<Chuck> Peter we hear you.
<pkorn> Thanks Chuck
<jeanne> AGWG charter is open until 8 October 2019
<Chuck> Hoping to avoid scribing, not feeling the best.
<jeanne> Kim: Can people other than the AC rep see the form?
<jeanne> Michael: THere are 3 questions, one of them will have a place for comments
<scribe> scribe: janina
js: Picking up from Tuesday's
conversation ...
... FPWD of Silver expected late November
... We need to decide what we can put in by then
... Suggestion was one SC, Color Contrast
... Plus one of the new proposals from COGA or LV
... Have action to find the proposals--now sent and on Wiki
pk: Offering to work on challenges language to get it includable
js: Hope to have some proposed
lang by next Tuesday's call
... Have gui9deline, description, methods, test ... Presented
to aGWG and other TFs for feedback
... to give us new content to see how it might fit
... Clear wording from COGA
... Enable api
... Point of regard and text spacing from LV
... Let people where they are in a multi screen task re one of
the CoGA pieces
... e.g. step 3 of 7
... Started draft on "clear words"
... Becky Gibson had begun work on enabling APIs
<Zakim> janina_, you wanted to discuss spacing possibility for tech solution
<LuisG> janina: some of what we're writing guidance for...we're trying to push some of that forward
<LuisG> .. there is a CSS taskforce and we're discussing whether we have what we need for a user to define what would work for them
<LuisG> .. the new one is whether we can manage a different spacing after punctuation; defining what you want after that could be problematic because of things like "i.e."
<LuisG> .. it seems it should be possible to make it easier to create a configuration that would control that. might not be necessary for Silver to do it if the uses can manage it themselves
<LuisG> .. some of what we're working on, might want to come up with technical solutions rather than best practices guidance
<LuisG> js: that's exciting news; but I think this is still important because we're not just talking about web/html technology.
<LuisG> .. in VR, people would want to be able to control spacing, etc.
<LuisG> .. we would still want to include it, but not make it something the author would have to do; maybe something a user agent could do
<CharlesHall> +1 to Jeanne – still have guidance regardless of the ease of availability of technology solutions
<LuisG> janina: and using stylesheets never really ended up being something successful for users; the thinking is maybe we can do better at that
<LuisG> .. the VR and emerging tech is a whole other issue
<LuisG> js: I've always been a believer in it being a user agent rather than authoring function
<LuisG> .. it's a good point to maybe not have it as an early success criterion and instead wait
<LuisG> janina: it brings up questions about what kind of guidance this is? authoring, user agent, or can we create some kind of technological solution; a kind of AT
<LuisG> .. since we brought up VR...we had some discussions and got walkthroughs on how some of that stuff is working; we got an understanding of what part of the stack stuff happens on...
<LuisG> .. I'm wondering how we write guidance for that sort of work; and that's ongoing right now
<LuisG> js: I didn't find all of that in the minutes
<LuisG> janina: it's from Friday morning; I'll send them out
<Zakim> CharlesHall, you wanted to confirm if these are indeed active as none of the 5 appear in the 2.2 spreadsheet:
charles: Wants to point out we
may still need guidance for a particular concern even if we
have an emerging tech solution
... notes none of the lv in current 2.2 sc? Should we look at
these? Or others?
js: We specifically asked for examples that couldn't go into 2.2
charles: Understood
chuck: Like janina's suggestions, but all of those might be too much for our fpwd
janina: agree
jenison: asks whether janina proposes beyond current SC?
js: Yes, beyond
cheuck: expansion on 2.1?
js: yes
charles: Is the suggestion for all 5 to be covered in the FPWD?
js: No, likely too many to do
well enough for FPWD
... We are open to volunteers to work on these, though
... Jan is eager to get LV related SC wording suitable
... Anyone from LV willing to help with one of those?
<CharlesHall> Charles will start working on Point of Regard
js: Looking at incorporating challenges concepts for FPWD conformance section
pk: Think it would be great
either in, or longside
... Amazon will work with whoever is interested to make draft
suitable
<jeanne> Prototype of ED https://w3c.github.io/silver/prototypes/EdDraftPrototype/
pk: Were it should go should be decided by folks more experienced in AGWG processes
jeanne: Noting a pretty detailed conformance section where these may fit
js; Notes items raised that should be in the issues doc
pk: Biggest mismatch I see is
notion that bronze equates to WCAG 2.1
... There being non automatable parts of WCAG 2.x we need to
bridge that to the ag model
janina: Expresses concern that defining an equivalence creates more problems than it solves
jeanne: Much discussion on this,
but never thought of it as one to one mapping
... Rather as a way to help people who have made investments
into meeting existence guidance some notion of where they stand
in the new model
pk: Suggests lang that any site meeting 2.2 is still valid, without actually tieing to a new level
<KimD> +1 Bronze should not equal 2.x (AA)
pk: Maybe also need to more qualitatively define what we mean by bronze, silver, gold. What's the user experience diff/
s/\/?/
<Chuck> 8th level wizards casts spell of agreement with Peter.
pk: We want to convey the opportunity to keep getting better and better
<CharlesHall> so do Marvel comics
<jeanne> +1 to Peter - have a qualitative analysis discussion of what makes bronze, silver and gold levels and beyond.
Luis: There will need to be numbering for correspondance to give people continuity
pk: Think it's more of the user experience than simply not pass/fail test
js: It's time we revisit this conversation. We had it long ago, but not recently
pk: Clearly we need to avoid
invalidating 2.x for all who invested in meeting that; but how
many actually meet 2.x AA? Beyond the home page? Average was
around 47%
... Training, tooling and knowledge is what we must not
invalidate; more than specific equivalence statements
... 4th would be processes -- if an org has a working process
around AA, we don't want to invalidate that
<CharlesHall> process or tools may also include the ACT rules work
js: Asks for examples
<bruce_bailey> it may be the case that awards less than bronze may be worth including
pk: Thinking of what we do at
Amazon, what we did at Oracle, at Sun, they're all based around
meeting current WCAG
... These become internal processes with defined steps
... We don't want to tell people you need to change all your
ways of working
<bruce_bailey> at AccessU, Eric mentioned that quote wood metals unquote are actual prizes
pk: Silver should preserve institutional knowledge and tooling
<Zakim> janina_, you wanted to remind of Explainer
<jeanne> +1 to an Explainer
TAG Explainer of Explainers: https://w3ctag.github.io/explainers
mc: Supports not
invalidating
... But needs to make Silver different from WCAG 2
... Meanwhile, WCAG 2.x should remain valid for some extended
period of time
... Don't want to force change; we need a balance
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154 of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/get COGA/get LV/ FAILED: s/\/?/ Default Present: Chuck, bruce_bailey, CharlesHall, jeanne, Jennison, KimD, pkorn, LuisG, johnkirkwood, janina_ Present: Chuck bruce_bailey CharlesHall jeanne Jennison KimD pkorn LuisG johnkirkwood janina_ Regrets: Shawn Cybele No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: janina_ Found Scribe: janina Found Date: 27 Sep 2019 People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]