15:05:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #idcg
15:05:09 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/07/16-idcg-irc
15:05:10 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #idcg
15:05:37 <koalie> present: Judy, Dan, Tzviya, chaals, Coralie, wseltzer, amy
15:05:45 <dka_> present+ Dan Appelquist
15:05:52 <chaals> scribe: chaals
15:06:01 <koalie> present+ Marisa
15:06:03 <marisa> marisa has joined #idcg
15:06:19 <marisa> marisa has joined #idcg
15:06:23 <marisa> present+
15:06:30 <chaals> Chair: Coralie
15:06:43 <cwilso> present+
15:06:49 <chaals> zakim, agenda?
15:06:49 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
15:06:56 <koalie> agenda+ Meeting during virtual TPAC
15:07:01 <jeff__> present+
15:07:03 <koalie> agenda+ Results of the vote about the statement
15:07:11 <koalie> agenda+ Progress on action issues
15:07:19 <koalie> regrets: Leonie
15:09:16 <koalie> present+ cwilso, annette
15:09:21 <chaals> zakim, take up next agendum
15:09:21 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Meeting during virtual TPAC" taken up [from koalie]
15:10:00 <chaals> Koalie: [introduces agenda]
15:10:20 <chaals> [No additions proposed]
15:10:22 <koalie> Zakim, take up item 1
15:10:22 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Meeting during virtual TPAC" taken up [from koalie]
15:10:51 <jeff__> q+
15:10:55 <Judy> q+
15:10:55 <koalie> ack Jeff
15:11:07 <chaals> Koalie: TPAC is virtual this year. Do we have enough material to want to organise a meeting, and should we try to join that with Positive Work Environment CG?
15:11:09 <annette_g> annette_g has joined #idcg
15:11:59 <koalie> ack next
15:12:02 <dka_> +1 to having a meeting
15:12:14 <chaals> Jeff: Physical TPAC helps re-energise community. It is harder in a virtual meeting but I think there is value in holding a meeting to remind people that we need more involvement to get more work done. So rather than a meeting it should be about getting people to show up and re-commit.
15:12:43 <amy> +1 to having a meeting
15:12:59 <tzviya> q+
15:13:02 <chaals> Judy: Few ways to take advantage of TPAC. I like the idea of getting the word out more. We can do planning maybe in conjunction with PWE CG, or a larger get-together for people who want to check out the topic and learn more...
15:13:08 <chaals> q+ to oppose meeting.
15:13:24 <chaals> … not fussed how it turns out exactly, maybe multiple would be good.
15:13:25 <koalie> ack next
15:14:15 <chaals> Tzviya: I think it is an opportunity for outreach, a lot of people are not aware of what we are doing. Would like to have joint meeting with PWE CG. We get large turnouts and people talk about concerns, wil be reassuring fopr people to hear we are doing something.
15:14:22 <koalie> ack next
15:14:23 <Zakim> chaals, you wanted to oppose meeting.
15:14:26 <melanierichards> present+
15:14:27 <dka_> q+
15:14:30 <koalie> scribe+
15:14:37 <jeff__> Chaals: I oppose a meeting
15:14:41 <jeff__> scribe+
15:14:46 <koalie> scribe-
15:14:54 <jeff__> ... telling people we are doing something is useful
15:15:03 <jeff__> ... Tzviya's point is a good point
15:15:14 <jeff__> ... but virtual meetings have more pressure on time
15:15:23 <jeff__> ... physical meetings can negotiate time better
15:15:26 <koalie> present+ Barb
15:15:30 <jeff__> ... more inclusive
15:15:44 <jeff__> ... competing harder with what TPAC is for
15:15:50 <jeff__> ... x-group meetings
15:16:00 <jeff__> ... in a sense inclusion and diversity is x-group
15:16:04 <jeff__> ... so it fits
15:16:06 <jeff__> ... it is important
15:16:14 <jeff__> ... nervous about getting people's time.
15:16:29 <BarbH> BarbH has joined #idcg
15:16:29 <jeff__> ... if people can't do work because they are busy that's a problem too
15:16:30 <koalie> q?
