<jongund> I am up for anything
<jongund> we have Zoom at Illinois
<jcraig> scribe: CurtBellew
JN: f2f. Based on a number of
things that have come up we are cancelling the face to
face
... Propose a virtual f2f
... 2 days rather than 3? Maybe 3 or 4 hours per day?
<aaronlev> is the webex working?
Sure, jcraig :)
I'm happy to share
<jcraig> +1 to F2F
<jcraig> (remote)
<MarkMccarthy> +1
<aaronlev> ok, i'm dumb
JN: timing of it? EArly is
probably best
... Early helps with Europe timing
... 7am-11am West coast time?
Stefan: Will probably work
JN: Not ideal for Europe but it's probably the best we can.
Stephon => Stephan
JG: 2 days of ARIA and one day ofof APG?
JN: Sounds good
... Wherever TPAC 2021 is will most likely drive where we will
have the next f2f
... a decision to be made later
... details about the virtual f2f once we have planned it
out
JN: 'Move section on presentation role conflicts to “Handling Author Errors”'. Kind of agree . Anyone disagree?
MK: Not 100% sure what that is
jn: conceptually I agree with this
mk: a 1.3 thing.
jn: anyone disagree with 1.3?
cm: works for me
Sina: Is there a way to callout the most conflated things?
jn: no. We sometimes add notes when things might be confusing
Sina: discussion for later. With certain things we might be able to predict that things might be questioned for valid reasons. A nice editorial concept
mk: We will often put in the description of the pattern why you would use pattern A vs pattern B
jc: the reason we added none and the reason we have moved to using it more is that authors tend to associated it more to the idea of presentation elements
mk: so for clarity but not because the examples are wrong
jn: next one we have looked at
jn: we have one issue with a PR
on the list
... waiting on myself to review it
... mk, were you going to review this?
<carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1207
mk: on my list
jn: that's the only one on that list.
jn: 7 on this list
jn: PR waiting for cb to
review
... cb please review this
cb: will get on that
<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1178
jn: 1178
mk: waiting on a PR
... by the end of the day tomorrow
jn: 1164. waiting on me
... hopefully get to that soon
... 1163
cm: this one is mine
... you had said that two sentences need combining. I've pasted
some text.
jn: I'll take a look
... Mark says it looks good
... 1161
... assigned to jn and scott
joanie: 1163. looking at the
second change . "user agent must use". Means we need to
retest
... "user agent should" change would make this easier
<Zakim> joanie, you wanted to go back to 1163
jn: make the change from "should"
to "must" in 1.3
... 1151. waiting on my unless someone else wants to
volunteer
... just taking Brian's comments in to a PR
jg: I can try out 1151.
jn: assigned to jg
jc: jg when you're done you can assign me as a reviewer
jn: 1150
... so was looking at this but he's been super busy. He's the
right person for this
<carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1044
jn: 1044 . Create property for
repeated content
... things that are repeated across pages we want to a way to
allow AT users to skip those in certain circumstances
... al came up with a PR suggesting a name
al: I'm still thinking of better
names
... redundant may be the best word
... each page isn't necessarily repeated but it's
redundant
... rather than saying aria-redundant=true we say something
like aria-filtertype=redundant
jc: we even talked about more
robust naming
... aria-filterable maybe. but values for that that allow for
things like page header or page header etc
... gives a good idea as to why it's redundant rather than the
fact that it is redundant
jg: landmarks are supposed to be used to identify headers and footers so how would this be different?
al: when I looked at the definition it didn't match
jn: headers and footers , you're really only intended to have one per site
jg: the name should indicate to the author. What does filter mean to the author. What are we asking them to decide?
mk: I agree with the sentiment.
