16:56:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
16:56:24 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/26-aria-irc
16:56:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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16:56:28 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
16:56:28 <trackbot> Date: 26 September 2019
16:56:58 <pkra> pkra has joined #aria
16:57:47 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
16:58:14 <jamesn> present+
16:58:21 <pkra> present+
16:58:40 <jamesn> agenda+ [New Issue Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2019-09-05+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues)
16:58:40 <jamesn> agenda+ [New PR Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2019-09-05+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues)
16:58:40 <jamesn> agenda+ TPAC Round up and Actions
16:58:41 <jamesn> agenda+ [feat: aria-brailleroledescription](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/924)
16:58:41 <jamesn> agenda+ [Impact of deprecating WCAG 4.1.1](https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/770)
16:58:41 <jamesn> agenda+ [Plans for next F2F]
16:58:41 <jamesn> agenda+ [ARIA Annotations](https://w3c.github.io/annotation-aria)
16:58:41 <jamesn> agenda+ Prioritizing work before Oct 24
16:58:42 <jamesn> agenda+ [Should extension specs be allowed to override required owned elements with subclasses?](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1056)
16:58:42 <jamesn> 
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16:59:02 <Irfan> present+
16:59:04 <jamesn> regrets+ MarkMcCarthy ScottOHara
17:00:25 <carmacleod> present+
17:00:31 <aaronlev> aaronlev has joined #aria
17:01:42 <Stefan> Stefan has joined #aria
17:01:51 <Stefan> present+
17:03:25 <carmacleod> scribe: carmacleod
17:03:38 <carmacleod> agenda?
17:03:48 <carmacleod> zakim, next item
17:03:48 <Zakim> agendum 1. "[New Issue Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2019-09-05+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2F
17:03:51 <Zakim> ... core-aam&type=Issues)" taken up [from jamesn]
17:04:27 <jongund> jongund has joined #aria
17:04:34 <Jemma_> Jemma_ has joined #ARIA
17:04:36 <CurtBellew> CurtBellew has joined #aria
17:04:38 <jongund> present+ jongund
17:04:46 <Jemma_> present+ JaeunJemmaKU
17:05:10 <zorkow> zorkow has joined #aria
17:05:26 <CurtBellew> present +
17:05:53 <carmacleod> jamesn: AriaAttributes cannot be nullable - 1.2 milestone
17:06:02 <volker_sorge> volker_sorge has joined #aria
17:06:17 <carmacleod> jamesn: Should extension specs be allowed to override required owned elements with subclasses? - later in agenda
17:06:45 <carmacleod> jamesn: hidden and css visibility - any volunteers? we will look at it again next week
17:07:37 <Jemma_> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1054
17:07:57 <Matt_King> Matt_King has joined #aria
17:08:12 <carmacleod> jamesn: Output of child elements - not sure what this means?
17:08:42 <Matt_King> present+
17:09:20 <carmacleod> stefan:  maybe asking for parent's label announced when child has focus?
17:09:56 <carmacleod> aaron: we don't change the accessible name of a child based on whether the parent has a label
17:10:21 <carmacleod> aaron: also, we don't tell AT what to do
17:10:45 <Jemma_> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1052
17:11:20 <Jemma_> zakim, who is here?
17:11:20 <Zakim> Present: Joanmarie_Diggs, jamesn, pkra, Irfan, carmacleod, Stefan, jongund, JaeunJemmaKU, Matt_King
17:11:22 <Zakim> On IRC I see Matt_King, volker_sorge, CurtBellew, Jemma_, jongund, Stefan, aaronlev, Irfan, pkra, Zakim, RRSAgent, carmacleod, github-bot, MichaelC, spectranaut, AutomatedTester,
17:11:22 <Zakim> ... jcraig, tink, achraf, melanierichards, jamesn, ZoeBijl, bigbluehat, Josh_Soref, joanie, slightlyoff, timeless, JonathanNeal, trackbot
17:11:40 <carmacleod> jamesn: heading with aria-level > 6 - mark this as 1.3 - it's not urgent
17:11:50 <Jemma_> https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/53
17:11:56 <carmacleod> jamesn: Need mappings for aria-rowindextext and aria-colindextext - 1.2
17:12:10 <Jemma_> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1049
17:12:27 <carmacleod> jamesn: Let web developers signal their "DPAD mechanics"
17:12:51 <carmacleod> joanie: doesn't seem like ARIA to me
17:12:57 <carmacleod> jamesn: me neither
17:13:42 <carmacleod> jamesn: When is hidden content taken into calculation of name and description?