15:16:34 <koalie> q+
15:16:38 <koalie> ack next
15:17:39 <chaals> Dan: Support having something, maybe we can do something more than just engage with existing W3C community, and use this to bring in a wider group to talk about how W3C can be more welcoming to participation from people we don't normally have.at the event.
15:18:01 <koalie> ack me
15:18:06 <chaals> … reiterating what we are doing here is not so interesting compared to hearing from new voices.
15:18:26 <chaals> Koalie: Chaals would you be more comfortable if we went in Dan's proposed direction or organising a breakout instead?
15:18:29 <chaals> chaals: yes and yes
15:18:35 <koalie> q?
15:18:47 <koalie> subtopic: joint meeting with PWE CG
15:19:11 <chaals> Koalie: Tzviya, Judy expressed some support for joint meeting. Should we find time to do that?
15:19:16 <BarbH> +1
15:19:19 <amy> +1 to a joint meeting because the topics/areas overlap
15:19:20 <chaals> Tzviya, That would be great.
15:19:28 <dka_> +1 to a joint meeting
15:19:29 <chaals> +1 to joint meeting if we are meeting.
15:19:29 <koalie> <koalie> +1
15:19:31 <annette_g> +1, amount of time depending on need
15:19:32 <koalie> q?
15:19:40 <wendyreid> +1
15:19:44 <chaals> Koalie: Anything else on this topic?
15:19:51 <koalie> Zakim, close this item
15:19:51 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
15:19:52 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:19:52 <Zakim> 2. Results of the vote about the statement [from koalie]
15:19:55 <koalie> Zakim, next item
15:19:55 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Results of the vote about the statement" taken up [from koalie]
15:20:10 <chaals> JB: +1 (put an IRC comment elsewhere…)
15:20:15 <chaals> Koalie: How did tey react?
15:20:23 <koalie> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/internal-idcg/2020Jul/0080.html
15:20:25 <Judy> +1 to a joint planning meeting between PWE and IDCG CGs
15:21:03 <chaals> Koalie: Tallied numbers, the revised statement proposal referred above has all support and no objection, seems like we have a statement.
15:22:02 <chaals> Koalie: W3M thinks that statement is worth supporting in this forum, was going to advise W3C AC about this.
15:22:12 <jeff__> q+ to update on the AB discussion
15:22:23 <chaals> … we aim to put this in front of AC for review, and if there is support we would make the statement formally on behalf of W3C.
15:22:40 <koalie> ack jeff
15:22:40 <Zakim> jeff__, you wanted to update on the AB discussion
15:23:39 <chaals> Jeff: Update to the AB took place, the AB was quietly supportive, and have also suggested that review periods should revert to 4 weeks now from the temporary 6 weeks we had been using.
15:23:50 <koalie> q?
15:23:55 <chaals> s/review periods/AC review time/
15:24:23 <jeff__> q+
15:24:27 <koalie> ack jeff
15:24:30 <chaals> Koalie: We have a statement, next step is to start a review that we can do on Monday, so then 4 weeks and we can assess the results of that review and W3C will report on that here then.
15:25:26 <chaals> Jeff: There has now been a post on IDCG who characterised the statement as paternalistic. This came in after review period, but it would be prudent for a chair to respond.
15:25:33 <wendyreid> q+
15:25:37 <koalie> ack next
15:27:11 <dka_> q+
15:27:12 <chaals> Wendy: I think the criticism from Emmanuelle is fair, and will be repeated. Maybe something we need to include is to express the intention that we want to respond to today's issues, keeping an eye on our activity. to make sure we are supportive of a community that right now we think is looking for statements of support.
15:27:13 <amy> I would caution to use some words like "minorities" for complex reasons. I know mostly it's understood in a positive way but it can be co-opted by some bad faith actors too
15:27:21 <koalie> ack next
15:27:40 <Judy> q+
15:27:46 <chaals> Dan: The paragraph Emanuelle suggested we delete is a key paragraphg and do not support deleting it.
