Wendy_Seltzer
15:06:14 <koalie> scribenick: koalie
15:06:28 <koalie> Zakim, agenda?
15:06:28 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
15:06:28 <wendyreid> present+
15:06:29 <Zakim> 1. Proposal to meet every two weeks. [from agendabot]
15:06:29 <Zakim> 2. Feedback from the AC review. [from agendabot]
15:06:29 <Zakim> 3. Actions updates. [from agendabot]
15:06:33 <koalie> Zakim, take up item 1
15:06:33 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Proposal to meet every two weeks." taken up [from agendabot]
15:06:52 <koalie> Léonie: is everyone happy to experiment with Zoom's "raise hand"?
15:07:04 <koalie> Judy: note: some have expressed issues of accessibility
15:07:34 <koalie> ... happy to serve as backup for irc q+
15:07:59 <koalie> Léonie: option-Y on mac OS, @@
15:08:17 <koalie> ... the click "Raise Hand" is in the participants pane
15:09:44 <koalie> ====
15:09:55 <koalie> Léonie: proposal to meet every two weeks
15:10:01 <koalie> ... and find another time for this meeting
15:10:02 <vagner> vagner has joined #idcg
15:10:38 <wseltzer> +1
15:10:56 <koalie> Jeff: +1 to every other week at a different time.
15:11:01 <wendyreid> +1
15:11:10 <koalie> +1
15:11:12 <vagner> +1
15:11:21 <vagner> present+
15:11:46 <koalie> Tzviya: Thursdays are very packed. Every other week would be a great cadence for me
15:12:05 <koalie> Judy: I'm worried about what other time we land on (expecting survey)
15:12:16 <koalie> ... but this happens to be in my relatively open time
15:12:32 <koalie> ... the in-between week could be used by sub-groups to keep momentum
15:12:44 <koalie> Léonie: the way forward looks like: move to every other week
15:12:47 <koalie> ... I'll create a doodle
15:12:55 <koalie> ... for a different regular time
15:13:18 <koalie> Jeff: There's a large overlap between this group and the PWE CG which meets every other week
15:13:29 <koalie> ... I wonder if that time could be available for the other week
15:14:07 <koalie> [the PWE call is 2pm UTC on Thursdays]
15:14:17 <koalie> s/Thurs/Tues/
15:14:37 <koalie> [Léonie, Tzviya and Tess to take this offline to work out a combination]
15:15:18 <Barb_H> Barb_H has joined #IDCG
15:15:21 <koalie> Zakim, next item
15:15:21 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Feedback from the AC review." taken up [from agendabot]
15:15:29 <koalie> present+ Barbara_Hochgesang
15:15:39 <koalie> [Barb arrives]
15:15:55 <koalie> Léonie: without realizing it and intending it, we caused some upset
15:16:15 <koalie> ... when we sent the statement out, we the CG had been so focused on timeliness
15:16:21 <koalie> ... we just asked the AC to sign-off on it
15:16:40 <koalie> ... when the regular survey went out it included the regular options, including those to provide changes
15:16:56 <koalie> ... when somebody filed an issue, I closed the issue
15:17:03 <koalie> ... that upset the person, confused me
15:17:24 <koalie> ... an issue has been opened on the AB repo that AC have access too, saying it isn't good form for the W3C community
15:17:31 <koalie> ... we've acknowledged it was wronge
15:17:39 <koalie> ... we've explained to the AC that changes are welcome
15:17:52 <koalie> ... we'll take a look at those at the end of the review
15:18:03 <koalie> ... It's a necessary delay
15:18:22 <koalie> ... Thoughts, comments?
15:18:43 <koalie> Jeff: There has been at least one Formal Objection raised on the statement
15:19:07 <koalie> ... we have to wait till the survey closes as people may change their reviews
15:19:20 <koalie> ... it doesn't prevent us from reaching out to objectors and have conversations about it
15:19:28 <koalie> ... that objection was done in member space
15:20:03 <koalie> Judy: Does it make sense to briefly discuss the content of the objection?
15:20:11 <koalie> ... and make sure we have somebody for the dialogue?
