<Detlev> Can't find participants in the Webex meeting...
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LaVX-RTaLQL0tN4G3NhOTlmj16swt0VzC7ssaAjqIwg/edit?usp=sharing
<Detlev_> Sorry I had disconnectd myself...
Detlev: I need to talk to Mike
about whether we want to have separation between swipes and
nondirectional dragging motions. I think the majority wanted to
go that way
... I still find it hard to separate the two – when you move
elements it will not require directionality but when you see on
the mobile phone you can't straight down and sideways because
it triggers scrolling – that's an edge case. Not sure whether
people would test things in the same way, not so
clear-cut
... sliders which are implemented with drag-and-drop
scripts
... for me it's not entirely clear
... needed note saying this is everything that Pointer gestures
isn't – nondirectional, not directly causing or executing a
function because you pick it up and then leave it at some point
and only thenat the end of the gesture you have some result.
All that could be different you could think of dragging as
would cause things to happen. It's not easy to pin down in a
clear way.
Jake: it's hard for us as a working group the rest of the world will not get their heads around it
Detlev: I think now we have a
situation where many people interpret pointer gestures in a way
which I quite like – slightly beyond what is strictly required.
For example if there's a menu at the top of the page you can
move side words with a gesture
... but also drag so would technically fall outside scope – it
would still be covered if there's nothing that allows you to
move it by single-point alternative activation
... that's fine, they are slightly stricter and in terms of
users it's good. So now dragging is closing the gap if you
like, so it doesn't really matter anymore it's more in issue of
where will they place it, dragging, pointer gestures or both.
But user concerns it's fairly straightforward. When you do
something with a pointer and move things about you have
single-point activation alternative
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LaVX-RTaLQL0tN4G3NhOTlmj16swt0VzC7ssaAjqIwg/edit?usp=sharing
Detlev: Find it hard to see the difference between operation and motion – all kinds of things could happen, drop targets opening up. I'd be okay with changing to operation
Discussing whether we have a glossary entry for swiping
Jake: if we had a definition he
might have a point but in this case I think you mean a dragging
motion
... if you don't mind changing it to operation
Kim: motion is Easier to picture but I'm okay with operation
Detlev: okay with changing. agree
that it's clearer, because dragging motion doesn't feel like
swiping, swiping is a straight and fast motion. I think
dragging motion Encapsulates pickup – But wouldn't want that to
hold it up, okay with operation
... you can't see a dragging operation for operation so that
becomes more difficult to change directly
Jake: so we keep the motion for now
Jennifer: would it be useful to have a definition for dragging motion?
Detlev: trouble is there are
various ways of implementing, The definition may get so
vague
... you want to hit the spot of the element you want to move
with dragging
Jennifer: that would be easier to define than swiping
Definition for dragging?
Detlev: may be hard to do. Easier
than swiping
... definition is basically the inverse of what we have for
pointer gestures now – requires an initial gesture to one point
than it can be free-form. Directionality is what I see as
distinctive for pointer gestures. The dragging gesture would go
the other way. Any action engaged in a pointer that does not
require direction would be dragging
... the harder thing is to work out whether something is
dragging or whether something is swiping.
Jake: if it's not clear by itself, we should make a definition just for clarity.
Detlev: we have a definition for
pointer gestures in the understanding, not a formal gesture in
the glossary
... I'm not in principle against it if there's a way of putting
it down
... more unusual techniques – you can Have an alternative way
of selecting thing, for example some kind of drop-down list
where you can select one thing and then have an arrow button
which you can click and then moves to the next silo, something
like that
... or you have a menu – if you have an element, you tap on it,
once you tap on it it grows arrows to all four sides of, down,
left, right. And then you can tap on the arrows and it will
jump by a certain distance – move sideways or up words until it
is where you Want it and then you tap on it again and it loses
its extensions
... survey monkey one technique, finite number of elements and
drop down list to select position – select position 4 and Moves
down or pressed Done and it gets reordered
think I looked at that
Detlev: don't press done, then you can get back to it. Selecting the numbers in this examples doesn't do anything in my browser. I thought if you pick five it should move down to the fifth position
Jake: it doesn't update
automatically
... but with a small tweak this could be a proper one
Detlev: this is a survey where you want to order things by preference. It's a good example, it's fairly straightforward. That can easily be put into a technique
Jake: it would be good to have a reset or update button
<JakeAbma> https://codepen.io/barrytsmith/pen/kfiqj
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H6OBXEJE-5r3_q2OKwDGhGyg5rcfV9kS9-Wthf-3fK8/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13QWLthBoEU6xuJQ4UrYOwuvJp0a42Z70JRjAsjtv1m4/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LaVX-RTaLQL0tN4G3NhOTlmj16swt0VzC7ssaAjqIwg/edit?usp=sharing
<scribe> ACTION: on Detlev to write up the dragging technique on ordering things by preference, code pen example that's similar to survey monkey
<trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/track/users>.
<scribe> ACTION: Detlev to write up the dragging technique on ordering things by preference, code pen example that's similar to survey monkey [11:53] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
<trackbot> Created ACTION-86 - Write up the dragging technique on ordering things by preference, code pen example that's similar to survey monkey [11:53] * trackbot is creating a new action. [on Detlev Fischer - due 2020-02-27].
Detlev: could also make it
keyboard accessible
... where do the techniques go
In the same Google doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LaVX-RTaLQL0tN4G3NhOTlmj16swt0VzC7ssaAjqIwg/edit?usp=sharing
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154 of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Default Present: Jennifer, JakeAbma, Kim_patch, Detlev Present: Jennifer JakeAbma Kim_patch Detlev Regrets: Kathy No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: Kim_patch Inferring Scribes: Kim_patch Found Date: 20 Feb 2020 WARNING: No person found for ACTION item: on detlev to write up the dragging technique on ordering things by preference, code pen example that's similar to survey monkey People with action items: detlev WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]