15:27:49 <koalie> ack judy
15:27:51 <amy> +1 to dan's point (I do not support deleting this paragraph)
15:28:00 <wseltzer> s/Wendy:/WendyReid:/
15:28:07 <wendyreid> +1 to Dan
15:28:19 <koalie> regrets+ Emmanuelle
15:28:52 <wseltzer> [I support sending the statement for review as-is]
15:29:02 <wseltzer> [including the key sentence]
15:29:10 <chaals> Judy: Agree with Dan that I wouldn't want to remove the paragraph, but wonder, if Wendy thinks we will get more comments along the same lines, whether there is a way we can resolve it without doing a lot of wordsmithing here.
15:29:12 <koalie> <koalie> +1 to Dan
15:29:45 <chaals> Wendy: Think the response veers into the "but all lives matters" responses that we should expect to get.
15:30:18 <marisa> q+
15:30:22 <koalie> ack mext
15:30:22 <chaals> …We are not targeting a particular group to the exclusion of others - colourblindness is not enough, as WendyS says. But we will get more of this.
15:30:37 <chaals> s/Wendy/WendyR
15:30:58 <tzviya> q+
15:31:05 <koalie> ack next
15:31:30 <koalie> ack next
15:31:40 <chaals> marisa: Don't think we need to take on a response to things that feel like " but all lives matter"… The goal here is to make a timely statement in response to a partiucular question (DO black lives matter? Yes), not a specific privleging of one group over all others
15:31:47 <amy> it's a great point, and maybe a response to Emmanuel, that this is about a specific time/context not a general manifesto
15:31:49 <chaals> Koalie: Yes we need to explain that
15:31:55 <jeff__> q+
15:32:06 <chaals> Tzviya, we will need to do that, expecially in coutnries where BLM is not as prominent
15:32:44 <chaals> … Where this is daily news it will have different resonance to that people have in countries where this is't the big news item.
15:33:01 <koalie> ack next
15:33:05 <chaals> .. We will need to craft a careful explanation of why this statement today.
15:33:21 <chaals> Jeff:  Agree we should cover this in a cover letter, carefully drafted.
15:33:57 <chaals> … A downside is that we could call more attention to the issue and create a larger backlash. Caution...
15:33:57 <koalie> q?
15:34:06 <annette_g> +1 to Jeff
15:34:08 <koalie> Zakim, close this item
15:34:08 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
15:34:09 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:34:09 <Zakim> 3. Progress on action issues [from koalie]
15:34:11 <koalie> Zakim, next item
15:34:11 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Progress on action issues" taken up [from koalie]
15:35:09 <Judy> q+
15:35:32 <chaals> Koalie: Léonie took everything we discussed and raised github issues, adding some assignees. I have understood that we can bridge the W3C profiles with Github - if your github handle is linked to your profile that helps us manage more effectively and give you proper access.
15:35:55 <chaals> Judy: Followed the instructions but I am apparently still blocked from creating sub-pages on the wiki...
15:36:05 <Judy> ack j
15:36:11 <koalie> q+ Judy
15:36:12 <koalie> https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+no%3Aassignee
15:36:46 <chaals> Koalie: Please look at issues without assignees, so you can volunteer for something now if you would like to...
15:37:18 <chaals> Judy: When Léonie made issues she preserved the info in the original info includng additional people interested in helping, not just "lead" - some of that seems to have disappeared now :(
15:37:26 <jeff__> [I volunteer for issue #9]
15:38:12 <chaals> Koalie: If you want to sign up for something please speak up, and I hope we manage to get the lost info back too]
15:38:24 <annette_g> I volunteer to help with issue 16
15:38:30 <amy>  I am happy to help add to issue #17 as I did some separate research on that
15:38:52 <chaals> [I volunteer for #9 IE waiver, and #15 terminology]
15:39:11 <chaals> Koalie: Are the issues Judy raised from our actions, or broader?
15:39:37 <tzviya> i vounteer on 16, reading
15:39:51 <chaals> … issue 12 establish partnerships has nobody attached...
15:40:02 <marisa> offer to help with #17
15:40:15 <dka_> volunteering for mentoring issue
15:40:53 <koalie> ack j
15:41:01 <chaals> Koalie: Issue #13 promote discussions?
15:41:29 <wendyreid> [I'll volunteer for 13!]
