20:06:51 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dxwgdcat
20:06:51 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-dxwgdcat-irc
20:07:32 <RiccardoAlbertoni> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:07:39 <RiccardoAlbertoni> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:07:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-dxwgdcat-minutes.html RiccardoAlbertoni
20:08:48 <RiccardoAlbertoni> meeting: DXWG DCAT Subgroup
20:09:12 <RiccardoAlbertoni> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2020.04.29
20:09:38 <RiccardoAlbertoni> rsagent, create minutes v2
20:09:47 <RiccardoAlbertoni> rrsagent, create minutes v2
20:09:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-dxwgdcat-minutes.html RiccardoAlbertoni
21:01:05 <SimonCox> SimonCox has joined #dxwgdcat
21:05:43 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #dxwgdcat
21:14:21 <alejandra> alejandra has joined #dxwgdcat
21:14:25 <RiccardoAlbertoni> regrets+ PWinstanley
21:15:05 <alejandra> present+
21:15:17 <SimonCox> present+
21:15:26 <RiccardoAlbertoni> Chair: RiccardoAlbertoni
21:15:36 <alejandra> scribenick: alejandra
21:15:57 <RiccardoAlbertoni> PROPOSED: approve last meeting minutes  https://www.w3.org/2020/04/15-dxwgdcat-minutes
21:16:03 <RiccardoAlbertoni> +1
21:16:11 <SimonCox> +1
21:16:16 <alejandra> +1
21:16:20 <AndreaPerego> +1
21:16:27 <alejandra> RESOLVED: approve last meeting minutes  https://www.w3.org/2020/04/15-dxwgdcat-minutes
21:16:33 <RiccardoAlbertoni> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:16:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-dxwgdcat-minutes.html RiccardoAlbertoni
21:17:05 <RiccardoAlbertoni> present+
21:17:12 <RiccardoAlbertoni> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2020.04.29
21:17:15 <alejandra> Topic: agenda
21:17:16 <alejandra> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2020.04.29
21:17:33 <alejandra> +1
21:17:37 <AndreaPerego> +1
21:17:50 <SimonCox> +1
21:17:51 <alejandra> we will follow this agenda
21:18:04 <alejandra> Topic: Mid-term plan and priorities among the issues
21:18:19 <RiccardoAlbertoni> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1m3UPFKnpRN4vYhB_d60-pszyTQ6huSDtxp5Xt_A2EFc/edit#gid=0
21:19:11 <alejandra> RiccardoAlbertoni: the document includes options for journals, criteria on impact, select a place where we have the opportunity to engage across community people, current draft is quite technical
21:19:22 <alejandra> ... there are some journals that are probably  more suitable than others
21:19:26 <alejandra> +q
21:19:43 <RiccardoAlbertoni> ack
21:19:45 <alejandra> ... we could work on another paper for a broader audience
21:21:58 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:22:05 <RiccardoAlbertoni> ack alejandra
21:22:08 <alejandra> alejandra: I am interested in having an open access article, and have a pre-print first
21:22:09 <RiccardoAlbertoni> ack AndreaPerego
21:22:33 <alejandra> ... good to have a technical paper first, and we can consider a broader audience later
21:22:44 <SimonCox> q+
21:23:16 <alejandra> SimonCox: I've dealt with Semantic Web Journal in the past, separate channel through which paper get published on open access, very long queue
21:23:45 <alejandra> RiccardoAlbertoni: similar experience of long queue, data quality paper took very long to have the revision
21:24:07 <RiccardoAlbertoni> 500 euro
21:24:12 <alejandra> ... very good journal and fee for open access is not high
21:24:38 <alejandra> ... it could be a good starting point
21:24:50 <SimonCox> q+
21:25:02 <alejandra> ... it is also very well-known in SW community but not sure outside the community
21:25:07 <RiccardoAlbertoni> ack SimonCox
21:25:24 <alejandra> SimonCox: question - who is the target audience? SW audience?
