16:06:56 RRSAgent has joined #tt 16:06:56 logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/11/21-tt-irc 16:07:01 Zakim has joined #tt 16:07:10 rrsagent, this is TTWG 16:07:10 I'm logging. I don't understand 'this is TTWG', nigel. Try /msg RRSAgent help 16:07:23 Meeting: TTWG Teleconference 16:08:01 Present: Philippe, Andreas, Atsushi, Gary, Glenn, Pierre, Nigel 16:09:05 Regrets: Cyril 16:09:12 Chair: Nigel, Gary 16:09:14 scribe: nigel 16:09:28 Topic: This meeting 16:09:53 Log: https://www.w3.org/2019/11/21-tt-irc 16:10:00 Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/79 16:11:04 Nigel: [iterates through agenda] 16:11:08 .. Any other business? 16:11:17 Glenn: I'd like to chat about starting a CR for TTML2 2nd Ed 16:11:37 Nigel: Let's cover that in the publications timeline bit 16:11:55 Pierre: I'd like to tackle the IMSC 1.2 FPWD publication 16:11:59 Nigel: OK 16:12:06 .. Anyone else? 16:12:20 Topic: IMSC 1.2 FPWD Publication 16:12:24 Philippe: I have an update. 16:12:37 .. Unfortunately because you guys have an ongoing Charter and I ran into trouble myself 16:12:50 .. I downgraded getting the Director to approve the new Charter. My fault, I apologise for that. 16:13:04 .. Unfortunately as Thierry reminded us we are not supposed to do a Call for Exclusions while a Charter is not 16:13:08 .. approved by the Director. 16:13:23 .. I approved the publication for the FPWD but the Charter won't get approved until Wednesday next week. 16:13:38 .. Then the publication would be Thursday next week. 16:13:57 q+ 16:14:07 Pierre: It's fine. Can we make sure that this time it is going to hold? 16:14:12 .. For instance who is going to handle the publication? 16:14:17 .. There was confusion in the past. 16:15:04 Philippe: Atsushi will look after this publication. 16:15:28 Pierre: Please could you send an email explaining the steps and indicating if anything is missing to proceed with publication? 16:15:41 Atsushi: Yes, I will update my checklist and send it. 16:15:52 Pierre: I'm trying to avoid hearing next Thursday that we're missing some steps. 16:16:01 Philippe: I understand. You guys know what you're doing, you should do it. 16:16:08 ack at 16:16:23 Atsushi: I think we need to send the request for FPWD to sys team? 16:16:43 Philippe: To Web Rec. Prep the document yourself and ask Pierre to double check, or Pierre could prepare it. 16:17:09 Atsushi: For publication request I was told I need to send a request to public-publish to sys team 16:17:11 webreq@w3.org 16:17:24 Philippe: Send it to webreq - the transition document explains the process. 16:17:32 .. I will remind you where to find the information. 16:17:54 Pierre: Can we set up a meeting tomorrow afternoon to review that live? I'm already thinking we're not going to make it. 16:18:03 Philippe: Can we do it next week? 16:18:08 Pierre: It might be too late already. 16:18:17 Philippe: As long as we can send it no later than Wednesday then we're good. 16:18:50 .. Can we do it after the call after it is adjourned? 16:19:17 Pierre; I have another meeting after. 16:19:22 https://www.w3.org/Guide/transitions?profile=FPWD 16:19:26 Nigel: If we can do it in 10 minutes lets do it now. 16:19:35 Philippe: There's a pointer. 16:19:43 1. prepare for publishing on Thursday November 26 16:19:43 pal has joined #tt 16:21:06 Atsushi: Nigel sent a two line description 16:21:09 Nigel: Yes I did 16:21:27 2. once it passes, send an email to webreq@w3.org for them on Thursday. give the pointer https://github.com/w3c/transitions/issues/180 16:21:27 Philippe: I've made clear that the only blocker is the Charter, so I'll give you a pointer to the documentation to that 16:21:43 most of required format checks have done: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2019Nov/0013.html 16:22:10 .. For Atsushi's benefit, here's an example in webreq of a previous example FPWD. 16:22:12 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Team/webreq/2019Oct/0032.html example of FPWD webreq 16:22:35 Atsushi: I want to say I know how to do this. 16:22:45 Philippe: Anything else you need? Is this clear enough? 