15:41:36 <melanierichards> I can volunteer to help with #13
15:41:51 <melanierichards> GH username: melanierichards
15:41:56 <chaals> Judy: I suggested a meta description of actions that went into our statement. Promoting discussions could fit under learning or outreach, I am interested in helping either way. I am happy to do coordination on outreach as a blanket area.
15:42:08 <chaals> … I think Vagner and maybe Barbara were interested in this too.
15:42:18 <koalie> present+ Joey
15:42:19 <marisa> offer to help with #22
15:42:24 <BarbH> Yes I am interested in Outreach and Welcoming
15:42:37 <annette_g> I was volunteering for the reading list
15:42:48 <chaals> Koalie: Joey, thank you for joining.
15:42:57 <chaals> [Joey can help in issue 15 review terminology]
15:43:06 <chaals> Koalie: So have wee now covered all of them?
15:43:06 <koalie> https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+
15:43:10 <Judy> Annette, here is where the reading list work is happening: https://github.com/w3c/PWETF/blob/master/ReferencesAndResources.md
15:43:17 <amy> amyvdh
15:43:43 <jeff__> q+
15:43:57 <koalie> ack jeff
15:44:05 <koalie> q+ Judy
15:44:19 <chaals> Jeff: curious if there is an update on how  much money the diversity fund has raised so far
15:44:54 <chaals> @@; Have we put out call for donations?
15:45:04 <chaals> Koalie: Yes, most recently when we opened TPAC registration.
15:46:09 <chaals> … We have pledges of about 12k + W3C's 5k
15:46:11 <Judy> q+ to give an update with Tzviya on Issue #16, Curate Reading Lists, and to request additions on some kinds of resouces
15:46:17 <chaals> Jeff: Good.
15:46:30 <koalie> ack next
15:46:31 <Judy> Issue #16: https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/16
15:46:32 <Zakim> Judy, you wanted to give an update with Tzviya on Issue #16, Curate Reading Lists, and to request additions on some kinds of resouces
15:46:46 <koalie> -> https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/16 Curate reading lists #16
15:47:11 <tzviya> https://github.com/w3c/PWETF/blob/master/ReferencesAndResources.md
15:47:20 <chaals> Judy: On issue 16 curating a reading list Tzviya and I have been organising, populating race and tech links of various kinds.
15:48:09 <chaals> … got interested because of the ERB/EAB discussion trying to find references on that. Looked for a model statement, found some references talking about diversity on organisational boards.
15:48:20 <jeff__> q?
15:48:21 <tzviya> q+
15:48:22 <jeff__> q+
15:48:54 <jeff__> q-
15:49:16 <chaals> … Conc ept of colourism came up as a global issue related to Black Lives Matter. Looking for good non-US articles / research on it. Invite people especially who have non US-centric reference collections to add references
15:49:18 <koalie> ack next
15:49:31 <chaals> s/on cept/oncept/
15:50:24 <koalie> q?
15:50:36 <chaals> tzviya: This came from the Code of Conduct work, leaving in references related to that as we build up more diverse linking. I was adding stuff about sexual assault and sexual harassment. If you want feedback on whether something is useful, please ask, but also please feel free to just add stuff you think is relevant.
15:50:39 <amy> i wonder if we want to reach out to our team and colleagues in South Asia about issues kind of related to colorism. i was just reading about issues in Silicon Valley about bias around caste
15:50:44 <wendyreid> q+
15:50:55 <koalie> ack wen
15:51:18 <koalie> -> https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/8  Extend the diversity fundExtend the diversity fund #8
15:51:20 <amy> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/opinion/caste-cisco-indian-americans-discrimination.html
15:51:29 <chaals> WendyR: Diversity fund issue - I believe we have outlined what we want the fund to cover. Is next thing to open applications?
15:51:48 <chaals> … What's the next step to get that sent out so we can get submissions.
15:51:58 <dka_> q+ meta issue: can we close this issue in that case?
15:52:17 <dka_> q+ meta issue - can we close that issue in that case?
15:52:21 <dka_> q+
15:52:39 <chaals> Koalie: I think that is my action item, and in a month will be in a better position to know how much there is in the fund. When I asked for sponsorship I said we would use the same framework as last year - mid August I will create application form, working in this forum for feedback.
