22:02:50 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mediawg
22:02:50 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/11/19-mediawg-irc
22:02:56 <chcunningham> chcunningham has joined #mediawg
22:02:59 <tidoust> RRSAgent, make logs public
22:03:03 <tidoust> Meeting: Media WG Call
22:03:19 <chcunningham> Hi group, trying to join
22:03:28 <gregwhitworth> present+
22:03:36 <tidoust> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-wg/2019Nov/0002.html
22:03:43 <tidoust> present+ Francois
22:04:37 <cyril> cyril has joined #mediawg
22:04:43 <mounir> present+
22:05:00 <tidoust> present+ Jer, Tess, Eric, Peng
22:05:15 <cyril> present+
22:05:18 <chcunningham> present+
22:05:34 <wolenetz> wolenetz has joined #mediawg
22:05:34 <gkatsev> present+
22:05:38 <jernoble> jernoble has joined #mediawg
22:05:38 <wolenetz> present+
22:05:39 <GregFreedman> GregFreedman has joined #mediawg
22:05:42 <jernoble> present+
22:08:07 <tidoust> present+ GregFreedman, MarkFoltz, ViNguyen, GarretSinger
22:08:15 <tidoust> Topic: HDR
22:08:19 <tidoust> scribe: tidoust
22:08:46 <hober> present+
22:09:02 <tidoust> gregwhitworth: [Summary of discussions in CSS WG about the 3 options proposed in https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4471 ]
22:09:50 <gregwhitworth> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4471#issuecomment-549178832
22:09:58 <tidoust> ... Basically, the CSS WG came back and noted that they would prefer the second option with "video-" prefix to properties
22:10:22 <calvaris> calvaris has joined #mediawg
22:10:22 <chcunningham> Makes sense to me
22:10:27 <tidoust> ... So in practice, see comment on GitHub issue, video-[css property]
22:11:00 <vi_nguyen> vi_nguyen has joined #mediawg
22:11:15 <tidoust> jernoble: People really interested were Netflix and Mark who's not yet on the phone.
22:11:43 <tidoust> GregFreedman: FYI, Mark cannot join today but I'm here. He's been following the thread, and in general, we agree with the direction the thread is taking.
22:12:35 <jernoble> q+
22:12:40 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mediawg
22:12:48 <tidoust> gregwhitworth: Could be useful to agree on the exact set of properties. width, height, resolution, dynamic-range. Any missing one? Please make sure to add them!
22:13:07 <tidoust> ... I'm going to agenda+ the topic to next CSS WG meeting.
22:13:16 <tidoust> ... Probably next week.
22:13:39 <chcunningham> q+
22:13:40 <vi_nguyen> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4471
22:13:52 <tidoust> jernoble: Let's adopt a resolution that we agree with the handling of the CSS WG
22:13:55 <tidoust> ack chcunningham
22:14:23 <tidoust> chcunningham: Just want to clarify the list that Greg gave. Is color-gamut included?
22:14:51 <tidoust> ... Do we want to do that in addition to dynamic-range?
22:15:03 <tidoust> gregwhitworth: I don't have strong feelings about that.
22:15:52 <tidoust> jernoble: I'm just going to read Mark's mind, and say that he'll want to target both differently.
22:16:11 <tidoust> ... Dynamic range is more about brightness level than it is about color.
22:16:25 <tidoust> gregwhitworth: So I agree that we probably want to add that as well.
22:18:27 <tidoust> ... There's a CSS call tomorrow but the topic won't be on the agenda. So not until next week or the week after that.
22:18:59 <gregwhitworth> RESOLVED: video- properties. width, height, resolution, dynamic-range, color-gamut within CSS for media queries
22:19:15 <tidoust> ... My expectation is that we'll just summarize the options and get agreement that the second option is indeed the right one. We've done our due diligence.
22:19:32 <tidoust> Topic: Media Capabilities Issue #136 (aka. DolbyVision)
22:19:58 <tidoust> jernoble: It looks like there's been some back and forth on the issue page. Vi, would you be able to give us an update?
22:21:17 <tidoust> vi_nguyen: rdoherty0 brought up that the reference we had is not enough. Question is "is 2094-10 enough" or do we need a new string to handle Dolby extension?
22:21:19 <vi_nguyen> https://github.com/w3c/media-capabilities/issues/136#issuecomment-555697687
22:21:52 <tidoust> ... But Dolby registered mime type, so we don't need a new string§.
