IRC log of tt on 2019-11-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/11/21-tt-irc
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16:07:10 [nigel]
rrsagent, this is TTWG
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I'm logging. I don't understand 'this is TTWG', nigel. Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:07:23 [nigel]
Meeting: TTWG Teleconference
16:08:01 [nigel]
Present: Philippe, Andreas, Atsushi, Gary, Glenn, Pierre, Nigel
16:09:05 [nigel]
Regrets: Cyril
16:09:12 [nigel]
Chair: Nigel, Gary
16:09:14 [nigel]
scribe: nigel
16:09:28 [nigel]
Topic: This meeting
16:09:53 [nigel]
Log: https://www.w3.org/2019/11/21-tt-irc
16:10:00 [nigel]
Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/79
16:11:04 [nigel]
Nigel: [iterates through agenda]
16:11:08 [nigel]
.. Any other business?
16:11:17 [nigel]
Glenn: I'd like to chat about starting a CR for TTML2 2nd Ed
16:11:37 [nigel]
Nigel: Let's cover that in the publications timeline bit
16:11:55 [nigel]
Pierre: I'd like to tackle the IMSC 1.2 FPWD publication
16:11:59 [nigel]
Nigel: OK
16:12:06 [nigel]
.. Anyone else?
16:12:20 [nigel]
Topic: IMSC 1.2 FPWD Publication
16:12:24 [nigel]
Philippe: I have an update.
16:12:37 [nigel]
.. Unfortunately because you guys have an ongoing Charter and I ran into trouble myself
16:12:50 [nigel]
.. I downgraded getting the Director to approve the new Charter. My fault, I apologise for that.
16:13:04 [nigel]
.. Unfortunately as Thierry reminded us we are not supposed to do a Call for Exclusions while a Charter is not
16:13:08 [nigel]
.. approved by the Director.
16:13:23 [nigel]
.. I approved the publication for the FPWD but the Charter won't get approved until Wednesday next week.
16:13:38 [nigel]
.. Then the publication would be Thursday next week.
16:13:57 [atsushi]
q+
16:14:07 [nigel]
Pierre: It's fine. Can we make sure that this time it is going to hold?
16:14:12 [nigel]
.. For instance who is going to handle the publication?
16:14:17 [nigel]
.. There was confusion in the past.
16:15:04 [nigel]
Philippe: Atsushi will look after this publication.
16:15:28 [nigel]
Pierre: Please could you send an email explaining the steps and indicating if anything is missing to proceed with publication?
16:15:41 [nigel]
Atsushi: Yes, I will update my checklist and send it.
16:15:52 [nigel]
Pierre: I'm trying to avoid hearing next Thursday that we're missing some steps.
16:16:01 [nigel]
Philippe: I understand. You guys know what you're doing, you should do it.
16:16:08 [nigel]
ack at
16:16:23 [nigel]
Atsushi: I think we need to send the request for FPWD to sys team?
16:16:43 [nigel]
Philippe: To Web Rec. Prep the document yourself and ask Pierre to double check, or Pierre could prepare it.
16:17:09 [nigel]
Atsushi: For publication request I was told I need to send a request to public-publish to sys team
16:17:11 [plh]
webreq@w3.org
16:17:24 [nigel]
Philippe: Send it to webreq - the transition document explains the process.
16:17:32 [nigel]
.. I will remind you where to find the information.
16:17:54 [nigel]
Pierre: Can we set up a meeting tomorrow afternoon to review that live? I'm already thinking we're not going to make it.
16:18:03 [nigel]
Philippe: Can we do it next week?
16:18:08 [nigel]
Pierre: It might be too late already.
16:18:17 [nigel]
Philippe: As long as we can send it no later than Wednesday then we're good.
16:18:50 [nigel]
.. Can we do it after the call after it is adjourned?
16:19:17 [nigel]
Pierre; I have another meeting after.
16:19:22 [plh]
https://www.w3.org/Guide/transitions?profile=FPWD
16:19:26 [nigel]
Nigel: If we can do it in 10 minutes lets do it now.
16:19:35 [nigel]
Philippe: There's a pointer.
16:19:43 [plh]
1. prepare for publishing on Thursday November 26
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16:21:06 [nigel]
Atsushi: Nigel sent a two line description
16:21:09 [nigel]
Nigel: Yes I did
16:21:27 [plh]
2. once it passes, send an email to webreq@w3.org for them on Thursday. give the pointer https://github.com/w3c/transitions/issues/180
16:21:27 [nigel]
Philippe: I've made clear that the only blocker is the Charter, so I'll give you a pointer to the documentation to that
16:21:43 [atsushi]
most of required format checks have done: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2019Nov/0013.html
16:22:10 [nigel]
.. For Atsushi's benefit, here's an example in webreq of a previous example FPWD.
