23:58:58 RRSAgent has joined #pbg 23:58:58 logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/07/07-pbg-irc 23:59:00 RRSAgent, make logs Public 23:59:01 Meeting: Publishing Business Group 23:59:26 ShinyaTakami has joined #pbg 23:59:31 present+ Junichi_Yoshii, Kamata, Yanni_Chang, Daihei 23:59:54 present+ 23:59:55 Daihei has joined #pbg 23:59:56 present+ 00:00:02 present+ 00:00:04 present+ Wendy_Reid 00:00:17 adoll has joined #pbg 00:00:31 present+ 00:00:46 present+ Jeff_Xu 00:01:12 wendyreid has joined #pbg 00:01:20 present+ 00:01:29 present+Angela_Doll 00:04:37 scribe+ 00:04:54 chair: Daihei_Shiohama 00:05:11 jkamata has joined #pbg 00:05:24 topic: State of Publishing Community Group 00:05:34 Jeff_Xu: hi everyone 00:05:50 ... I am with Rakuten Kobo 00:06:02 ... I am a software developer, particularly on text layout 00:06:09 ... to improve the reading app experience 00:06:23 ... I am co-chair of the Publishing Community Group, with Mateus 00:06:29 ... we started the middle of last year 00:06:44 ... it took a long time to get started 00:06:58 ... we're getting excited; we're seeing many new people join the CG 00:07:17 ... we want to talk about a new charter 00:07:41 melaniebw has joined #pbg 00:07:52 ... one reason I joined the CG is that we found many issues where we could work with browser vendors to improve digital publishing 00:07:59 ... as a developer, I am interested in that 00:08:13 ... we're thinking one direction of the CG could be to incubate good practice 00:08:29 ... and connecting web browser vendor with publishing 00:08:53 ... to see how to make better layout and richer user features than with physical books 00:09:22 ... we also want ideas from the CG participants 00:09:45 ... and connect more widely beyond digital books 00:10:11 ... right now we haven't yet restarted our meetings 00:10:22 ... our first goal, very soon, is to start meeting again 00:10:38 ... and hear from the CG members what directions we might go 00:10:45 present+ 00:10:51 q+ 00:11:12 MURATA has joined #pbg 00:11:15 Daihei: great idea for the Publishing CG to incubate new features 00:11:17 present+ 00:11:19 ... new developments 00:11:24 ... we love to exchange information 00:11:57 ... we would like to invite you and Mateus to attend the BG meetings on occasion to talk about the CG materials 00:12:34 ... are there topics from the others here that you would like to bring to Jeff and Mateus' attention? 00:12:39 q+ 00:13:01 Jeff: thanks; this is a really good chance for the CG and BG to collaborate more 00:13:19 ... the CG started with a very wide set of directions 00:13:31 ack Daihei 00:13:34 ShinyaTakami: as you know, Japanese text layout is very complicated 00:13:34 ack ShinyaTakami 00:13:42 ... and fixed layout is very popular 00:13:48 ... the amount of FXL is huge 00:13:56 ... is the CG talking about FXL? 00:14:20 Jeff: we haven't yet started discussion but I think fixed layout and manga are very important discussions 00:14:44 ... when the reading system knows a book is manga we can lay it out very quickly 00:15:07 ... we see it as a technical benefit to be able to distinguish FXL from manga 00:15:17 ... I would like to bring this up in the CG very soon 00:15:53 ... Japanese vertical text layout have a very large space in my mind 00:16:22 ... we could even create task forces within the CG if people would like 00:16:42 Daihei: Jeff and Shinya used to work together in Rakuten's Tokyo office! 00:17:05 topic: EPUB 3 WG charter 00:17:31 Wendy: the charter is finalized and is in AC review 00:18:08 ... the Call for Review was sent out [on 19 June] 00:18:23 ... please ask your AC Rep to respond 00:18:29 ... reach out where you can 00:18:57 ... the call for review runs through the end of this month 00:19:13 topic: Publishing@W3C Webinar 00:19:22 The Publishing@W3C Webinar agenda page is now live: https://www.w3.org/2020/07/publ-webinar/ And the Registration page is now open: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/publ-webinar/ 00:19:26 Daihei: Tzviya wasn't able to join us in this call today 00:19:34 ... the invitation is about to be sent out 00:20:07 Wendy: the details will be sent shortly 00:20:26 ... we plan two times: one in NA/Europe time and one in Asia/NA time 00:20:38 ... myself, Jeff, Mateus, Tzviya will present 00:20:53 ... the webinar is open to everyone; feel free to share the invitation when you get it 00:21:30 ... we'll be talking about the survey results we got earlier this year and what we plan to do after receiving that input 00:21:53 q+ 00:21:57 Daihei: the dates are 28 and 29 July 00:22:27 