15:52:54 <koalie> ack dk
15:52:55 <JoeyS> JoeyS has joined #idcg
15:53:02 <chaals> WendyR: Happy to help...
15:53:19 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/8
15:53:51 <chaals> Dan: Can we then close that issue, or are we going to keep using it to track what we are doing. I.e. do we mark it to say where it is in progress, do we close it now because we have sorted it for now, …? Meta process question
15:54:08 <chaals> Koalie: Yeah… think we can close it.
15:54:42 <chaals> Dan: There is more work to do still. We could label a proposed closure step. Maybe we should talk about this with Léonie.
15:55:02 <koalie> q?
15:55:02 <chaals> Koalie: Let's defer the discussion until Léonie is available.
15:55:16 <Judy> q+
15:55:22 <koalie> ack next
15:55:49 <chaals> Judy: Can yiou sort issues alphabetically or by number?
15:56:02 <chaals> … on partnership I am interested.
15:56:11 <tzviya> q+
15:56:27 <chaals> … started doing some outreach.
15:57:23 <chaals> … There are things mapping against the meta categories, that is what the home page of the wiki uses for organisation. Going to try to map that too.
15:57:49 <chaals> … Issue 10, outreach, I will make a subpage and look for people who expressed interest.
15:57:57 <koalie> q?
15:58:01 <koalie> ack next
15:58:14 <chaals> Tzviya: I cannot add Judy, me or Joey as assignees at the moment.
15:58:29 <chaals> s/me/Amy
15:58:29 <tzviya> s/me/Amy
15:58:40 <chaals> Koalie: I will chase this up with systems team
15:58:46 <JoeyS> My github is JGSal does that help?
15:59:08 <JoeyS> *JoGSal
15:59:52 <amy> thanks Coralie!
16:00:04 <koalie> thanks chaals for scribing
16:00:09 <koalie> and all for attending
16:00:12 <koalie> rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
16:00:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/16-idcg-minutes.html koalie
16:05:35 <amy> i assigned myself to issue 17
16:11:08 <koalie> RRSAgent, make logs public
17:06:50 <jeff_> jeff_ has joined #idcg
17:15:01 <jeff> jeff has joined #idcg
18:05:03 <koalie> meeting: ID CG weekly meeting
18:05:43 <koalie> s/Koalie/koalie/G
18:06:49 <koalie> i|Chaals: I oppose|scribenick: jeff__|
18:07:04 <koalie> i|Dan: Support|scribenick: chaals|
18:07:38 <koalie> s/Tzviya, That /Tzviya: That /
18:07:55 <koalie> s/+1 to joint meeting if we/<chaals> +1 to joint meeting if we/
18:08:23 <koalie> s/<koalie> +1/+1/
18:09:05 <koalie> s/AC about/AB about/
18:10:21 <koalie> s/phg/ph/
18:10:36 <koalie> s/<koalie> +1/+1/G
18:11:46 <koalie> s/Wendy: Think the/WendyR: Think the/
18:11:53 <koalie> s/WendyRS/WendyS/
18:13:36 <koalie> s/privleging/privileging/
18:13:47 <koalie> s/Emmanuel/Emmanuellle/
18:14:13 <koalie> s/Tzviya, we will need/Tzviya: we will need/
18:14:39 <koalie> s/s't/sn't/
18:15:38 <koalie> s/dng/ding/
18:15:59 <koalie> s/I volunteer for issue #9/<chaals> I volunteer for issue #9/
18:16:15 <koalie> s/too]/too/
18:16:30 <koalie> s/I volunteer for issue #9/<chaals> I volunteer for issue #9/G
18:17:44 <koalie> s/wee/we/
18:18:12 <koalie> s/@@; Have we /WendyR: Have we/
18:18:37 <koalie> s/+ W3C's/including W3C's/
18:19:15 <koalie> s/Conc ept /Concept /
18:19:26 <koalie> s|s/on cept/oncept/||
18:22:35 <koalie> s/yiou/you/
18:23:14 <koalie> s/moAmynt/moment/
18:23:26 <koalie> rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
18:23:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/16-idcg-minutes.html koalie
18:26:22 <koalie> RRSAgent, bye
18:26:22 <RRSAgent> I see no action items