21:25:33 <alejandra> ... we should have an evaluation
21:25:49 <alejandra> ... we have evidence of implementations but not sure how much we have in terms of metrics
21:26:10 <alejandra> ... SW stack but we didn't design it in a rigourous actiomatized way
21:26:17 <alejandra> ... metadata descriptive library community
21:26:51 <alejandra> RiccardoAlbertoni: you're right, but data quality vocabulary is not highly axiomatized either
21:27:01 <alejandra> ... and got accepted in SWJ
21:27:19 <alejandra> ... many similaries can make it less interesting for the journal
21:27:21 <alejandra> +1
21:27:23 <alejandra> +q
21:27:29 <RiccardoAlbertoni> ack alejandra
21:28:56 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:29:18 <alejandra> alejandra: I agree that we need to define the audience first and it seems to me that it should be broader than SW and indeed include the library community
21:29:21 <RiccardoAlbertoni> ack AndreaPerego
21:29:35 <alejandra> SimonCox: DLIB but has not been publishing in the last 3 years
21:29:57 <alejandra> alejandra: highlight aspects on cataloguing and resource, including data services
21:30:20 <alejandra> AndreaPerego: agree on broader audience and emphasising on new features, also we should emphasise on interoperability
21:30:30 <alejandra> ... not sure if the library community as they have specific requirements
21:30:42 <alejandra> ... journal not limited on specific community in terms of data management
21:30:47 <alejandra> +q
21:30:52 <RiccardoAlbertoni> ack alejandra
21:31:43 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:32:09 <RiccardoAlbertoni> ack AndreaPerego
21:33:03 <alejandra> alejandra: perhaps CODATA journal and the Data Science Journal, as there have been special issues around FAIR data... we should continue writing if we agree on technical paper + audience broader than SW
21:33:32 <alejandra> AndreaPerego: we could consider Scientific Data, and we need to take into account that the most used standards are DataCite and schema.org
21:33:46 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:33:50 <alejandra> RiccardoAlbertoni: we need to clarify the contribution, and the writing of the paper could clarify these points
21:33:51 <RiccardoAlbertoni> ack AndreaPerego
21:34:49 <alejandra> AndreaPerego: my personal view looking at how DCAT has been used is that DataCite was designed to support a standard way of data citation on research data, DCAT is not bound to a specific community, meaning that it can be used for scientific data and public sector information and has a broader application
21:34:59 <alejandra> AndreaPerego: we can emphasise on this broader application
21:35:19 <alejandra> RiccardoAlbertoni: one concern is schema.org as there are big players behind this metadata schema
21:35:25 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:35:53 <RiccardoAlbertoni> ack AndreaPerego
21:36:28 <alejandra> AndreaPerego: on the schema.org topic, we can argue that it was designed to optmise and improve of index of dataset pages by search engines
21:36:42 <alejandra> ... DCAT as any other standard is not to replace, but has different applications
21:37:08 <alejandra> ... similar with other standards, DCAT is to make data interoperable
21:37:26 <alejandra> ... linking resources in an effective and actionable way is something that is missing
21:38:19 <AndreaPerego> q+ to ask which is the open access fee for Scientific Data
21:38:28 <alejandra> RiccardoAlbertoni: we could follow what alejandra was suggesting, not to decide now and write up, impact is important for me
21:38:56 <alejandra> ... we can discuss this later
21:41:17 <alejandra> https://www.nature.com/sdata/about/oa
21:42:18 <alejandra> Topic: Open issues
21:42:22 <RiccardoAlbertoni>   Scope of DCAT - datasets, or digital descriptions https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/1235
21:42:22 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:42:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:42:37 <alejandra> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:42:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
21:43:14 <alejandra> RiccardoAlbertoni: discussion around DCAT not being just about data and providing patterns for cataloguing
21:43:25 <alejandra> +q
21:43:36 <SimonCox> q+
21:43:45 <AndreaPerego> q-
21:43:45 <alejandra> ... not sure if we are ready to push for a general cataloguing vocabulary
21:43:55 <alejandra> ... provide examples, collect implementations
21:44:23 <alejandra> ... do it as a kind of proces in which we don't decide now to change the name, but suggest these inclusions on next PWD
21:44:31 <RiccardoAlbertoni> ack alejandra
21:45:20 <RiccardoAlbertoni> q?
21:45:24 <RiccardoAlbertoni> ack SimonCox
21:46:08 <alejandra> alejandra: +1 to Riccardo but I think it was useful to start the discussion, we can think about the acronym later but it is important to consider the broader cataloguing patterns beyond data
21:46:25 <AndreaPerego_> AndreaPerego_ has joined #dxwgdcat
21:46:33 <alejandra> SimonCox: yes, the issue was to indicate to the community that we are considering this but I wasn't expecting to resolve this issue soon
21:47:02 <alejandra> +q
21:47:09 <SimonCox> DO we need a resolution now?