15:21:07 <koalie> Léonie: Absolutely
15:21:43 <koalie> ... given our respective roles, and bing careful
15:22:04 <koalie> Wendy: I agree with Judy
15:22:07 <wseltzer> s/bing/being/
15:22:45 <koalie> ... Any comments, and most have been constructive
15:22:57 <koalie> s/Any/Many/
15:23:10 <koalie> ... have fallen into the bucket of what I at least expected to get
15:23:25 <koalie> ... perhaps there's a document we could put together with our talking points
15:23:42 <koalie> ... that explain where we're coming from, and why we worded it the way we did
15:23:46 <Barb_H> +q
15:23:50 <koalie> s/explain/explaines/
15:24:37 <koalie> s/explaines/explains/
15:25:20 <koalie> Coralie: I saw a comment probably in the AB repo, about not being judge and party and that for me raised the question on who can assess the AC review given I'm co-chair of this group, I've contributed to writing the statement, and I'm on W3C management
15:25:41 <koalie> Léonie: @@
15:25:43 <koalie> ack B
15:26:06 <koalie> Barb: my participant view:
15:26:13 <koalie> ... separate the goal of the statement
15:26:25 <koalie> ... it was around improving or extending the inclusion and diversity
15:26:30 <koalie> ... that's the higher level
15:26:49 <koalie> ... what ends up happening is that it gets bogged down on a word, a comma, that sort of aspects
15:27:08 <koalie> ... so my worry is to "miss the forest"
15:27:31 <koalie> ... Is there some way that we could ge the AC to agree that the theme is doing more outreach
15:27:37 <koalie> ... and now, let's improve the statement
15:27:41 <koalie> Léonie: It's sage advice
15:27:57 <koalie> ... in the W3C community we're especially good at picking at the leaves
15:28:31 <koalie> Jeff: To address Coralie's question
15:28:44 <koalie> ... W3C management will assess the results of the survey
15:28:48 <koalie> ... by appointing someone to do that
15:28:57 <koalie> ... Coralie's point may be true
15:29:14 <koalie> ... I'm confident W3M can find someone in W3M who can fairly resolve any suggestion and remaining objections
15:29:37 <koalie> ... To Léonie's point, the leadership of the IDCG if not the entire IDCG will be involved in that
15:30:00 <koalie> ... there may be small editorial changes that the IDCG agrees are good, if we have more major changes we may have another review cycle
15:30:09 <koalie> ... The Director also has the power to overrule objections
15:30:32 <koalie> ... if objections are made and the director or his delegate tries to deal with the objections and finds there is no consensus,
15:30:41 <koalie> ... not every objector gets to write the statement
15:30:47 <koalie> ... in the end we're looking for consensus
15:31:21 <koalie> Judy: With regard to a charter in review, we rely on a staff person who has subject matter expertise
15:31:29 <koalie> ... they have work time allocated for that
15:31:43 <koalie> ... and they're responsible for handling the comments
15:32:08 <koalie> ... so speaking of doing a "fair" assessment
15:32:26 <koalie> ... and hearing someone involved in the process may not be involved is surprising
15:32:30 <koalie> Léonie: Thank you
15:32:33 <koalie> ... Back to Wendy's point
15:32:47 <koalie> ... it may be worth trying to formulate message points
15:32:55 <koalie> ... anyone able to have a look?
15:33:02 <koalie> Wendy: I can do it
15:33:13 <koalie> [Thanks WendyR!]
15:33:21 <koalie> Léonie: it will come in handy, so thank you!
15:33:24 <koalie> q?
15:33:31 <koalie> Zakim, close this item
15:33:31 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
15:33:32 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:33:32 <Zakim> 3. Actions updates. [from agendabot]
15:33:57 <koalie> Léonie: Any update? any question for discussion?
15:34:07 <koalie> Judy: I had worked on the outreach and messaging area
15:34:12 <koalie> ... happy to provide an update on that
15:34:18 <koalie> ... and I have a few questions for the group
15:34:50 <koalie> Léonie: I have a very quick update on Office Hourse
15:34:53 <koalie> ... anyone else?
15:34:59 <koalie> ====
15:35:04 <Judy> https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/Outreach-and-Messaging
15:35:08 <koalie> Sub-topic: Outreach and Messaging
15:35:21 <koalie> Judy: I now have edit access to the ID CG GH
15:35:31 <koalie> ... I've seeded some edits
15:35:39 <koalie> ... in a sub-page for outreach and messaging
15:35:50 <koalie> ... this is in parallel to the "welcoming" sub-group
15:36:24 <koalie> ... I consider both "outreach" and "messaging" to be linked
15:37:05 <koalie> ... I've asked people who expressed interest, and I may have overlooked someone
15:37:14 <koalie> ... so let me know after you see what's here!
