16:00:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tt
16:00:45 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/03/26-tt-irc
16:00:48 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:00:49 <Zakim> Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
16:01:05 <atsushi> (will join after i18n WG call ends,,, hope in short time)
16:01:24 <nigel> Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2020/03/19-tt-minutes.html
16:02:14 <nigel> Present: Andreas, Cyril, Gary, Nigel
16:02:48 <nigel> Chair: Nigel, Gary
16:03:25 <nigel> Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/102
16:03:34 <nigel> nigel has changed the topic to: TTWG Teleconference. Agenda for 2020-03-26 1600 UTC meeting: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/102
16:03:46 <cyril> scribe: cyril
16:03:50 <nigel> Present+ Glenn
16:04:25 <cyril> Topic: This meeting
16:06:51 <cyril> nigel: looking light today
16:06:59 <cyril> ... IMSC1.2, TTML2 2nd ed IR
16:07:02 <cyril> ... and some AOBs
16:07:14 <glenn> glenn has joined #tt
16:07:37 <atsushi> present+
16:07:42 <nigel> Present+ Atsushi, Pierre
16:08:35 <cyril> ... to alert people to minor tweaks in the charter
16:08:44 <atsushi> AOB+ added https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-imsc/rec and it points to https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-imsc1.1/ (got right now)
16:08:51 <cyril> ... thanks to atsushi for preparing calendar files
16:09:05 <cyril> ... and about a joint session with PING
16:09:17 <cyril> ... any other business that other people want to add?
16:09:42 <cyril> atsushi: I pasted it on IRC a new link
16:10:12 <cyril> ... which points to the latest IMSC spec
16:10:44 <cyril> Topic: IMSC 1.2
16:10:55 <cyril> nigel: the main news is we published CR
16:10:58 <cyril> ... thanks everybody
16:11:02 <nigel> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/2020/CR-ttml-imsc1.2-20200324/ IMSC 1.2 CR
16:11:20 <cyril> ... we do expect to have an empty IR
16:11:26 <cyril> ... because it's a profile
16:11:35 <cyril> ... and the tests are already in TTML2
16:11:40 <cyril> ... we do have some editorial changes
16:11:50 <cyril> ... Pierre, any concern from an editorial perspective?
16:11:54 <cyril> pal: yes
16:12:08 <cyril> ... my first concern is that I've not heard back from the commenter
16:12:15 <cyril> ... it's been 2 weeks ago
16:12:20 <cyril> nigel: on accessibility?
16:12:23 <cyril> pal: yes
16:12:39 <cyril> ... it could all be that this was confusion due to the spec not being clear
16:12:52 <cyril> ... a potential solution could be to add an introduction
16:12:57 <cyril> ... really editorial but some work
16:13:04 <cyril> ... I don't know how to get the commenter back
16:13:18 <cyril> nigel: it's fine for me to poke that group
16:13:35 <cyril> pal: If we meet with PING, we might do the same with APA
16:13:40 <cyril> nigel: I'll propose that
16:14:09 <cyril> ... would you rather try and schedule that during the call or as a separate call?
16:14:25 <cyril> pal: this is going to be detailed so not necessary to be in the call
16:14:55 <cyril> cyril: we are not very busy in the calls these days, we could use them
16:15:03 <cyril> atai: agree
16:15:22 <cyril> nigel: for PING we may need a different time
16:15:29 <cyril> ... but for APA, I'll offer that time
16:15:49 <cyril> nigel: other issues on IMSC1.2?
16:15:56 <cyril> ... similar concerns?
16:16:08 <cyril> pal: no, the rest, I don't foresee any issue
16:16:38 <cyril> ... thanks again to everybody for getting to CR
16:16:44 <cyril> Topic: TTML2 2nd Edition Implementation Report
16:16:56 <cyril> nigel: thanks Glenn for the work on the tests
16:17:03 <cyril> ... I'm now up to date on all but 1
16:17:17 <cyril> ... the one I haven't managed to comment on is the one audio in body
16:17:29 <cyril> ... I'm aware that I'm going to be on the hook for providing implementation
16:17:44 <cyril> ... and I want to make sure our implementation is working
16:18:33 <cyril> ... my review approach has been checking the spec changes
16:18:41 <cyril> ... and that the tests match something sensible with the spec
16:19:02 <cyril> glenn: you found a couple of good issues to fix, thanks
16:19:11 <cyril> ... I have a couple of minor issues to deal with
16:19:18 <cyril> ... early next week should be fixed
16:19:27 <cyril> nigel: I'll keep reviewing them
16:19:43 <cyril> glenn: you should be able to get one set of implementations through TTT next week
16:19:56 <cyril> ... I haven't checked other implementations
16:20:44 <cyril> nigel: I encourage everybody else to have a look at the current PR
16:20:49 <cyril> ... the more eyes the better
16:21:17 <cyril> cyril: anybody looked at the draft IR?