22:22:02 <peng> peng has joined #mediawg
22:22:13 <tidoust> ... The comment lists a couple of other questions and answers.
22:22:46 <cyril> q+
22:22:55 <chcunningham> q+
22:23:01 <cyril> ack
22:23:02 <tidoust> ... Follow-up is "is there any point keeping 2094-10 around?". I think we should. But for the perspective of querying DolbyVision, we would use the Mime type.
22:23:22 <jernoble> ack chcunningham
22:23:25 <jernoble> ack cyril
22:23:31 <tidoust> GregFreedman: Speaking from a Netflix perspective, I believe that's a good approach. Can't say whether we'll need 2094-10.
22:24:25 <vi_nguyen> q+
22:24:35 <tidoust> chcunningham: Example of the VP9 MIME type is super long but doesn't describe metadata. You can associate different metadata. What we're saying here is that there is a strong binding between the mime type and the extension.
22:24:37 <jernoble> ack vi_nguyen
22:25:02 <tidoust> vi_nguyen: The MIME type will contain a profile, strongly bound to specific HDR metadata type.
22:25:12 <tidoust> chcunningham: OK, that sounds like a reasonable path forward, then.
22:25:52 <vi_nguyen> q+
22:25:59 <jernoble> ack vi_nguyen
22:26:00 <tidoust> ... If there is a spec that wouldn't be controversial to reference that would be great
22:26:47 <tidoust> vi_nguyen: To Chris' point about DolbyVision standardization, to the best of our knowledge, that is not defined in any standard for now.
22:27:19 <tidoust> jernoble: Let's give people on GitHub a chance to respond, but it seems we have agreement.
22:28:04 <tidoust> Topic: MediaCapabilities and EME detection polyfill
22:28:20 <chcunningham> joey parrish
22:28:26 <chcunningham> @google - shaka player tl
22:29:24 <tidoust> Joey: We polyfilled the encryption scheme support based on the key system ID. That's independent of Shaka. Anybody can use it.
22:29:40 <vi_nguyen> q+
22:29:45 <tidoust> ... We make some assumptions based on the key system ID.
22:29:52 <tidoust> ack vi_nguyen
22:30:40 <tidoust> vi_nguyen: Encryption scheme support is correlated to key system. Is it correlated to codecs as well? Say H.264 and VP9?
22:31:59 <tidoust> Joey: [goes into detail but scribe confesses being lost on the topic]
22:33:11 <jernoble> q+
22:33:29 <tidoust> ... The implementation has already been done in Chrome but hasn't shipped yet. As soon as it's in the editor's draft, the Chrome team will start the process of landing that feature.
22:33:48 <tidoust> chcunningham: Related to Media Capabilities issue #100.
22:34:15 <tidoust> ... Basically a clone of what's in EME
22:34:26 <tidoust> https://github.com/w3c/media-capabilities/issues/100
22:34:48 <tidoust> chcunningham: If no one objects, I would go ahead and prepare a PR once it lands in the EME spec.
22:35:05 <jernoble> ack jernoble
22:35:06 <tidoust> Joey: At this point, we're at PR review, feedback welcome.
22:35:11 <mounir> q?
22:35:52 <tidoust> jernoble: Webkit has an update pending too, following discussion on the PR that Joey talked about
22:36:01 <tidoust> Topic: ISO/IEC DIS 23091 (aka “Coding Independent Code Point”)
22:36:28 <tidoust> jernoble: I have received from someone in the MPEG Working Group who was concerned that the Media Capabilities spec did not reference this spec
22:37:15 <tidoust> ... The "Coding Independent Code Point". It defines terms like chroma or luma, and formulas to do color conversion and transfer functions.
22:37:38 <tidoust> ... Also [tabular]
22:37:45 <chcunningham> https://github.com/w3c/media-capabilities/issues/118#issuecomment-526780468
22:37:47 <chcunningham> https://github.com/w3c/media-capabilities/issues/118#issuecomment-529033474
22:37:55 <chcunningham> ^^ relecant to discussion of code points
22:38:04 <chcunningham> s/relecant/relevant/
22:38:27 <chcunningham> q+
22:38:27 <tidoust> ... This document contains what looks like normative language, and it might be convenient to use the exact same language.
22:38:42 <tidoust> ... It does not look like it's a free ISO document though.
22:39:17 <tidoust> Cyril: It is a free document. If you follow the link to the ITTF web site, you get it for free.
22:39:38 <tidoust> ... Published in 2013.