We do need to be very clear
... we're trying to enable someone to read a document without
hearing excess information
... The idea is for the author to be able to create a reading
experience and for the screen reader to be able to let the user
know that the reading experience is available
... Propose the idea of a reading mode filter with these types
in it
<Zakim> jamesn, you wanted to suggest that we could introduce something that allows someone to say that 2 elements are the same. I.e aria-reference=a on both elements
mk: reading mode filter, the screen reader could have flexibility
jn: I wanted to suggest
potentially that we have something to say that two elements on
the page are same thing
... some sort of a reference so that the AT could determine
that they've already prestented it
mk: it's possible that an author would want both presented
jn: in that case they don't have to filter it
sina: a reference to something
else does give more information but it makes it more difficult
to implement
... before naming, can we discuss it holistically?
<jcraig> that's Sina I think, not me
sina: for me the concern is that browser and AT combo make decisions
thanks
jn: we have a q
<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to mention the existing dpub role: doc-pullquote https://www.w3.org/TR/dpub-aria-1.0/#doc-pullquote
jc: we do have an existing doc
roles that do sort of map
... the goal was to bring some of these in to the core
spec
... one way we could do this is to bring in these sub-roles
(chapter, pullquote) into the core aria spec and make them
something that the AT could use to filter
... rather than filtering it out of the read all mode
mk: understanding what you're
saying sina. if we have an ARIA property like this , any
default reading methodology none of this filtering would
occur
... only in read to end or something like that
... depends on whether an AT turns that option on by
default
<jcraig> s/jc: before naming, /sina: before naming, /
mk: another thing AT could do is offer an indicator that something is being skipped
sina: JAWS already has complex filtering so we are just adding to that. giving authors more options for filtering is worrisome
al: the original proposal was for
page header and page footer
... suggestion was that it might be more uses
mk: limiting it might make the decision
al: looked in to asking depub
aria but that spec is no longer being worked on
... dont' remove the doc- from a role that exists
mk: adding them in depub and keeping them in the module might be better
al: yes but it looks like that
spec won't be updated
... doc- does tell you that it's related to publishing
mk: what does it take to revive that spec?
<jcraig> https://www.w3.org/TR/dpub-aam-1.0/
jn: It takes people to do it and I'm not sure they have a charter
<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to ask Aaron/Matt to give a little more context about the original use case considered for this. Was it Google Docs? and to say pullquote/doc-pullquote is an
jc: if we were to bring it in to
the core spec the reason would be because we feel these roles
would be more broadly applicable than just pub
... that implementation in webkit was trivial
al: we could expose the doc- prefix for the page header and footer
jc: the other thing I wanted to
mention was the additional context that this is for page header
and page footer.
... if we need to keep as doc pullquote , we could add doc
pageheader
... it maps to the higher level roles
... we post a 1.1 for that document and say this role maps to
this new sub-role
jn: I think that's correct and
the fact that these AAMs are frozen is a bad thing
... we need somewhere to document changes
... continue talking about it on the next call?
<jcraig> I think I heard MichaelC say "it's in the ARIA charter" to continue updates to the DPUB docs... That's correct isn't it
al: yes. i'm happy with header and footer roles
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154 of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Stephon/Stefan/ Succeeded: s/JN 7am-11am/JN: 7am-11am/ Succeeded: s/present StefanSchnabel/present+ StefanSchnabel/ Succeeded: s/cc: works for me/cm: works for me/ Succeeded: s/cm: the reason/jc: the reason/ Succeeded: s/jn 1150/jn: 1150/ Succeeded: s/jc: before naming/sina: before naming/ Succeeded: s/jc: for me/sina: for me/ Succeeded: s/jc: a reference /sina: a reference / FAILED: s/jc: before naming, /sina: before naming, / Succeeded: s/in these sub-roles and /in these sub-roles (chapter, pullquote) into the core aria spec and / Present: jongund MarkMccarthy MichaelC Joanmarie_Diggs jamesn carmacleod CurtBellew jcraig StefanSchnabel Jemma pkra Found Scribe: CurtBellew Inferring ScribeNick: CurtBellew WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth WARNING: No date found! Assuming today. (Hint: Specify the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.) Or specify the date like this: <dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002 People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]