JOC: We are continuing today with <Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/94 [RNIB] 4.18 Binaural audio track alternatives #94
<scribe> scribe: Joshue108
JW: We will continue
JS: We wanted to say something about 360 audio and spatial audio rather than the term binaural
JW: We had agreed to that.
JS: What about people with hearing loss? Spatial audio is out the door
JW: That is coming up
JOC: Asks about Judy's position on the use of binaural for this one.
JB: Can you come back to it?
JOC: Lets come back to #94
JW: The substance of what we were
going to do to the draft on this isn't clear.
... Lets look at 95
https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/95
[RNIB New Use Case] 4.20 Mono audio option #95
https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-rqtf-minutes.html
<jasonjgw> This is a suggested requirement for mono audio to be sent to both ears.
relates also to https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/80
JW: We did discuss in connection with 94.
I think we had an agreement that it is a valid complement
JW: More to say?
JS: Yes, we need to tease out the impact of mono.
In that you will miss a lot
without it.
The user may need to relisten etc to catch e'thing
There is a also a reliance on user specific EQ
The most successful version of this may be an OS level EQ setting
JS: +1 esp on last point.
There will have to be a combining of channels
Could be an OS requirement - doesn't mean it shouldn't be listed here.
JS: Clean audio comes into it.
ETSI Clean audio https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/80
From the MAUR https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/media-a11y-reqs/#clean-audio
JW: Next
https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/100 4.7 focuses on high contrast solutions #100
SH: I disagree with this. It doesn't refer to a specific contrast ratio - so as long as contrast is good its ok.
Could be problematic to start to introduce this.
JS: Is there something specific about this, that makes it different in immersive that isn't covered by WCAG?
SH: Dont see getting into the detail.
# https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/99 4.9 and 4.10 similarities for notifications and updates #99
JS: Not sure this is an issue
JOC: I'm not really sure what is being asked here.
JW: NEEDS INFO
SH: I'm also a bit confused
# https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/78 Marking objects as "important"
JOC: So do we need to use 'more important' or generic affordance requirements in XAUR?
JW: You do need to know which items are significant.
So things that are not important are filtered.
Is this the same? Or going beyond that?
Depending on interaction context?
DOn't know if that embraces both concerns?
We should try to address that general issue.
SH: for me this is largely covered as is.
What is being proposed is like immersive ARIA.
But the things that should be known are there.
Some things could become more important - don't need to point to things that are priorities.
JS: I'm in agreement with Scott,
and need to know what the specific a11y use case is here.
... This is situational also.
Defining important is part of the issue - is there a specific reason that a user with a disability would need specific guideance
JW: Synthesising what is important without parsing the sub objects is needed.
Filtering.
This is a problem we don't find in the ordinary environment.
JS: yes we do.
We've been dealing with this in DAISY
JS: <gives more info>
... Issue of classification.
SH: Do we want to store the items that are important?
Or specify those that are?
JOC: It comes down to situation aspects - this is like focus management for XR.
JS: Wonders if this is authoring vs user agent requirement?
It is good to expose more here - there may be a kerbcut here.
Think of DAISY - cookbook, soups, salads etc
As a data base that can be filtered on the fly, and filter via one ingredient.
Then look at whatelse is in the fridge - then you look at what you have and request meal ideas that relate to those things..
JW: Janina makes a great point.
Filtering by these kind of criteria can be very useful.
JW: How much falls on the environment etc and on the author is useful.
JS: Happy to see what Scott comes up with.
SN: When looking at that requirement - that is true in almost every setting.
We've reviewed employee training <gives example>
Sighted person could see it instantly, and a non sighted person had to look for it.
Valid consideration.
JB: Here's how I'm looking at it.
We are talking about Immersive audio and defining space there.
It is saying it is crucial for people with severe sight loss - I think its important for other disability types. We may need to broaden the relevance.
I've found immersive audio powerful.
So, is the world binaural the wrong word and is spatial generally ok?
I think the word spatial audio is good to be using, and has a general and specified meaning.
DOesn't matter
We are thinking in a binary way.
What is more typical, among hearing loss - at different freqs in differ ears.
People who know what their digital profile is, and customisation could be supported for that - would be great.
JB: If you could adjust that -
and interop with hearing aids - that would be powerful audio
experience.
... Do we have something related to this?
JS: Agree.
... However, its not just on the app to provide this on its
own, but the OS.
JB: How many different audio
provisions do we have at the moment?
... 5 or 6?
JS: About right.
JB: Need to look back at the
whole thing.
... Wondering if we are capturing this at different levels.
JOC: Is judy happy with use of spatial and not binaural>
JB: Yup
JW: Can we move onto A11y of Remote meetings?
JS: We need to look at MS, Apple etc to look at this..
JB: Are we avoiding saying something here?
<Judy> JB: Keep looking for a provision with a clearer header saying to support graduated levels of performance for different ears
JS: No avoiding it would be wrong.
Users may need it e'where, and not just in an app.
JB: Gets tricky.
May be good for immersive apps to do what they can, where they can.
JS: Like WCAG until user agents support type language..
JW: Noting where that should be addressed is useful
Lets check that remote meetings page for known issues.
and see what we can close at the end of the page.
<SteveNoble> Sorry - have to run to another meeting
This is scribe.perl Revision of Date Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Default Present: scott_h, SteveNoble, sajkaj, Joshue, Judy Present: scott_h SteveNoble sajkaj Joshue Judy Joshue108 Found Scribe: Joshue108 Inferring ScribeNick: Joshue108 Found Date: 03 Jun 2020 People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]