16:22:12 [plh]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Team/webreq/2019Oct/0032.html example of FPWD webreq
16:22:35 [nigel]
Atsushi: I want to say I know how to do this.
16:22:45 [nigel]
Philippe: Anything else you need? Is this clear enough?
16:23:03 [nigel]
.. Please copy to webreq. Pierre, I encourage you to check Atsushi's work and not wait until next Thursday.
16:23:16 [nigel]
Philippe: Please double check the link he gives is the proper document.
16:23:36 [nigel]
Pierre: Is this a zip file, a pointer to a branch? What do you expect to give to webreq?
16:23:56 [nigel]
Atsushi: I will point to a URL to our website to them.
16:24:02 [nigel]
Pierre: I can't upload to /TR
16:24:20 [nigel]
Philippe: Atsushi will upload it, and send a link for you to check that it is indeed the proper document, a double check.
16:24:27 [nigel]
.. I trust Atsushi to do the right thing.
16:24:36 [nigel]
Atsushi: I will send it next Wednesday
16:25:28 [nigel]
Nigel: Can I suggest it gets uploaded tomorrow or Monday so we can check it in advance of the request on Wednesday?
16:25:41 [nigel]
Pierre: When do you think you can have it in /TR Atsushi?
16:25:50 [nigel]
Atsushi: I can do it by this weekend, before Monday.
16:26:00 [nigel]
Pierre: OK so you need me to update the publication date on the FPWD branch?
16:26:09 [nigel]
Atsushi: I can upload after changing locally, but that would help me.
16:26:16 [nigel]
.. Uploading the PR is of course better.
16:26:26 [nigel]
Pierre: OK so you'll pull everything from the imsc1.2-fpwd branch?
16:26:32 [nigel]
Atsushi: Yes
16:26:43 [nigel]
Pierre: OK I will update that branch right now for a publication date of next Thursday
16:26:48 [nigel]
.. Any other change you'd like?
16:27:02 [nigel]
Atsushi: I don't see any other changes required.
16:27:11 [nigel]
Nigel: When will the pubrules and link checkers get run on it?
16:27:18 [nigel]
Pierre: I ran them in the past so they should be ok
16:27:29 [nigel]
Atsushi: I ran them earlier in the month so they should be fine.
16:27:52 [nigel]
Philippe: All good? If things get delayed further put me back in the loop.
16:28:17 [nigel]
Nigel: That feels like all we need to do.
16:28:41 [nigel]
Philippe: The Charter will be released on Wednesday or Thursday.
16:28:59 [nigel]
Nigel: Will the end date be extended to the 2 years?
16:29:16 [nigel]
Philippe: I will update it to be 2 years from the publication date to reflect the proper date.
16:29:27 [nigel]
.. I made some changes earlier this week and sent them to the AC.
16:30:27 [nigel]
Nigel: The one change we are not making is in response to David Singer/Apple's comment. He wanted to remove
16:30:40 [nigel]
.. "online" from "online media". I thought it was a good change but don't want to block on it.
16:30:53 [nigel]
Nigel: Any views?
16:31:01 [nigel]
Pierre: Whatever gets us approved faster?
16:31:09 [nigel]
Nigel: It won't make any difference for anyone.
16:31:21 [nigel]
Philippe: It won't block anything.
16:31:45 [nigel]
Nigel: Is it more likely to get blocked if we don't make the change?
16:32:08 [nigel]
Philippe: Do I have permission to make the change if it does block it.
16:32:15 [nigel]
Nigel: Any objections?
16:32:33 [nigel]
Pierre: It was originally put in to avoid overlapping with broadcast media.
16:32:46 [nigel]
.. My inclination would be not to make the change. If there's an objection then keep it as is.
16:33:28 [nigel]
Nigel: It's overtaken by events in the sense that there is a broadcast format for TTML
16:33:41 [nigel]
.. I propose that we do the AC review comment and remove the word "online".
16:33:44 [nigel]
Andreas: I agree
16:33:52 [nigel]
Philippe: OK I will let the AC Review group know.
16:34:19 [nigel]
Nigel: Just to confirm no objections to removing "online" from "online media"?
