IRC log of aria on 2019-09-26
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:56:24 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #aria
- 16:56:24 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/26-aria-irc
- 16:56:26 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 16:56:26 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #aria
- 16:56:28 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
- 16:56:28 [trackbot]
- Date: 26 September 2019
- 16:56:58 [pkra]
- pkra has joined #aria
- 16:57:47 [joanie]
- present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
- 16:58:14 [jamesn]
- present+
- 16:58:21 [pkra]
- present+
- 16:58:40 [jamesn]
- agenda+ [New Issue Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2019-09-05+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues)
- 16:58:40 [jamesn]
- agenda+ [New PR Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2019-09-05+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues)
- 16:58:40 [jamesn]
- agenda+ TPAC Round up and Actions
- 16:58:41 [jamesn]
- agenda+ [feat: aria-brailleroledescription](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/924)
- 16:58:41 [jamesn]
- agenda+ [Impact of deprecating WCAG 4.1.1](https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/770)
- 16:58:41 [jamesn]
- agenda+ [Plans for next F2F]
- 16:58:41 [jamesn]
- agenda+ [ARIA Annotations](https://w3c.github.io/annotation-aria)
- 16:58:41 [jamesn]
- agenda+ Prioritizing work before Oct 24
- 16:58:42 [jamesn]
- agenda+ [Should extension specs be allowed to override required owned elements with subclasses?](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1056)
- 16:58:42 [jamesn]
- 16:58:50 [Irfan]
- Irfan has joined #aria
- 16:59:02 [Irfan]
- present+
- 16:59:04 [jamesn]
- regrets+ MarkMcCarthy ScottOHara
- 17:00:25 [carmacleod]
- present+
- 17:00:31 [aaronlev]
- aaronlev has joined #aria
- 17:01:42 [Stefan]
- Stefan has joined #aria
- 17:01:51 [Stefan]
- present+
- 17:03:25 [carmacleod]
- scribe: carmacleod
- 17:03:38 [carmacleod]
- agenda?
- 17:03:48 [carmacleod]
- zakim, next item
- 17:03:48 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "[New Issue Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2019-09-05+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2F
- 17:03:51 [Zakim]
- ... core-aam&type=Issues)" taken up [from jamesn]
- 17:04:27 [jongund]
- jongund has joined #aria
- 17:04:34 [Jemma_]
- Jemma_ has joined #ARIA
- 17:04:36 [CurtBellew]
- CurtBellew has joined #aria
- 17:04:38 [jongund]
- present+ jongund
- 17:04:46 [Jemma_]
- present+ JaeunJemmaKU
- 17:05:10 [zorkow]
- zorkow has joined #aria
- 17:05:26 [CurtBellew]
- present +
- 17:05:53 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: AriaAttributes cannot be nullable - 1.2 milestone
- 17:06:02 [volker_sorge]
- volker_sorge has joined #aria
- 17:06:17 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: Should extension specs be allowed to override required owned elements with subclasses? - later in agenda
- 17:06:45 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: hidden and css visibility - any volunteers? we will look at it again next week
- 17:07:37 [Jemma_]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1054
- 17:07:57 [Matt_King]
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- 17:08:12 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: Output of child elements - not sure what this means?
- 17:08:42 [Matt_King]
- present+
- 17:09:20 [carmacleod]
- stefan: maybe asking for parent's label announced when child has focus?
- 17:09:56 [carmacleod]
- aaron: we don't change the accessible name of a child based on whether the parent has a label
- 17:10:21 [carmacleod]
- aaron: also, we don't tell AT what to do
- 17:10:45 [Jemma_]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1052
- 17:11:20 [Jemma_]
- zakim, who is here?
- 17:11:20 [Zakim]
- Present: Joanmarie_Diggs, jamesn, pkra, Irfan, carmacleod, Stefan, jongund, JaeunJemmaKU, Matt_King
- 17:11:22 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see Matt_King, volker_sorge, CurtBellew, Jemma_, jongund, Stefan, aaronlev, Irfan, pkra, Zakim, RRSAgent, carmacleod, github-bot, MichaelC, spectranaut, AutomatedTester,
- 17:11:22 [Zakim]
- ... jcraig, tink, achraf, melanierichards, jamesn, ZoeBijl, bigbluehat, Josh_Soref, joanie, slightlyoff, timeless, JonathanNeal, trackbot
- 17:11:40 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: heading with aria-level > 6 - mark this as 1.3 - it's not urgent
- 17:11:50 [Jemma_]
- https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/53
- 17:11:56 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: Need mappings for aria-rowindextext and aria-colindextext - 1.2
- 17:12:10 [Jemma_]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1049
- 17:12:27 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: Let web developers signal their "DPAD mechanics"
- 17:12:51 [carmacleod]
- joanie: doesn't seem like ARIA to me
- 17:12:57 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: me neither
- 17:13:42 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: When is hidden content taken into calculation of name and description?