15:37:16 <koalie> ===
15:37:23 <koalie> Judy: I wanted to point out a few things
15:37:25 <wseltzer> q+ on a different topic, in ProcessCG
15:37:39 <koalie> https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/Outreach-and-Messaging#volunteers-for-outreach-andor-messaging-activities
15:38:14 <Barb_H> +q
15:38:40 <koalie> Judy: There's a draft goal statement
15:38:45 <koalie> ... and a list of sub-actions
15:38:58 <koalie> ... I went through our issues tagged with outreach and messaging
15:39:14 <koalie> ... and went back to the categorization I had suggested while we were writing the statement
15:39:26 <koalie> ... right now there's a list of 10 or so different actions that may relate to this area
15:39:33 <koalie> ... some of them have a possible person assigned
15:39:50 <koalie> ... the CG may not want to look at this at all if this is too granular
15:39:58 <koalie> ... or there may be missing sub-actions
15:40:02 <koalie> ... I welcome feedback
15:40:23 <Judy_> Judy_ has joined #idcg
15:40:32 <koalie> ack b
15:41:33 <koalie> Barb: I agree, the welcoming and outreach are synergized
15:41:46 <koalie> ... if the two leads could figure out how to do driver / drafter
15:41:49 <koalie> ... that would be great
15:42:05 <koalie> ... I do want to emphasize another area I participate in: the academic engineering program
15:42:11 <koalie> ... my school follows this closely
15:42:25 <koalie> ... such programs across the world have tried to increase diversity
15:42:58 <koalie> ... I want to encourage that this has had a huge impact
15:43:20 <koalie> Tzviya: I very much agree with what you're saying
15:43:30 <koalie> ... you're one of the people working on how to make W3C more welcoming
15:43:37 <koalie> ... we need to work out to add "and inclusive"
15:44:08 <koalie> ... it needs to go far beyond than welcome emails
15:44:14 <koalie> ... we intend to jointly meet at TPAC
15:44:38 <koalie> ... we need to find a way to make it clear we're all welcome
15:45:04 <koalie> Judy: I've just updated the wiki page to reflect Barb's 2 suggestions in the form of two sub-actions
15:45:07 <Judy_> [JB: updated https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/Outreach-and-Messaging]
15:45:14 <koalie> https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/Outreach-and-Messaging#idcg-outreach-and-messaging-potential-sub-actions-andor-related-actions-in-other-areas-of-idcg-work
15:45:37 <koalie> Judy: Tzviya used "belonging"
15:46:02 <koalie> ... might the "welcoming" area be willing to turn their name into "welcoming and belonging"
15:46:14 <koalie> ... Another point
15:46:31 <koalie> ... There is a meta level
15:46:36 <koalie> ... reading lists, discussions
15:46:56 <koalie> ... does it make sense to build a "meta level" for "learning / reading lists"?
15:47:18 <vagner> q+ to say goals and metrics plus homework
15:47:23 <koalie> ... The office hours does not have a home
15:47:37 <koalie> ... this could be cross linked from other areas
15:47:38 <koalie> ack v
15:47:38 <Zakim> vagner, you wanted to say goals and metrics plus homework
15:48:18 <koalie> Vagner: Suggestion for every group which work on different types of actions
15:48:29 <koalie> ... we need to add in our topics "goals and metrics"
15:48:41 <koalie> ... so we can assess if we're reaching what we're trying to do in this community group
15:48:49 <koalie> ... generally speaking the tasks are very general
15:49:03 <koalie> ... it's not very easy to see what kind of results we'll be aiming for
15:49:25 <koalie> ... I suggest to establish some goals and metrics for the future
15:49:32 <koalie> ... to determine success of the objectives
15:49:42 <koalie> ... The other thing I wanted to talk about is homework
15:49:52 <koalie> ... if you want to promote diversity, we have homework to do
15:50:24 <koalie> ... including invite black people, different genders, to talk at our conference, in our meetings, in our CGs
15:50:37 <koalie> ... we also have to hire black people or different genders into W3C
15:50:46 <Judy_> q+ to suggest that our the meta-level "continuous improvement" item could have sub-actions on metrics and progress
15:50:51 <koalie> ... that's our homework to show that we are really working
15:51:02 <koalie> Léonie: very good idea, Metrics
15:51:16 <koalie> ... Thanks for your suggestions on how we can invite more people
15:51:22 <koalie> ... these are important things too
15:51:24 <koalie> ack j
15:51:24 <Zakim> Judy_, you wanted to suggest that our the meta-level "continuous improvement" item could have sub-actions on metrics and progress
15:51:53 <Judy_> q+ to suggest that our the meta-level "continuous improvement" item could have sub-actions on metrics and progress, and also to brainstorm on "homework"
15:52:27 <koalie> Judy: Vagner, "continuous improvement" could include metrics and progress
15:52:35 <koalie> ... Jeff has an annual report
15:52:52 <koalie> ... if I did a sub-page for that, would you, Vagner, volunteer to help on that?