ShinyaTakami: thiis a global webinar 00:22:42 .. in Japan the situation is a bit different 00:22:47 ... as fixed layout is very important 00:22:58 ... but the survey results do not show that 00:23:15 q+ 00:23:18 ... we should localize and introduce this survey in the Japanese market 00:23:20 ack ShinyaTakami 00:23:26 ... to show the difference in the situation 00:23:41 ... it is very important to have a localized webinar for Japan 00:23:54 Daihei: yes; local topics are also welcome during the webinar 00:24:15 Wendy: yes; in the different time slots we plan to offer some local topics 00:24:38 ... we do recognize there are local/regional topics that are more specific for certain areas 00:24:50 ... people are welcome to ask us questions as well and we'll provide information as we have it 00:25:17 topic: Present for APL in Japan 00:25:30 Daihei: this is the topic that Takami-san just explained 00:25:47 ... this presentation is designed specifically for the Japanese market 00:25:58 ... issues relating to the digital publishing business in Japan 00:26:08 ack wendyreid 00:26:13 ... I was asked by APL to make this presentation end of July or early August 00:26:47 ... with the Webinar now scheduled end of July, it may be better to do this the beginning of August 00:27:01 ... this presentation is being planned by Yoshii-san, Takami-san, and myself 00:28:34 present+ Melanie_Bockmann 00:30:35 Yoshii: [Daihei translates] maybe sometime in September would work as well 00:31:16 ... for others at Keio Unversity who might be interested, such as students 00:32:04 ... with the COVID crisis, the digital business might do very well 00:32:34 ... 80 to 85% of the 3B dollar market in Japan is manga 00:32:38 q+ 00:32:49 ... that is what we would like to talk about in the seminar 00:34:14 Kamata-san: [Daihei translates] within digital publishing probably 300-500 publishers publish digital comics 00:34:43 ... but there are probablay 3500 publishers; the other 3000 create reflowable content 00:35:09 ... for those not so exposed to digital comics, what are your thoughts about where the digital publishing business might go from here? 00:38:42 Yoshii-san: [Daihei translates] I can't talk on behalf of publishers other than Kodansha 00:38:58 ... textbooks can use PDF 00:39:17 ... for printing companies, they can do anything that publishers request 00:39:56 ... industry organizations for printing houses and advertising agencies will probably not take strong actions to change the state of the market 00:40:08 ... probably for a couple of years it will continue as it is now 00:40:25 ... some publishers will keep the legacy of traditional Japanese literary materials 00:40:39 ... for users, it would be great if the backlist catalog could become EPUB 3 00:41:00 ... it is a matter of cost, time, and allocation of resources 00:41:19 Takami-san: I understand Kamata-sans concern 00:41:33 https://aebs.or.jp/ Association for E-publishing Business Solution : AEBS 00:41:34 ... the problem is the expense of generating digital content for Japan 00:41:41 ... Japanese layout is very complex 00:41:51 ... manga content is mostly generated by fixed layout 00:42:01 ... the fixed layout EPUB structure is still complicated 00:42:11 ... we need to simplify the structure of EPUB for Japanese content 00:42:28 ... it is very important to reduce the cost for generating manga 00:42:40 ... reflowable content is complicated 00:42:51 ... most of the reflowable content is hand-made 00:43:01 ... we have to think about this workflow effectively to change it 00:43:14 ... we have many aspects to change the situation 00:43:27 ... the capability of reading systems to accept "dirty" EPUB data 00:43:33 ... this is a difficult point in Japan 00:43:44 ... we have a traditional file format for 5-10 years 00:43:55 ... and many reading systems based not on web browser engines 00:44:08 ... but on an original rendering system 00:44:21 ... we have to focus on CSS features for such non-browser rendering systems 00:44:34 ... secondly, it is difficult to generate EPUB automatically 00:45:06 ... we need to get inDesign to collaborate better for Japanese; it is not currently good for generating Japanese EPUB 00:45:29 ... to reduce the cost of generating an EPUB file is very complicated 00:45:39 ... we have to consider many factors 00:46:13 Daihei: Ralph sent the Japanese Gap Analysis document 00:46:32 ... Shinya and I talked about that and the costs of generating Japanese layout 00:47:14 ... we consider CSS features that would help render Japanese better 00:47:25 ... Shinya and I can work on explaining the details more 00:47:59 ... although this is a Japanese market issue, we might reach out to other parts of W3C to help with improvement 00:48:18 topic: What are the business issues we face in the second half of 2020 for digital publications? 