- 17:13:57 [Jemma_]
- https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/53
- 17:14:11 [carmacleod]
- matt: this is thorny - need to wait until Bryan is back - need to discuss and make necessary adjustments in APG
- 17:14:43 [carmacleod]
- james: assigned to Bryan and added 1.2 milestone
- 17:14:56 [carmacleod]
- matt: please add to agenda for October 10
- 17:15:21 [carmacleod]
- zakim, next item
- 17:15:21 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "[New PR Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2019-09-05+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-a
- 17:15:23 [Jemma_]
- s/https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/53 /https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/57
- 17:15:25 [Zakim]
- ... am&type=Issues)" taken up [from jamesn]
- 17:15:41 [jamesn]
- zakim, close this item
- 17:15:41 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 closed
- 17:15:42 [Zakim]
- I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 17:15:42 [Zakim]
- 3. TPAC Round up and Actions [from jamesn]
- 17:15:46 [jamesn]
- zakim, next item
- 17:15:46 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "TPAC Round up and Actions" taken up [from jamesn]
- 17:16:29 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: useful discussions
- 17:17:00 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: will not attempt to do accessible name changes for legend, caption roles
- 17:17:21 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: too close to end of 1.2 timeline to put something this major in
- 17:17:40 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: APG discussions about code quality
- 17:18:59 [carmacleod]
- matt: haven't given up on combobox, can hopefully get all combobox issues closed by 1.2
- 17:19:08 [Jemma_]
- matt's presentation http://a11y.pro/combobox-TPAC2019/
- 17:19:45 [carmacleod]
- stefan: is combobox role going back to input
- 17:20:25 [carmacleod]
- matt: issues are not resolved yet
- 17:20:51 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: TPAC next year is Oct 26-30 in Vancouver Canada
- 17:21:57 [carmacleod]
- zakim, next item
- 17:21:57 [Zakim]
- agendum 4. "[feat: aria-brailleroledescription](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/924)" taken up [from jamesn]
- 17:22:40 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: We have a PR that is ready to go?
- 17:23:14 [carmacleod]
- peter: braille patterns or not, but don't mix
- 17:23:57 [carmacleod]
- peter: now reads "consistes of a string of NO Unicode Braille patterns, or ALL Unicode Braille patterns
- 17:24:29 [joanie]
- q+
- 17:26:34 [carmacleod]
- peter: added a note to discourage use
- 17:28:04 [carmacleod]
- peter: I asked Sina what happens when there's a language switch - does at provide separate translation tables? does the braille display indicate the language change?
- 17:28:24 [jamesn]
- ack joa
- 17:28:51 [carmacleod]
- joanie: agree that the warning is really important
- 17:29:18 [volker_sorge]
- Q+
- 17:30:03 [carmacleod]
- joanie: don't use "User Agents", use "Screen Readers" or "Assistive Technologies"
- 17:30:17 [carmacleod]
- peter: should I change it from a SHOULD?
- 17:30:50 [carmacleod]
- joanie: keep the SHOULD
- 17:31:17 [carmacleod]
- joanie: screen readers have to separate out speech and braille
- 17:31:43 [carmacleod]
- joanie: some users might want german braille and english speech output
- 17:33:06 [jamesn]
- regrets+ HarrisSchneiderman
- 17:33:06 [carmacleod]
- peter: the topic of translation tables keeps coming up - seems not standardized - do we need to open a discussion about this?
- 17:33:12 [jamesn]
- q?
- 17:33:54 [jamesn]
- ack vo
- 17:37:00 [joanie]
- q+
- 17:37:31 [joanie]
- ack me
- 17:38:46 [volker_sorge]
- q+
- 17:40:13 [jamesn]
- agenda?
- 17:40:32 [jamesn]
- ack vo
- 17:40:35 [carmacleod]
- zakim, next item
- 17:40:35 [Zakim]
- agendum 5. "[Impact of deprecating WCAG 4.1.1](https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/770)" taken up [from jamesn]
- 17:41:53 [jamesn]
- q+
- 17:41:54 [carmacleod]
- stefan: WCAG working group is considering deprecating WCAG 4.1.1
- 17:42:10 [carmacleod]
- stefan: what effect will this have on aria
- 17:42:52 [carmacleod]
- james: I don't think it will have any effect on aria because any failure of 4.1.1 is a failure of some other SC
- 17:43:01 [jamesn]
- ack me
- 17:43:34 [carmacleod]
- stefan: my initial thought was about forbidden nesting of aria roles
- 17:43:55 [carmacleod]
- stefan: maybe this is already handled by SteveF in HTML-AAM
- 17:44:19 [carmacleod]
- james: the could certainly add a new SC about aria role nesting
- 17:45:58 [carmacleod]
- zakim, next item
- 17:45:58 [Zakim]
- agendum 6. "[Plans for next F2F]" taken up [from jamesn]
- 17:46:33 [carmacleod]
- james: stefan asked if there would be a F2F at CSUN
- 17:46:39 [carmacleod]
- straw poll
- 17:46:47 [Stefan]
- +1
- 17:46:48 [jamesn]
- -1
- 17:46:48 [volker_sorge]
- +1
- 17:46:48 [Matt_King]
- 0
- 17:46:48 [CurtBellew]
- -1
- 17:46:51 [jongund]
- -1
- 17:46:55 [carmacleod]
- 0
- 17:46:56 [joanie]
- 0 - I won't be coming
- 17:47:06 [Jemma_]
- not sure yet
- 17:47:11 [aaronlev]
- -1
- 17:47:29 [Jemma_]
- ;-)
- 17:47:54 [pkra]
- +1
- 17:48:01 [pkra]
- (to Europe)
- 17:48:08 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: considering possible F2F in Europe in March or April?