16:21:20 <cyril> glenn: not yet
16:21:34 <cyril> cyril: probably needs updating based on the new PRs
16:21:47 <cyril> glenn: I'll get to that probably early next week
16:22:31 <nigel> -> https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/TTML2SecondEditionImplementationReport TTML2 2nd Ed IR
16:23:08 <cyril> nigel: with those PR, we add various files, so we need to do a second pass
16:23:42 <cyril> ... anything else on TTML2?
16:23:53 <cyril> Topic: Minor Charter updates
16:24:29 <cyril> nigel: somehow we published the charter with "fix me" comments in the charter document
16:24:37 <cyril> ... atsushi noticed them and made some changes
16:24:45 <cyril> atsushi: the changes are already live now
16:24:56 <cyril> nigel: the changes section at the end and the team contact have been changed
16:25:03 <cyril> ... no need for approval from the team
16:25:12 <cyril> ... this is an informative item
16:25:14 <cyril> ... questions?
16:25:20 <cyril> Topic Calendar files in agendas
16:25:24 <cyril> Topic: Calendar files in agendas
16:25:48 <cyril> nigel: you might have noticed that this agenda included a link , in the time section to a *.ics file
16:26:11 <cyril> ... when we discussed the DST switch, someone suggested that we should have a calendar reminder
16:26:28 <cyril> ... we can now easily do it, thanks to Atsushi
16:26:47 <cyril> ... it seems to me possible to create an ICS with multiple meetings or per meeting
16:26:58 <cyril> ... the multiple meetings in one file did not work for me
16:27:06 <cyril> ... have a look
16:27:23 <cyril> ... every agenda issue has one of these things in it
16:27:37 <cyril> ... it's early days, any feedback is useful
16:27:59 <atsushi> https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=23takkp7lmcssc6b6ggmpr7m1mhfac2d%40import.calendar.google.com&ctz=Asia%2FTokyo
16:28:46 <cyril> cyril: not sure it's that useful if the file changes every meeting
16:28:51 <cyril> pal: agree with cyril
16:29:09 <cyril> atsushi: I pasted into IRC, the one I added to my calendar
16:29:09 <pal> pal has joined #tt
16:29:17 <cyril> ... you may get several events
16:29:55 <cyril> https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=23takkp7lmcssc6b6ggmpr7m1mhfac2d%40import.calendar.google.com&ctz=Asia%2FTokyo
16:30:21 <cyril> cyril: I don't have permission to view
16:30:30 <atsushi> https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/wip/meetings.ics
16:30:32 <cyril> nigel: you need to be logged in Google
16:30:44 <nigel> s/Topic Calendar files in agendas//
16:31:06 <nigel> s/it seems to me possible/it seems to be possible
16:31:15 <gkatsev> q+
16:31:29 <nigel> ack g
16:31:30 <cyril> pal: I've just tried to add the ICS file and we'll see if it works
16:31:44 <cyril> gkatsev: it looks like there is a way to make recurrent events in ICS
16:31:52 <cyril> ... the issue is that you have to do it manually
16:32:17 <gkatsev> -> https://icalendar.org/iCalendar-RFC-5545/3-8-5-3-recurrence-rule.html ics reccurance rules
16:33:09 <cyril> nigel: Is there general feeling that 1 ICS file with recurrence rule would be useful>
16:33:20 <cyril> s/useful>/useful?/
16:33:47 <cyril> atsushi: until the next DST change it could work
16:34:05 <cyril> ... but I'm worried about recurrence after the next DST change
16:35:55 <nigel> -> https://www.timeanddate.com/scripts/ics.php?type=utc&p1=1440&iso=20200326T16 TimeAndDate ICS generator
16:36:37 <cyril> nigel: I could look at timeanddate creating the ICS
16:36:51 <cyril> Topic: Arranging joint session with PING
16:37:22 <cyril> nigel: nick said that he cannot make our time
16:37:50 <cyril> s/nick/pete/
16:38:11 <cyril> nigel: what I'm tempted to do is suggest the hour afterwards
16:39:33 <cyril> pal: I'll be available next week at the hour following the meeting
16:39:47 <cyril> nigel: nice, for European folks that would be an hour later
16:39:56 <cyril> ... for US, it would be the same hour as today
16:40:13 <cyril> nigel: I'll go back to PING and propose that
16:41:05 <cyril> Topic: imsc/rec link
16:41:31 <cyril> nigel: IMSC1.1 has a link to latest IMSC1 recommendation
16:41:54 <nigel> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-imsc1.1/ IMSC 1.1 has a link to "Latest IMSC1 recommendation:"
16:42:05 <cyril> ... and it points to https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-imsc1.0.1/
16:42:08 <nigel> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-imsc1/ is where it points
16:42:28 <cyril> nigel: resolves to IMSC 1.0.1
16:42:37 <cyril> ... but I'm really expecting 1.1
16:43:00 <cyril> ... and when we publish 1.2 it should point to that
16:43:15 <cyril> pal: yes, the link is broken