16:23:03 .. Please copy to webreq. Pierre, I encourage you to check Atsushi's work and not wait until next Thursday. 16:23:16 Philippe: Please double check the link he gives is the proper document. 16:23:36 Pierre: Is this a zip file, a pointer to a branch? What do you expect to give to webreq? 16:23:56 Atsushi: I will point to a URL to our website to them. 16:24:02 Pierre: I can't upload to /TR 16:24:20 Philippe: Atsushi will upload it, and send a link for you to check that it is indeed the proper document, a double check. 16:24:27 .. I trust Atsushi to do the right thing. 16:24:36 Atsushi: I will send it next Wednesday 16:25:28 Nigel: Can I suggest it gets uploaded tomorrow or Monday so we can check it in advance of the request on Wednesday? 16:25:41 Pierre: When do you think you can have it in /TR Atsushi? 16:25:50 Atsushi: I can do it by this weekend, before Monday. 16:26:00 Pierre: OK so you need me to update the publication date on the FPWD branch? 16:26:09 Atsushi: I can upload after changing locally, but that would help me. 16:26:16 .. Uploading the PR is of course better. 16:26:26 Pierre: OK so you'll pull everything from the imsc1.2-fpwd branch? 16:26:32 Atsushi: Yes 16:26:43 Pierre: OK I will update that branch right now for a publication date of next Thursday 16:26:48 .. Any other change you'd like? 16:27:02 Atsushi: I don't see any other changes required. 16:27:11 Nigel: When will the pubrules and link checkers get run on it? 16:27:18 Pierre: I ran them in the past so they should be ok 16:27:29 Atsushi: I ran them earlier in the month so they should be fine. 16:27:52 Philippe: All good? If things get delayed further put me back in the loop. 16:28:17 Nigel: That feels like all we need to do. 16:28:41 Philippe: The Charter will be released on Wednesday or Thursday. 16:28:59 Nigel: Will the end date be extended to the 2 years? 16:29:16 Philippe: I will update it to be 2 years from the publication date to reflect the proper date. 16:29:27 .. I made some changes earlier this week and sent them to the AC. 16:30:27 Nigel: The one change we are not making is in response to David Singer/Apple's comment. He wanted to remove 16:30:40 .. "online" from "online media". I thought it was a good change but don't want to block on it. 16:30:53 Nigel: Any views? 16:31:01 Pierre: Whatever gets us approved faster? 16:31:09 Nigel: It won't make any difference for anyone. 16:31:21 Philippe: It won't block anything. 16:31:45 Nigel: Is it more likely to get blocked if we don't make the change? 16:32:08 Philippe: Do I have permission to make the change if it does block it. 16:32:15 Nigel: Any objections? 16:32:33 Pierre: It was originally put in to avoid overlapping with broadcast media. 16:32:46 .. My inclination would be not to make the change. If there's an objection then keep it as is. 16:33:28 Nigel: It's overtaken by events in the sense that there is a broadcast format for TTML 16:33:41 .. I propose that we do the AC review comment and remove the word "online". 16:33:44 Andreas: I agree 16:33:52 Philippe: OK I will let the AC Review group know. 16:34:19 Nigel: Just to confirm no objections to removing "online" from "online media"? 16:34:22 group: no objections 16:34:27 Philippe: OK thank you 16:34:37 RESOLUTION: Change the Charter wording "online media" to "media" 16:35:09 Topic: Publications Timelines 16:35:15 Nigel: This needs to include TTML2 CR 16:35:34 Glenn: There are no issues or PRs open against TTML2 2nd Ed so I'd like to proceed with preparing the CR version. 16:36:01 .. At this point it is basically a strictly editorial no spec change task to swap out the entities dtd. 16:36:11 .. The only issue is what date should I prepare it for. 16:36:19 .. Do we need to issue a CfC or not? 16:36:34 .. If we put a 10 day CfC then the earliest would be Dec 5 if we allow 2 weeks from today. 