00:48:52 Daihei: we just talked about this for the Japanese market; something to streamline and reasonably control production costs for Japanese text 00:49:08 ... globally there are other issues 00:49:16 ... combinations of fixed layout and reflowable 00:49:25 ... for children's picturebooks 00:49:31 ... or cook books 00:49:53 ... publishers haven't yet exercised all the capabilities of digital publishing 00:50:03 ... Liisa mentioned that she has been asked to talk about this 00:50:25 q+ 00:50:35 ... what other business issues do people think should be discussed in the BG ? 00:52:58 Yoshii-san: [Daihei translates] the BG members mainly come from book publishers 00:53:12 ... but in Japan the newspapers have their own publication imprint 00:53:22 ... and are seeking for their digital business to expand 00:53:32 ... but due to production issues they have difficulty 00:53:52 ... but due to costs maybe digital publishing could help 00:54:07 ... if we improve some of the layout issues, with CSS and responsive dynamic layout 00:54:20 ... we could convey this to the EPUB 3 WG and the BG 00:54:28 ... so we can all discuss next steps 00:55:07 ShinyaTakami: are there any topics picked from the EPUB Survey to discuss in the BG? 00:55:23 ... will you plan to talk about these issues that are important to the BG during the webinar? 00:55:38 Daihei: there are a number of things that are related to the technical issues 00:55:48 ... and the improvement of the business 00:55:55 ... such as converting PDF to EPUB 00:56:08 ... there are a number of requirements outside of trade publishing 00:56:20 ... for academic 00:56:30 ... needs that people want to discuss further 00:56:52 ... there is great information in the survey responses and people would like to continue discussing problems to solve in the future 00:57:01 ... the PBG co-chairs would like to point those out and discuss here 00:57:11 ... we could talk about those in the webinar 00:57:31 ... Cristina will be presenting on accessbility 00:57:43 ... I will be presenting on issues for Asia 00:57:57 ... maybe Liisa will present on business issues in North America 00:58:29 topic: Guest presentations 00:58:56 Daihei: in the agenda I included a list of possible topics and presenters we might invite 00:59:10 ... you could review those and post your ideas to the list 00:59:26 scribe+ 00:59:39 Ralph: This list was meant to be a brainstorming list for the PBG chairs to consider 00:59:47 ... selecting topics for the BG 01:00:02 ... Daihei is soliciting what topics are considered the most interesting 01:00:14 ... feel free to suggest other topics, this is a start 01:01:14 YanniChang: the Taiwan market has problems similar to Japanese 01:01:26 ... we have many small publishers who are still learning to produce EPUB 01:01:47 ... 2 years ago we created a training guide from EPBAJ 01:01:53 ... and we have training courses 01:02:04 ... this year we are working on training for the audiobook spec 01:02:16 ... to teach how to create audiobooks according to the standard 01:02:26 ... we are working on translating the documents to traditional Chinese 01:02:47 ... also we are trying to create a WYSWIG audiobook editor 01:02:56 ... we hope to open-source it later this year 01:03:05 WendyReid: amazing 01:03:38 ... there is a link for registering intent to do a translation; I will send it to you 01:03:42 topic: Next meeting 01:03:51 Daihei: July 21 next NA/EU time 01:03:57 The EPUB3 guide in Taiwan: https://github.com/dpublishing/epub3guide 01:04:09 [adjourned] 01:04:30 Jeff: everyone is welcome to join the CG 01:04:43 ... and we would like a third co-chair too! 01:04:50 It based on EBPAJ' version, Jeff helped also. 01:04:57 ... we'll figure out the timezone! 01:05:12 zakim, end meeting 01:05:12 As of this point the attendees have been Junichi_Yoshii, Kamata, Yanni_Chang, Daihei, ShinyaTakami, Ralph, Wendy_Reid, Yanni, Jeff_Xu, wendyreid, Angela_Doll, jyoshii, MURATA, 01:05:15 ... Melanie_Bockmann 01:05:15 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 01:05:15 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/07-pbg-minutes.html Zakim 01:05:17 I am happy to have been of service, Ralph; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 01:05:21 Zakim has left #pbg 01:20:34 rrsagent, bye 01:20:34 I see no action items