15:53:05 <koalie> [Vagner nods]
15:53:15 <koalie> ====
15:53:26 <koalie> Léonie: quick update on the Open Office Hours
15:53:37 <koalie> ... I'll get in touch directly with a few of the listed people
15:53:53 <koalie> ... Then we need to determine how and where to promote the availability of volunteers
15:53:56 <koalie> q+
15:54:18 <Judy_> ack J
15:54:18 <Zakim> Judy_, you wanted to suggest that our the meta-level "continuous improvement" item could have sub-actions on metrics and progress, and also to brainstorm on "homework"
15:54:23 <koalie> ack ws
15:54:23 <Zakim> wseltzer, you wanted to comment on a different topic, in ProcessCG
15:54:49 <koalie> WendyS: I wanted to invite input from this group on a question that's been on the process community group issues list around recording of meetings
15:54:55 <koalie> ... there's been some heate discussion there
15:55:29 <koalie> ... a commenter remarked she found recording would be particularly difficult for her as a woman and it would be non-inclusive if W3C were to record (audio/video) its meetings
15:55:39 <koalie> ... if there's input from this group, that is welcome
15:55:59 <koalie> -> https://github.com/w3c/w3process/issues/334  Recording of meetings #334
15:56:25 <koalie> Tess: Some W3C WGs record meetings as a matter of course
15:56:28 <koalie> ... WebPerf does
15:58:06 <koalie> Coralie: after the AC review on the BLM statement, I'll want this group's input on how to promote it
15:58:39 <koalie> Tzviya: That commenter on the Process GH issue comment is right
15:58:53 <koalie> ... we have people who are not comfortable with being recorded
15:59:01 <koalie> ... and we need to take this into consideration
16:00:24 <koalie> Judy: Colleagues in China have told me they can't sometimes put their thoughts in e-mail, so recording is [worse]
16:00:27 <koalie> [adjourned]
16:00:36 <koalie> rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
16:00:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/23-idcg-minutes.html koalie
16:00:45 <vagner> vagner has left #idcg
16:01:03 <Judy_> s/[worse]/might be even worse; and also if recordings are being used in place of minutes, need to have captions, maybe asr ok for that, depends.../
16:01:25 <koalie> rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
16:01:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/23-idcg-minutes.html koalie
16:36:09 <koalie> i|Léonie: quick |Sub-Topic: Open Office Hours|
16:37:19 <koalie> i|WendyS: I wanted|Sub-Topic: Process issue around "video/audio recording of w3c meetings"|
16:37:40 <koalie> rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
16:37:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/23-idcg-minutes.html koalie
16:39:02 <koalie> i|Judy: I had worked|Topic: Actions updates|
16:39:05 <koalie> rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
16:39:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/23-idcg-minutes.html koalie
16:39:33 <koalie> s|koalie, sorry, I did not recognize any agenda in https://‌statamic.studio24.dev/||
16:39:42 <koalie> s|rssagent, make minutes||
16:39:44 <koalie> rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
16:39:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/23-idcg-minutes.html koalie
16:41:34 <koalie> s|S, @@|S, alt+Y on Windows, [see more shortcuts in <https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/205683899-Hot-Keys-and-Keyboard-Shortcuts-for-Zoom>]|
16:41:37 <koalie> rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
16:41:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/23-idcg-minutes.html koalie
16:42:21 <koalie> s/ click "Raise Hand"/"Raise Hand" button/
16:43:12 <koalie> s/access too/access to/
16:43:22 <koalie> s/wronge/wrong/
16:44:05 <koalie> s/Wendy: I agree with Judy/WendyR: I agree with Judy/
16:46:10 <koalie> s/Wendy: I can do it/WendyR: I can do it/
16:46:55 <koalie> s/tagged with/labelled/
16:49:36 <koalie> s/====//G
16:50:30 <koalie> rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
16:50:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/23-idcg-minutes.html koalie
16:50:54 <koalie> RRSAgent, bye
16:50:54 <RRSAgent> I see no action items