16:43:31 <cyril> nigel: atsushi made some changes
16:43:54 <nigel> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-imsc/rec New "latest" link
16:43:59 <cyril> atsushi: the /rec link is new and points to the latest recommendation of IMSC
16:44:06 <nigel> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-imsc1.1/ where it resolves to today
16:44:23 <cyril> ... regardless of the version of TTML IMSC
16:44:37 <cyril> ... now it is pointing to 1.1
16:44:41 <cyril> nigel: thanks
16:45:14 <cyril> ... the proposal is that we do replacement of the latest IMSC1 link in IMSC1.1 to point to that /rec
16:45:23 <cyril> ... I think that's possible to do in-place
16:45:30 <cyril> atsushi: yes
16:46:17 <cyril> cyril: we also need to change the link in 1.0.1
16:46:19 <cyril> nigel: yes
16:46:57 <cyril> cyril: and also the 1.0 spec
16:47:02 <cyril> https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/REC-ttml-imsc1-20160421/
16:47:48 <cyril> nigel: there is also a banner that tells you it's outdated which points to IMSC1.0.1
16:48:10 <cyril> ... 1.0.1 is still out and is not superseeded
16:48:15 <atsushi> https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-imsc1.0/
16:49:38 <cyril> cyril: we should be clear that the latest IMSC1.0 is 1.0.1 but the latest IMSC is 1.1 and soon 1.2
16:49:41 <cyril> nigel: right
16:51:09 <cyril> cyril: we need 2 links: latest 1.0 spec and latest IMSC
16:51:40 <cyril> pal: people who have kept a link to 1.0 and got there, see it's outdated, they should get a link to 1.0.1
16:51:43 <cyril> nigel: agree
16:53:01 <cyril> ... I think where it says "Latest IMSC1 Recommendation" we need to say "Latest IMSC Recommendation" and point to the rec link
16:53:20 <cyril> ... that change applies to 3 current document: 1.0.1 REC, 1.1 REC and 1.2 CR
16:54:10 <cyril> cyril: agree, but what do we do this link http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-imsc1/?
16:54:37 <cyril> ... because strictly speaking the latest is 1.1 or 1.2
16:54:46 <cyril> pal: historically, IMSC1 was IMSC1.0
16:56:09 <cyril> ... maybe it's not perfect, but not completely broken
16:57:07 <cyril> nigel: if we change the link pointed to by  http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-imsc1/ we would need to change 1.0 and 1.0.1, and that's extra work
16:57:18 <cyril> ... my inclination is not to do this extra work
16:58:28 <cyril> atsushi: I need a WG agreement and resolution
16:59:20 <cyril> RESOLUTION: Change "Latest IMSC1 Recommendation"  to "Latest IMSC Recommendation" and point to the rec link in 3 current documents: 1.0.1 REC, 1.1 REC and 1.2 CR
17:00:40 <cyril> nigel: in 1.2 we could wait for PR but it's confusing
17:01:24 <cyril> atsushi: from a process point of view, there is no edited CR
17:01:39 <cyril> pal: in the past, we made such minor changes without going through the process
17:01:54 <cyril> nigel: let's try to do the resolution and revisit if we have a problem
17:03:00 <nigel> scribe: nigel
17:03:15 <nigel> atsushi: I will draft an email and CC Nigel
17:03:22 <nigel> Topic: Meeting close
17:03:33 <nigel> Nigel: Thanks everyone, that's our agenda completed, apologies we're 2 minutes over.
17:03:37 <nigel> .. [adjourns meeting]
17:03:43 <nigel> rrsagent, make minutes v2
17:03:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/03/26-tt-minutes.html nigel
17:05:58 <nigel> s/it's fine for me to poke that group/Given it's been a couple of weeks it's fine for me to poke that group
17:06:58 <nigel> s/with those PR, we add various files/with those pull requests, we add various test files
17:13:29 <nigel> zakim, end meeting
17:13:29 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Andreas, Cyril, Gary, Nigel, Glenn, atsushi, Pierre
17:13:31 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
17:13:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/03/26-tt-minutes.html Zakim
17:13:34 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, nigel; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
17:13:38 <Zakim> Zakim has left #tt
17:15:20 <nigel> ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
17:15:25 <nigel> rrsagent, make minutes v2
17:15:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/03/26-tt-minutes.html nigel
17:16:56 <nigel> Present+ Atsushi
17:17:02 <nigel> Present- atsushi
17:17:04 <nigel> rrsagent, make minutes v2
17:17:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/03/26-tt-minutes.html nigel
17:17:52 <nigel> Present+ Atsushi
17:17:54 <nigel> rrsagent, make minutes v2
17:17:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/03/26-tt-minutes.html nigel
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