- 17:48:16 [Stefan]
- +1 (europe) +100 Ireland
- 17:48:36 [aaronlev]
- +1 for ireland
- 17:48:37 [aaronlev]
- :)
- 17:48:53 [CurtBellew]
- +1 for ireland :)
- 17:49:36 [carmacleod]
- james: more towards the end of April, beginning of May, since CSUN is in March
- 17:49:59 [CurtBellew]
- later in May is better for me
- 17:50:17 [Jemma_]
- feb?
- 17:50:29 [Jemma_]
- ;-)
- 17:50:47 [carmacleod]
- zakim, next item
- 17:50:47 [Zakim]
- agendum 7. "[ARIA Annotations](https://w3c.github.io/annotation-aria)" taken up [from jamesn]
- 17:51:21 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: Aaron sent an email asking for wider review
- 17:51:54 [carmacleod]
- aaron: I hope they are pretty close to being something that could be implemented.
- 17:51:57 [Irfan]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 17:51:57 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/26-aria-minutes.html Irfan
- 17:52:11 [carmacleod]
- aaron: want to get people to look at it and try to find problems
- 17:52:31 [carmacleod]
- aaron: want to get it into google docs and other apps
- 17:53:07 [carmacleod]
- arron: would really appreciate feedback because I want to move forward with this
- 17:53:38 [carmacleod]
- matt: looking pretty solid, would like clarification of aria-details
- 17:54:37 [carmacleod]
- s/arron/aaron
- 17:55:30 [carmacleod]
- matt: UIA can only specify one relationship
- 17:56:15 [Jemma_]
- https://www.w3.org/2019/09/16-aria-minutes.html#item02
- 17:56:29 [carmacleod]
- matt: was there a precedence relationship between describedby and details
- 17:57:15 [jamesn]
- agenda?
- 17:57:27 [Jemma_]
- "In some user agents, multiple reference relationships for descriptive information are not supported by the accessibility API. In such cases, if both aria-describedby" Matt'
- 17:57:37 [Jemma_]
- from the minutes
- 17:58:37 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: I will look through the minutes
- 18:00:38 [carmacleod]
- aaron: can we write aria-details in the aria spec to have non-normative text to point to this
- 18:01:01 [carmacleod]
- zakim, next item
- 18:01:01 [Zakim]
- agendum 8. "Prioritizing work before Oct 24" taken up [from jamesn]
- 18:01:02 [jamesn]
- zakim, next item
- 18:01:03 [Zakim]
- agendum 8 was just opened, jamesn
- 18:01:07 [pkra]
- gotta go. bye everyone.
- 18:02:09 [carmacleod]
- zakim, who is on the call?
- 18:02:09 [Zakim]
- Present: Joanmarie_Diggs, jamesn, pkra, Irfan, carmacleod, Stefan, jongund, JaeunJemmaKU, Matt_King
- 18:02:34 [Matt_King_]
- Matt_King_ has joined #aria
- 18:02:36 [carmacleod]
- zakim, bye
- 18:02:36 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Joanmarie_Diggs, jamesn, pkra, Irfan, carmacleod, Stefan, jongund, JaeunJemmaKU, Matt_King
- 18:02:36 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #aria
- 18:02:46 [carmacleod]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:02:46 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/26-aria-minutes.html carmacleod
- 18:03:59 [carmacleod]
- present+ CurtBellew
- 18:04:17 [Matt_King__]
- Matt_King__ has joined #aria
- 18:04:26 [carmacleod]
- present+ volker_sorge
- 18:05:04 [Matt_King___]
- Matt_King___ has joined #aria
- 18:06:24 [carmacleod]
- present+ aaronlev
- 18:06:33 [aaronlev]
- aaronlev has left #aria
- 18:06:40 [carmacleod]
- zakim, who is on the call?
- 18:07:09 [carmacleod]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:07:09 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/26-aria-minutes.html carmacleod
- 18:08:54 [Matt_King___]
- Matt_King___ has joined #aria