17:13:57 <Jemma_> https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/53
17:14:11 <carmacleod> matt: this is thorny - need to wait until Bryan is back - need to discuss and make necessary adjustments in APG
17:14:43 <carmacleod> james: assigned to Bryan and added 1.2 milestone
17:14:56 <carmacleod> matt: please add to agenda for October 10
17:15:21 <carmacleod> zakim, next item
17:15:21 <Zakim> agendum 2. "[New PR Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2019-09-05+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-a
17:15:23 <Jemma_> s/https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/53 /https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/57
17:15:25 <Zakim> ... am&type=Issues)" taken up [from jamesn]
17:15:41 <jamesn> zakim, close this item
17:15:41 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
17:15:42 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:15:42 <Zakim> 3. TPAC Round up and Actions [from jamesn]
17:15:46 <jamesn> zakim, next item
17:15:46 <Zakim> agendum 3. "TPAC Round up and Actions" taken up [from jamesn]
17:16:29 <carmacleod> jamesn: useful discussions
17:17:00 <carmacleod> jamesn: will not attempt to do accessible name changes for legend, caption roles
17:17:21 <carmacleod> jamesn: too close to end of 1.2 timeline to put something this major in
17:17:40 <carmacleod> jamesn: APG discussions about code quality
17:18:59 <carmacleod> matt: haven't given up on combobox, can hopefully get all combobox issues closed by 1.2
17:19:08 <Jemma_> matt's presentation http://a11y.pro/combobox-TPAC2019/
17:19:45 <carmacleod> stefan: is combobox role going back to input
17:20:25 <carmacleod> matt: issues are not resolved yet
17:20:51 <carmacleod> jamesn: TPAC next year is Oct 26-30 in Vancouver Canada
17:21:57 <carmacleod> zakim, next item
17:21:57 <Zakim> agendum 4. "[feat: aria-brailleroledescription](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/924)" taken up [from jamesn]
17:22:40 <carmacleod> jamesn: We have a PR that is ready to go?
17:23:14 <carmacleod> peter: braille patterns or not, but don't mix
17:23:57 <carmacleod> peter: now reads "consistes of a string of NO Unicode Braille patterns, or ALL Unicode Braille patterns
17:24:29 <joanie> q+
17:26:34 <carmacleod> peter: added a note to discourage use
17:28:04 <carmacleod> peter: I asked Sina what happens when there's a language switch - does at provide separate translation tables? does the braille display indicate the language change?
17:28:24 <jamesn> ack joa
17:28:51 <carmacleod> joanie: agree that the warning is really important
17:29:18 <volker_sorge> Q+
17:30:03 <carmacleod> joanie: don't use "User Agents", use "Screen Readers" or "Assistive Technologies"
17:30:17 <carmacleod> peter: should I change it from a SHOULD?
17:30:50 <carmacleod> joanie: keep the SHOULD
17:31:17 <carmacleod> joanie: screen readers have to separate out speech and braille
17:31:43 <carmacleod> joanie: some users might want german braille and english speech output
17:33:06 <jamesn> regrets+ HarrisSchneiderman
17:33:06 <carmacleod> peter: the topic of translation tables keeps coming up - seems not standardized - do we need to open a discussion about this?
17:33:12 <jamesn> q?
17:33:54 <jamesn> ack vo
17:37:00 <joanie> q+
17:37:31 <joanie> ack me
17:38:46 <volker_sorge> q+
17:40:13 <jamesn> agenda?