16:36:51 .. If I prepare that document today what date should I put in for publication? 16:37:11 PROPOSAL: Publish CR of TTML2 2nd Edition 16:37:17 Nigel: Any comments or objections? 16:37:36 group: [none] 16:37:50 RESOLUTION: Publish CR of TTML2 2nd Edition 16:38:22 Nigel: The decision policy review period will expire on Dec 5 16:38:29 Philippe: We can send a transition request on that day 16:38:37 .. Then the earliest publication date would be Dec 12. 16:38:40 https://w3c.github.io/spec-releases/milestones/?cr=2019-12-12 16:38:45 Nigel: I think that's your answer Glenn 16:38:54 Philippe: Who will prepare the transition request? 16:39:00 https://github.com/w3c/transitions/issues/new/choose 16:39:42 Nigel: I would like to ask the team contact to do this. Atsushi do you need some words for this? 16:40:03 Glenn: This is a CR for a revised Rec? 16:40:16 Philippe: The CR-New template is used, this will be an Amended Rec 16:40:43 .. We just called it Amended as a sub-category - it still says CR at the top 16:40:50 Glenn: But it doesn't go through FPWD process 16:40:59 Philippe: You still have to demonstrate WR as part of that 16:41:18 https://www.w3.org/2019/Process-20190301/#revised-rec 16:41:52 Nigel: Wait up, we haven't had HR comments back from all the groups yet, and we might need to wait up to 3 months 16:41:56 .. according to our Charter. 16:43:08 Nigel: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/75 says we began HR on 16th Oct 16:43:22 Philippe: So we can publish CR on Jan 17 unless we get HR responses earlier. 16:43:53 .. You should follow up on your HR requests saying we think we're ready, do you mind if we publish? 16:43:57 Nigel: OK that's an action for me 16:44:20 Glenn: As a follow-up would it be prudent for me to go ahead and prepare a draft of the CR document itself and at 16:44:33 .. least have it available in the GitHub repo? 16:44:44 https://w3c.github.io/spec-releases/milestones/?cr=2020-01-28 16:44:48 Nigel: yes, if you can leave it in an unmerged PR. 16:44:58 Philippe: Earliest date if no positive responses is Jan 28 16:45:15 Pierre: I like Glenn's suggestion. We should set everything up for Jan 28 but in the meantime we are completely 16:45:22 .. ready and it will happen automatically. 16:45:34 Philippe: Jan 28 assuming transition request no later than Jan 21 16:45:50 Glenn: OK I'll approve that and then if we get full approval we can change the dates and move it faster. 16:45:55 Philippe: That sounds good 16:45:59 Glenn: I'll do that then 16:46:14 Philippe: Are you ready to go to PR too? 16:46:23 Glenn: We have all the tests, so we need to make an implementation report 16:46:39 Philippe: You need a draft IR for the transition request. Because this is for amending, the Director would expect to 16:46:45 .. see an actual IR with something in it. 16:47:02 .. By the way Process 2020 has a proposal allowing Amended Rec without going all the way back to CR 16:47:15 Nigel: Have we got enough implementations? 16:47:35 Glenn: Yes I think we're in good shape there. I know at least one implementation, I need to check on a 2nd one. 16:47:44 Philippe: Do you expect to retire the previous Rec 16:47:52 Glenn: The 1st Ed will be marked as obsolete 16:48:10 Philippe: In the SOTD make it clear what you expect. We don't want to ask AC too many questions. If it is in the SOTD 16:48:23 .. then it's good enough. When we publish the Rec we automatically implement whatever was in there. 16:48:34 https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml/all/ 16:48:40 .. Reminder that there is a story to tell, which is at the above link 16:48:56 .. That's everything we know about TTML from /TR. Tell us what you expect to find there when you publish as Rec. 16:49:12 Glenn: This doesn't change TTML1 3rd Ed. 16:49:59 Chairs dashboard: https://www.w3.org/PM/Groups/chairboard.html?gid=34314 16:50:05 Nigel: I don't think there are any other publications coming down the line in the immediate feature. 