22:40:09 <tidoust> jernoble: Is the same thing true for all the other parts?
22:40:13 <tidoust> cyril: I don't know.
22:40:23 <tidoust> ... The topic was raised in CTA WAVE too.
22:40:27 <cyril> https://standards.iso.org/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/c069661_ISO_IEC_23001-8_2016.zip
22:41:41 <tidoust> ... When you say that you don't want to go through an ISO index, in practice, how do you do it? You can ask the player or you can get a manifest and ask for each of them which one is supported. In the second case, there is no need to convert.
22:42:07 <tidoust> ... In most cases, you'll have to convert though.
22:42:32 <tidoust> ... Typically from an integer into a string that you have specified in the Media Capabilities spec.
22:43:24 <jernoble> https://www.iso.org/standard/73412.html
22:43:24 <tidoust> jernoble: No point in media capabilities where you're going to query the details of the audio/video. OK, I'll take that back on my side.
22:43:33 <chcunningham> q+ :)
22:44:14 <tidoust> [some discussion on renumbering of ISO standards, the link Cyril pasted is previous version]
22:44:21 <tidoust> ack chcunningham
22:44:21 <Zakim> chcunningham, you wanted to say )
22:44:22 <jernoble> ack chcunningham
22:44:44 <tidoust> chcunningham: This code point question, I raised this in our larger discussion around HDR.
22:44:58 <tidoust> ... I pasted two comments on IRC that are relevant for this discussion.
22:45:12 <cyril> https://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-H.273-201612-I/en
22:45:16 <tidoust> ... I recognized this code point could be relevant because the VP9 codec string is designed to reference it.
22:45:41 <cyril> "After ISO/IEC 23001-8:2016 was split into three parts in 2019 and renumbered as ISO/IEC 23091 parts 1, 2 and 3, ITU-T H.273 remained technically aligned to ISO/IEC 23091-2:2019."
22:46:26 <tidoust> ... It would be trivial for Chrome to translate. Having said that, the code points are more robust.
22:46:40 <tidoust> ... Mark thought that the more coarse values that we're using are enough though.
22:46:45 <cyril> rrsagent, pointer
22:46:45 <RRSAgent> See https://www.w3.org/2019/11/19-mediawg-irc#T22-46-45
22:46:58 <tidoust> ... I don't have strong opinion, just wanted to raise that in the context of this discussion
22:47:34 <tidoust> jernoble: My understanding of that issue is that it's more for non VP9 codec strings that don't have this code point references
22:47:50 <tidoust> ... I will take this back to our standards body
22:48:31 <tidoust> cyril: The comment seems to be that Media Capabilities does not reference "CICP"
22:49:06 <tidoust> Topic: AOB
22:49:25 <gregwhitworth> https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/MSEdgeExplainers/blob/master/MediaBlob/explainer.md
22:49:35 <tidoust> gregwhitworth: We've been working with partners on client-side video editing
22:49:52 <tidoust> ... I don't necessarily think that the Media WG is the right place to discuss this.
22:50:38 <tidoust> mounir: How is it related to WebCodecs?
22:51:09 <tidoust> gregwhitworth: Very related. If there is proof that WebCodecs is coming very fast.
22:51:38 <tidoust> mounir: We are starting to work on that in Chrome. My understanding is that video editing is one use case that we're trying to solve.
22:52:02 <tidoust> ... I will put you in touch with people at Google.
22:52:35 <tidoust> chcunningham: There is a WebCodec weekly meeting tomorrow. I believe Microsoft, Mozilla are regularly attending.
22:52:41 <tidoust> gregwhitworth: Excellent.
22:53:12 <tidoust> Barbara: Also interest from Intel. Happy to connect you to people here.
22:53:43 <tidoust> ... Riju is taking care of it on our side, typically
22:53:59 <tidoust> mounir: Yes, we seem to be talking to the same people in different places.
22:54:44 <tidoust> jernoble: Thank you everyone for attending. We'll probably bounce between the two time slots.
22:54:50 <tidoust> RRSagent, draft minutes v2
22:54:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/11/19-mediawg-minutes.html tidoust
22:56:05 <jernoble> tidoust: thank you so much for scribing. i really appreciate it, and next time i'll get a volunteer/victim
22:57:08 <calvaris_> calvaris_ has joined #mediawg
22:58:33 <gregwhitworth> tidoust: +1 to what jer said!!!
22:59:51 <jernoble> jernoble has joined #mediawg