16:34:22 [nigel]
group: no objections
16:34:27 [nigel]
Philippe: OK thank you
16:34:37 [nigel]
RESOLUTION: Change the Charter wording "online media" to "media"
16:35:09 [nigel]
Topic: Publications Timelines
16:35:15 [nigel]
Nigel: This needs to include TTML2 CR
16:35:34 [nigel]
Glenn: There are no issues or PRs open against TTML2 2nd Ed so I'd like to proceed with preparing the CR version.
16:36:01 [nigel]
.. At this point it is basically a strictly editorial no spec change task to swap out the entities dtd.
16:36:11 [nigel]
.. The only issue is what date should I prepare it for.
16:36:19 [nigel]
.. Do we need to issue a CfC or not?
16:36:34 [nigel]
.. If we put a 10 day CfC then the earliest would be Dec 5 if we allow 2 weeks from today.
16:36:51 [nigel]
.. If I prepare that document today what date should I put in for publication?
16:37:11 [nigel]
PROPOSAL: Publish CR of TTML2 2nd Edition
16:37:17 [nigel]
Nigel: Any comments or objections?
16:37:36 [nigel]
group: [none]
16:37:50 [nigel]
RESOLUTION: Publish CR of TTML2 2nd Edition
16:38:22 [nigel]
Nigel: The decision policy review period will expire on Dec 5
16:38:29 [nigel]
Philippe: We can send a transition request on that day
16:38:37 [nigel]
.. Then the earliest publication date would be Dec 12.
16:38:40 [plh]
https://w3c.github.io/spec-releases/milestones/?cr=2019-12-12
16:38:45 [nigel]
Nigel: I think that's your answer Glenn
16:38:54 [nigel]
Philippe: Who will prepare the transition request?
16:39:00 [plh]
https://github.com/w3c/transitions/issues/new/choose
16:39:42 [nigel]
Nigel: I would like to ask the team contact to do this. Atsushi do you need some words for this?
16:40:03 [nigel]
Glenn: This is a CR for a revised Rec?
16:40:16 [nigel]
Philippe: The CR-New template is used, this will be an Amended Rec
16:40:43 [nigel]
.. We just called it Amended as a sub-category - it still says CR at the top
16:40:50 [nigel]
Glenn: But it doesn't go through FPWD process
16:40:59 [nigel]
Philippe: You still have to demonstrate WR as part of that
16:41:18 [plh]
https://www.w3.org/2019/Process-20190301/#revised-rec
16:41:52 [nigel]
Nigel: Wait up, we haven't had HR comments back from all the groups yet, and we might need to wait up to 3 months
16:41:56 [nigel]
.. according to our Charter.
16:43:08 [nigel]
Nigel: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/75 says we began HR on 16th Oct
16:43:22 [nigel]
Philippe: So we can publish CR on Jan 17 unless we get HR responses earlier.
16:43:53 [nigel]
.. You should follow up on your HR requests saying we think we're ready, do you mind if we publish?
16:43:57 [nigel]
Nigel: OK that's an action for me
16:44:20 [nigel]
Glenn: As a follow-up would it be prudent for me to go ahead and prepare a draft of the CR document itself and at
16:44:33 [nigel]
.. least have it available in the GitHub repo?
16:44:44 [plh]
https://w3c.github.io/spec-releases/milestones/?cr=2020-01-28
16:44:48 [nigel]
Nigel: yes, if you can leave it in an unmerged PR.
16:44:58 [nigel]
Philippe: Earliest date if no positive responses is Jan 28
16:45:15 [nigel]
Pierre: I like Glenn's suggestion. We should set everything up for Jan 28 but in the meantime we are completely
16:45:22 [nigel]
.. ready and it will happen automatically.
16:45:34 [nigel]
Philippe: Jan 28 assuming transition request no later than Jan 21
16:45:50 [nigel]
Glenn: OK I'll approve that and then if we get full approval we can change the dates and move it faster.
16:45:55 [nigel]
Philippe: That sounds good
16:45:59 [nigel]
Glenn: I'll do that then
16:46:14 [nigel]
Philippe: Are you ready to go to PR too?
16:46:23 [nigel]
Glenn: We have all the tests, so we need to make an implementation report
16:46:39 [nigel]
Philippe: You need a draft IR for the transition request. Because this is for amending, the Director would expect to
16:46:45 [nigel]
.. see an actual IR with something in it.
16:47:02 [nigel]
.. By the way Process 2020 has a proposal allowing Amended Rec without going all the way back to CR
16:47:15 [nigel]
Nigel: Have we got enough implementations?
16:47:35 [nigel]
Glenn: Yes I think we're in good shape there. I know at least one implementation, I need to check on a 2nd one.