16:52:50 .. For the modules and the AD profile of TTML2 I don't think any is ready to go. 16:53:05 .. My time is more squeezed than normal at the moment and I expect to do the AD profile early next year and then 16:53:11 .. move on to the Live extensions. 16:53:31 .. Any timelines or progress plans for any other modules? 16:53:39 group: no 16:53:56 Nigel: I will assume we are not ready then until someone says we are! 16:54:00 https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-imsc/all/ (for IMSC) 16:54:24 Topic: Holiday period meetings 16:54:48 Nigel: I propose to cancel our calls on 26th Dec and 2nd Jan. 16:55:08 group: quiet acceptance 16:56:12 Glenn: 28th Nov is a holiday in the US, regrets from me for that day. 16:56:56 Nigel: Please add regrets to the GitHub issue for our meeting on 28th, and I'll make a call on cancelling it if there are 16:56:57 .. too many. 16:57:41 Pierre: Re the 28th, any particular urgent agenda items? 16:57:46 Nigel: Not that I'm aware of now 16:58:08 Pierre: I will not send regrets just in case there is an issue with IMSC 1.2 16:58:16 Nigel: OK by default we will go ahead next week 16:58:31 Pierre: If IMSC 1.2 goes ahead with publication and Glenn is absent then it will be hard to make any other progress 16:58:33 Nigel: I agree 16:58:47 .. As well as sending regrets, please send agenda items. 16:58:53 Topic: Process 2020 16:59:05 Philippe: We've been having conversations in the AB about Process 2020. 16:59:16 .. We're getting feedback that it is hard to understand, including in the AB. 16:59:23 .. We need to communicate Process 2020 and understand it. 16:59:30 .. How much does this WG care about this subject. 17:00:07 Nigel: If you're saying you're aware that comms about 2020 have not been clear then it's unfair to ask if we care! 17:00:24 Philippe: We did a presentation at TPAC - if you want a dedicated session and are interested then I'm happy to 17:00:38 .. help this group. We will do a consultation in January, but not tailored to the TTWG. 17:02:48 Nigel: [tries to summarise some key points that would be relevant to TTWG in Process 2020] 17:03:07 Pierre: I've not been studying it closely. It would be good to have an explainer of the practical implications for this group. 17:03:17 .. Is there a white paper that explains the basic differences? 17:03:28 Philippe: Yes but it's a long one. We don't have anything tailored to this group. 17:03:45 Pierre: Please make that white paper available to this group when it is published. 17:04:02 Philippe: I'll add a link to the explainer. Feel free to add an agenda item and ask me to attend a future meeting. 17:04:21 .. Some groups don't see versioning as important, but you guys do. Not all groups are interested in Living Standards. 17:06:16 atai2 has left #tt 17:06:39 Nigel: OK we'll consider that again when there's an explainer available and maybe come back to you. 17:06:42 Topic: Meeting close 17:06:57 Nigel: Thanks everyone, we're a little over time. Plan for next week is to go ahead, to be reviewed when we have a 17:07:11 .. clearer idea of the regrets and the agenda items. [adjourns meeting] 17:07:15 rrsagent, make minutes 17:07:15 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/11/21-tt-minutes.html nigel 17:07:20 rrsagent, make logs public 17:08:51 scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 17:08:54 rrsagent, make minutes v2 17:08:54 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/11/21-tt-minutes.html nigel 17:09:57 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 17:09:58 rrsagent, make minutes v2 17:09:58 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/11/21-tt-minutes.html nigel 18:26:45 Zakim has left #tt 19:43:10 plh has joined #tt