17:40:32 <jamesn> ack vo
17:40:35 <carmacleod> zakim, next item
17:40:35 <Zakim> agendum 5. "[Impact of deprecating WCAG 4.1.1](https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/770)" taken up [from jamesn]
17:41:53 <jamesn> q+
17:41:54 <carmacleod> stefan: WCAG working group is considering deprecating WCAG 4.1.1
17:42:10 <carmacleod> stefan: what effect will this have on aria
17:42:52 <carmacleod> james: I don't think it will have any effect on aria because any failure of 4.1.1 is a failure of some other SC
17:43:01 <jamesn> ack me
17:43:34 <carmacleod> stefan: my initial thought was about forbidden nesting of aria roles
17:43:55 <carmacleod> stefan: maybe this is already handled by SteveF in HTML-AAM
17:44:19 <carmacleod> james: the could certainly add a new SC about aria role nesting
17:45:58 <carmacleod> zakim, next item
17:45:58 <Zakim> agendum 6. "[Plans for next F2F]" taken up [from jamesn]
17:46:33 <carmacleod> james: stefan asked if there would be a F2F at CSUN
17:46:39 <carmacleod> straw poll
17:46:47 <Stefan> +1
17:46:48 <jamesn> -1
17:46:48 <volker_sorge> +1
17:46:48 <Matt_King> 0
17:46:48 <CurtBellew> -1
17:46:51 <jongund> -1
17:46:55 <carmacleod> 0
17:46:56 <joanie> 0 - I won't be coming
17:47:06 <Jemma_> not sure yet
17:47:11 <aaronlev> -1
17:47:29 <Jemma_> ;-)
17:47:54 <pkra> +1
17:48:01 <pkra> (to Europe)
17:48:08 <carmacleod> jamesn: considering possible F2F in Europe in March or April?
17:48:16 <Stefan> +1 (europe) +100 Ireland
17:48:36 <aaronlev> +1 for ireland
17:48:37 <aaronlev> :)
17:48:53 <CurtBellew> +1 for ireland :)
17:49:36 <carmacleod> james: more towards the end of April, beginning of May, since CSUN is in March
17:49:59 <CurtBellew> later in May is better for me
17:50:17 <Jemma_> feb?
17:50:29 <Jemma_> ;-)
17:50:47 <carmacleod> zakim, next item
17:50:47 <Zakim> agendum 7. "[ARIA Annotations](https://w3c.github.io/annotation-aria)" taken up [from jamesn]
17:51:21 <carmacleod> jamesn: Aaron sent an email asking for wider review
17:51:54 <carmacleod> aaron: I hope they are pretty close to being something that could be implemented.
17:51:57 <Irfan> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:51:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/26-aria-minutes.html Irfan
17:52:11 <carmacleod> aaron: want to get people to look at it and try to find problems
17:52:31 <carmacleod> aaron: want to get it into google docs and other apps
17:53:07 <carmacleod> arron: would really appreciate feedback because I want to move forward with this
17:53:38 <carmacleod> matt: looking pretty solid, would like clarification of aria-details
17:54:37 <carmacleod> s/arron/aaron
17:55:30 <carmacleod> matt: UIA can only specify one relationship
17:56:15 <Jemma_> https://www.w3.org/2019/09/16-aria-minutes.html#item02
17:56:29 <carmacleod> matt: was there a precedence relationship between describedby and details
17:57:15 <jamesn> agenda?
17:57:27 <Jemma_> "In some user agents, multiple reference relationships for descriptive information are not supported by the accessibility API. In such cases, if both aria-describedby" Matt'
17:57:37 <Jemma_> from the minutes
17:58:37 <carmacleod> jamesn: I will look through the minutes
18:00:38 <carmacleod> aaron: can we write aria-details in the aria spec to have non-normative text to point to this
18:01:01 <carmacleod> zakim, next item
18:01:01 <Zakim> agendum 8. "Prioritizing work before Oct 24" taken up [from jamesn]
18:01:02 <jamesn> zakim, next item
18:01:03 <Zakim> agendum 8 was just opened, jamesn
18:01:07 <pkra> gotta go. bye everyone.
18:02:09 <carmacleod> zakim, who is on the call?
18:02:09 <Zakim> Present: Joanmarie_Diggs, jamesn, pkra, Irfan, carmacleod, Stefan, jongund, JaeunJemmaKU, Matt_King
18:02:34 <Matt_King_> Matt_King_ has joined #aria
18:02:36 <carmacleod> zakim, bye
18:02:36 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Joanmarie_Diggs, jamesn, pkra, Irfan, carmacleod, Stefan, jongund, JaeunJemmaKU, Matt_King
18:02:36 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria
18:02:46 <carmacleod> rrsagent, make minutes
18:02:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/26-aria-minutes.html carmacleod
18:03:59 <carmacleod> present+ CurtBellew
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18:04:26 <carmacleod> present+ volker_sorge
18:05:04 <Matt_King___> Matt_King___ has joined #aria
18:06:24 <carmacleod> present+ aaronlev
18:06:33 <aaronlev> aaronlev has left #aria
18:06:40 <carmacleod> zakim, who is on the call?
18:07:09 <carmacleod> rrsagent, make minutes
18:07:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/26-aria-minutes.html carmacleod
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