W3C

- DRAFT -

Revising W3C Process Community Group Teleconference

29 Jan 2020

Attendees

Present
jeff, wseltzer, dsinger, florian, cwilso, tzviya
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
wseltzer, fantasai

Contents


<wseltzer> scribenick: wseltzer

Agenda-bash

dsinger: any concern closing evergreen-tagged issues?

<dsinger> see https://github.com/w3c/w3process/labels/Evergreen

florian: did jeff want to keep 79 open?

jeff: yes

dsinger: let's take the Evergreen tag off 79

<dsinger> resolved to close all the Eevergreen issues except #79

RESOLVED

jeff: game plan for registries?

dsinger: I plan to read material from F&F
... and then come back

Pull Requests

<dsinger> Florian works through PRs https://github.com/w3c/w3process/pulls

<dsinger> looking at https://github.com/w3c/w3process/pull/365

florian: we've discussed that having extensible/expandable rec isn't a good term
... drop the term
... preserve the ability to state that recs do or don't change

<jeff> +1 to approve #365

dsinger: it retains the distiction but removes the word. is that helpful?

florian: it removes some text around chartering
... and just puts a sentence in the status section

<mchampion> +1 to the PR

dsinger: I could add the sentence at any state before Rec?

florian: yes
... and once at rec, you can't change without going back for review

plh: I sent email re workflow, doesn't affect this PR

<plh> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2020Jan/0014.html

dsinger: Propose to merge

<dsinger> agreed to merge

RESOLUTION: merge 365

<dsinger> see https://github.com/w3c/w3process/pull/364

florian: 364. Remove "Edited Recommendations"

<fantasai> +!

<fantasai> +1

<plh> +1

dsinger: it's a Recommendation. Let's label things with what they are, not how they got there

+1

dsinger: propose to merge 364

RESOLUTION: merge 364

<dsinger> see https://github.com/w3c/w3process/pull/364

<dsinger> see https://github.com/w3c/w3process/pull/363

florian: 363, remove "last call" text at CR

<dsinger> see <https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy-20170801/#sec-exclusion-with>

fantasai: we defined "Patent Review Draft" in Process
... remove this stray reference
... and then update in the PRD section

<fantasai> See https://w3c.github.io/w3process/#patent-review-drafts

<fantasai> "This Process defines certain Recommendation Track publications as Patent Review Drafts. These correspond to the “Last Call Working Draft” of the Patent Policy [PATENT-POLICY]."

florian: suggest we skip this for now, in deference to Patent Policy

fantasai: I think this is a simple change

dsinger: we'll have to do a consistency pass with Process and PP
... leave it for now

<dsinger> see https://github.com/w3c/w3process/issues/346

<fantasai> fantasai: Nevermind, I misread it

florian: issue 346

<fantasai> fantasai: yes, need to keep 363 open until PP is updated

dsinger: close with no action?

<mchampion> 0 I won’t lay down in the road

cwilso: I also think this direction is a mistake

florian: this issue is saying go do evergreen
... is that what you want?

jeff: I disagree with Florian's interpretation

dsinger: perhaps the issue proponents should gather to discuss shared concern

jeff: we can just leave the issue open

dsinger: we can leave it open, without committing to address in Process 2020
... any other PRs or issues that need looking at

florian: not from my POV

Diffs

<florian> https://github.com/w3c/w3process

<dsinger> here for ref is the ordinary DIFF <https://services.w3.org/htmldiff?doc1=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2019%2FProcess-20190301%2F&doc2=https%3A%2F%2Fw3c.github.io%2Fw3process%2F>

florian: look at the README
... it links some process diffs
... in sequence
... go through the diagonal of that table

<fantasai> Florian, can you copy this to https://www.w3.org/wiki/Process2020#Process_Document_Edits?

jeff: we need high-level explainers

<fantasai> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Process2020#Process_Document_Edits

<fantasai> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Process2020

jeff: why are we doing this, what are the changes in corresponding docs

<fantasai> https://w3c.github.io/w3process/#changes

dsinger: get a draft summary for next CG call

tzviya: let's keep CEPC and its changelog separate
... even as we roll them out together
... don't ask for feedback in the same threads

jeff: so we send multiple emails on March 1?

tzviya: yes

florian: do we have something to replace Process obsolete link?

tzviya: disciplinary procedures under control of Director aren't covered in PWE

florian: My preference is still to delete that stale link

dsinger: I'd also like to remove stale link

https://github.com/w3c/w3process/pull/274

tzviya: fine with me

dsinger: what else do we need to discuss today?

<Zakim> jeff, you wanted to discuss registries

florian: I'll also update disposition of comments
... for things still open, should I tentatively mark as deferred?

dsinger: we have a massive cleanup to do

florian: those we moved to 2021, I'll mark as deferred
... and come with proposal for others

dsinger: back to Registries

jeff: can those engaged with the issue reach offline consensus?
... but what happens if they don't
... should we then just move Registries to 2021?

florian: "I can't realistically object to not doing something"
... but think we can do better
... Registries are new, won't break any existing thing
... even if doesn't get 100% right, we could roll it out without damaging existing things
... and then roll back later
... but if that doesn't get consensus, we shouldn't hold up

wseltzer: opportunity costs of doing something half-way,
... so rather just wait
... if we don't get consensus now

plh: don't hear a group pushing for immediate action
... don't rush it

dsinger: when I originally drafted, I aimed for minimal rules, see what develops as practice, and patch later
... start least-restrictive
... I think the draft goes the other way, aiming at a set of rules that could be relaxed
... 2 approaches

mchampion: +1 dsinger, start with experiement

<fantasai> s/experiment/experiment/

mchampion: if you can experiment without changing process, that's best
... there's already a lot changing

jeff: if we can get consensus, great
... if we can't, don't raise the likelihood of FO to P2020

fantasai: agree with most of what's been said
... in terms of exeriementation without changing process, many groups have been doing
... those frustrated are those who want something published on W3C
... official

dsinger: we've talked before about experimental process addendas
... might adopt an experimental addendum

florian: experiment could work, though wouldn't satisfy those who want formal status
... also can use this as a recruiting tool for Process CG
... if you don't like it, join us

mchampion: what do people want? Process, or publishing on /TR?

florian: they have been doing notes, they want something official

<plh> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2020Jan/0014.html

plh: I sent an email ^
... I'd like to get drafts of these docs

florian: looks reasonable

<fantasai> " Identify the specific proposed changes under review. "

plh: lmk if you have input

fantasai: ^
... mechanics of identifying specific changes could be tricky

dsinger: AOB

<fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai

jeff: We've had some good discussions with PSIG
... including a good meeting on Monday
... making progress through PP
... If your company wants to get involved, contact wendy

<dsinger> actions: be ready to approve in Feb 12th call; review PLH email; prepare the explainer, DoC, etc.; review registries and try to find a way out

<scribe> Scribenick: wseltzer

<fantasai> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Process2020#Process_Document_Edits

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

  1. merge 365
  2. merge 364
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.152 (CVS log)
$Date: 2020/02/12 02:26:22 $