16:47:44 [nigel]
Philippe: Do you expect to retire the previous Rec
16:47:52 [nigel]
Glenn: The 1st Ed will be marked as obsolete
16:48:10 [nigel]
Philippe: In the SOTD make it clear what you expect. We don't want to ask AC too many questions. If it is in the SOTD
16:48:23 [nigel]
.. then it's good enough. When we publish the Rec we automatically implement whatever was in there.
16:48:34 [plh]
https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml/all/
16:48:40 [nigel]
.. Reminder that there is a story to tell, which is at the above link
16:48:56 [nigel]
.. That's everything we know about TTML from /TR. Tell us what you expect to find there when you publish as Rec.
16:49:12 [nigel]
Glenn: This doesn't change TTML1 3rd Ed.
16:49:59 [plh]
Chairs dashboard: https://www.w3.org/PM/Groups/chairboard.html?gid=34314
16:50:05 [nigel]
Nigel: I don't think there are any other publications coming down the line in the immediate feature.
16:52:50 [nigel]
.. For the modules and the AD profile of TTML2 I don't think any is ready to go.
16:53:05 [nigel]
.. My time is more squeezed than normal at the moment and I expect to do the AD profile early next year and then
16:53:11 [nigel]
.. move on to the Live extensions.
16:53:31 [nigel]
.. Any timelines or progress plans for any other modules?
16:53:39 [nigel]
group: no
16:53:56 [nigel]
Nigel: I will assume we are not ready then until someone says we are!
16:54:00 [plh]
https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-imsc/all/ (for IMSC)
16:54:24 [nigel]
Topic: Holiday period meetings
16:54:48 [nigel]
Nigel: I propose to cancel our calls on 26th Dec and 2nd Jan.
16:55:08 [nigel]
group: quiet acceptance
16:56:12 [nigel]
Glenn: 28th Nov is a holiday in the US, regrets from me for that day.
16:56:56 [nigel]
Nigel: Please add regrets to the GitHub issue for our meeting on 28th, and I'll make a call on cancelling it if there are
16:56:57 [nigel]
.. too many.
16:57:41 [nigel]
Pierre: Re the 28th, any particular urgent agenda items?
16:57:46 [nigel]
Nigel: Not that I'm aware of now
16:58:08 [nigel]
Pierre: I will not send regrets just in case there is an issue with IMSC 1.2
16:58:16 [nigel]
Nigel: OK by default we will go ahead next week
16:58:31 [nigel]
Pierre: If IMSC 1.2 goes ahead with publication and Glenn is absent then it will be hard to make any other progress
16:58:33 [nigel]
Nigel: I agree
16:58:47 [nigel]
.. As well as sending regrets, please send agenda items.
16:58:53 [nigel]
Topic: Process 2020
16:59:05 [nigel]
Philippe: We've been having conversations in the AB about Process 2020.
16:59:16 [nigel]
.. We're getting feedback that it is hard to understand, including in the AB.
16:59:23 [nigel]
.. We need to communicate Process 2020 and understand it.
16:59:30 [nigel]
.. How much does this WG care about this subject.
17:00:07 [nigel]
Nigel: If you're saying you're aware that comms about 2020 have not been clear then it's unfair to ask if we care!
17:00:24 [nigel]
Philippe: We did a presentation at TPAC - if you want a dedicated session and are interested then I'm happy to
17:00:38 [nigel]
.. help this group. We will do a consultation in January, but not tailored to the TTWG.
17:02:48 [nigel]
Nigel: [tries to summarise some key points that would be relevant to TTWG in Process 2020]
17:03:07 [nigel]
Pierre: I've not been studying it closely. It would be good to have an explainer of the practical implications for this group.
17:03:17 [nigel]
.. Is there a white paper that explains the basic differences?
17:03:28 [nigel]
Philippe: Yes but it's a long one. We don't have anything tailored to this group.
17:03:45 [nigel]
Pierre: Please make that white paper available to this group when it is published.
17:04:02 [nigel]
Philippe: I'll add a link to the explainer. Feel free to add an agenda item and ask me to attend a future meeting.
17:04:21 [nigel]
.. Some groups don't see versioning as important, but you guys do. Not all groups are interested in Living Standards.
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17:06:39 [nigel]
Nigel: OK we'll consider that again when there's an explainer available and maybe come back to you.
17:06:42 [nigel]
Topic: Meeting close
17:06:57 [nigel]
Nigel: Thanks everyone, we're a little over time. Plan for next week is to go ahead, to be reviewed when we have a
17:07:11 [nigel]
.. clearer idea of the regrets and the agenda items. [adjourns meeting]
17:07:15 [nigel]
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Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
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