21:47:39 <alejandra> alejandra: does this need to be resolved now? we can leave the issue open
21:47:59 <alejandra> RiccardoAlbertoni: I'd like to give the signal that we won't change the acronym now
21:48:44 <SimonCox> Proposed: Consideration of the scope of DCAT - just data or also other kinds of resources - is important but cannot be resolved now. We should proceed to develop examples and use-cases, then we can later consider whether the vocabulary needs re-naming or not.
21:49:02 <alejandra> +1
21:49:03 <RiccardoAlbertoni> +1
21:49:06 <SimonCox> +1
21:49:07 <AndreaPerego_> +1
21:49:20 <alejandra> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:49:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
21:50:18 <alejandra> RiccardoAlbertoni: is there any volunteer to check where we should emphasise broader catalogues and provide a PR?
21:50:18 <SimonCox> Resolved: Consideration of the scope of DCAT - just data or also other kinds of resources - is important but cannot be resolved now. We should proceed to develop examples and use-cases, then we can later consider whether the vocabulary needs re-naming or not.
21:50:27 <SimonCox> q+
21:50:32 <RiccardoAlbertoni> ack SimonCox
21:50:32 <alejandra> ... otherwise we go to next point
21:50:51 <alejandra> SimonCox: I think that at this stage we just need to add a note in the issue referring to this resolution
21:50:52 <RiccardoAlbertoni> ack alejandra
21:51:02 <RiccardoAlbertoni> q?
21:51:28 <RiccardoAlbertoni> is a software solution a dcat:Dataset ? https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/1221 ;
21:51:33 <RiccardoAlbertoni> q?
21:51:45 <alejandra> alejandra: +1, I don't think changes related to this are urgent, we should focus on new features or addressing other feedback
21:51:48 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent: draft minutes v2
21:51:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:52:15 <alejandra> RiccardoAlbertoni: issue 1221 - discussion has reached a conclusion
21:52:30 <alejandra> ... PR emphasises that the dataset definition is broad
21:52:55 <RiccardoAlbertoni> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/1195
21:52:56 <alejandra> This is the PR: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/1226
21:53:50 <AndreaPerego> +1 for me to merge this PR
21:54:57 <alejandra> the PR was approved
21:55:06 <RiccardoAlbertoni> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/1195
21:55:09 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent: draft minutes v2
21:55:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:55:18 <RiccardoAlbertoni> The notion of dataset in DCAT is broad and inclusive, with the intention of accommodating resource types arising from all communities. If someone consider something as a dataset it is a dataset for DCAT. We refrain from restricting the definition of DCAT dataset to specific communities. Our responsibility, on the contrary,  to make the definition general enough to accommodate any definition of datasets that arise by quite distinct an[CUT]
21:55:42 <alejandra> * I haven't and was wondering the same thing
21:55:55 <alejandra> RiccardoAlbertoni: the issue emphasises on the different notions of dataset
21:56:54 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:57:14 <RiccardoAlbertoni> ack AndreaPerego
21:57:41 <alejandra> AndreaPerego: we're trying to set up a common approach for data documentation
21:58:06 <alejandra> ... there was an initial period where we were trying to propose a definition and every time wasn' t fitting definitions of specific disciplines
21:58:16 <alejandra> ... so we went for the option on saying "you are the expert"
21:58:51 <alejandra> ... if you look at the list of things that Google dataset search documentation they give a list of things and then "anything else that looks as a dataset to you"
21:59:40 <RiccardoAlbertoni> q?
21:59:45 <alejandra> +q
21:59:49 <RiccardoAlbertoni> ack alejandra
22:00:44 <alejandra> the feedback points to https://github.com/heidivanparys/discussion_paper_dataset/releases/tag/v20200306
22:01:18 <alejandra> AndreaPerego: the notion of data is also tricky
22:01:34 <alejandra> ... structured data depends very much on your background
22:01:42 <alejandra> ... what is a unit?
22:03:03 <SimonCox> In particular when we think of humanities!
22:05:07 <alejandra> action: alejandra to look at https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/1195
22:05:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-421 - Look at https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/1195 [on Alejandra Gonzalez Beltran - due 2020-05-06].
22:05:12 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
22:05:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
22:05:34 <alejandra> RiccardoAlbertoni: are we meeting in two weeks again?
22:05:38 <RiccardoAlbertoni> May 13th
22:05:40 <AndreaPerego> Fine with me.
22:05:44 <alejandra> +1
22:06:14 <alejandra> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
22:06:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
22:06:29 <RiccardoAlbertoni> bye!
22:06:36 <SimonCox> bye
22:28:18 <riccardoAlbertoni> riccardoAlbertoni has joined #dxwgdcat