13:48:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #COGA
13:48:12 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/26-COGA-irc
13:48:14 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:48:17 <trackbot> Meeting: Cognitive Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:48:17 <trackbot> Date: 26 September 2019
13:48:54 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda+ actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage
13:49:03 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, clear agenda
13:49:03 <Zakim> agenda cleared
13:49:07 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda+ actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage
13:49:39 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda+ updates, and tpac
13:49:48 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda+ review user needs   https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Rt51xg57oZW56mfTw_t33T9z  lPDOV7o4Za6veCCqDtI/edit#gid=2019648557
13:50:05 <LisaSeemanKest> Agenda+ set next steps for user needs
13:50:36 <LisaSeemanKest> Agenda+ FTF at csun?
13:50:47 <LisaSeemanKest> Agenda+ FAST https://w3c.github.io/apa/fast/#user-customization
13:50:55 <LisaSeemanKest> http://w3c.github.io/apa/fast/checklist
13:51:18 <Rachael> Rachael has joined #coga
13:51:24 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda+ priorities review https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage
13:52:12 <LisaSeemanKest> regrets: EA Draffan, Jennie, David
14:00:42 <Rachael> present+
14:00:58 <LisaSeemanKest>  present+
14:01:59 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda+
14:02:05 <LisaSeemanKest> ageda?
14:02:12 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda?
14:05:14 <JF> JF has joined #coga
14:05:24 <JF> Present+
14:05:36 <Rachael> scribe: Rachael
14:06:05 <JF> agenda?
14:06:29 <Rachael> zakim takeup item 1
14:06:37 <Rachael> zakim, take up item 1
14:06:37 <Zakim> agendum 1. "actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage" taken up [from LisaSeemanKest]
14:08:49 <Rachael> Lisa: WCAG 2.2 Update
14:09:13 <JohnRochford> JohnRochford has joined #coga
14:09:30 <JohnRochford> present+ JohnRochford
14:10:10 <Rachael> Rachael: We went through the SC but didn't get to Undo errors. Most at risk is Most Important Things. Everything else had good feedback and moved forward.
14:10:29 <Rachael> Michael: In and out but what he heard sounded like it could lead to a successful path for SC
14:11:02 <Rachael> Rachael action to invite Steve and John Kirkwood to the WCAG meeting to discuss Undo Errors. Include relevant links
14:11:02 <johnkirkwood> present+
14:11:05 <JohnRochford> I was present for all COGA discussions during the AGWG meeting at TPAC.
14:11:20 <Rachael> Lisa: I asked more experts for input on mental health. We did get more input
14:13:04 <Rachael> zakim, take up item 2
14:13:04 <Zakim> agendum 2. "updates, and tpac" taken up [from LisaSeemanKest]
14:13:05 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, next item
14:13:05 <Zakim> agendum 2 was just opened, LisaSeemanKest
14:13:37 <JohnRochford> I reviewed the text for Silver. I suggest it be copyedited before it is sent.
14:14:04 <Rachael> Rachael: Need any more comments on silver letter.
14:14:14 <Rachael> JohnRochford: did review.
14:15:23 <Rachael> Lisa: Update, In the APA group, there is a checklist that Michael is working on so groups can self evaluate whether they support full accessibility support.  Some of COGA needs are included but I think there are things in our patterns and other documents that are not in the list.
14:16:10 <Rachael> ...If you can't support our patterns in these technologies, then content creators can't support. Its important for platform creators. Does anyone want to take a stab at reviewing it? Comparing our patterns with our document?
14:16:31 <LisaSeemanKest> http://w3c.github.io/apa/fast/checklist
14:16:40 <Rachael> Michael: This checklist is aimed at technologies not authors.  The patterns to content won't apply but the technology to facilitate the patterns apply.
14:17:08 <Rachael> Lisa: Make sure the support is there.  Can you use something that saves a password or use an extension in this platform?
14:17:25 <Rachael> ...how well is that reflected in the platform?
14:17:57 <Rachael> Michael: Let me offer a translation. Instead of saying can you use a password, it would say does it support authentication?
14:19:27 <Rachael> ...extensions are user agent features. You might say extensibility of the technology.  Not all technology needs to be extensible. What categories of technologies need to provide extensibility. If extensibility features are provided, they provide full support of accessibility features. Accessibility features are avialable to increase accessibility.
14:19:34 <Rachael> ....we need to be reasonable about what we are asking technology.
14:19:52 <abij> abij has joined #coga
14:20:28 <Rachael> Lisa: This is for groups creating technology. Does anyone want to volunteer to take a look at it?
14:20:55 <Rachael> ...any other TPAC updates?
14:20:59 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, next item
14:20:59 <Zakim> agendum 1. "actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage" taken up [from LisaSeemanKest]
14:21:50 <Rachael> Lisa: We have user needs everywhere. We want to make sure in all our documents, we have all the user needs represented. That each user need has a persona and a pattern.
14:22:18 <Rachael> ...its part of the next version of content usable and the gap analysis.
14:22:45 <Rachael> ...we had user needs in two places in the gap analysis and also in the design guide. Some matched up but not consistently
14:23:22 <Rachael> ....for each objective in the design guide, I pulled together from user needs from all the places. I didn't add new ones but made sure we had a single list.
14:23:40 <LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Rt51xg57oZW56mfTw_t33T9zlPDOV7o4Za6veCCqDtI/edit#gid=2019648557
14:24:37 <Rachael> Lisa: The excel sheet above is good for the editorial group but is difficult to manage so I pulled it out into a separate document. Please take a look at it.
14:25:01 <Rachael> ...I think we need a user review of us as users/experts.
14:25:47 <Rachael> ...have we got the user needs here? Are we missing any? And the other is from an old action item to compare the user needs to the other standards looking at this space.
14:25:52 <LisaSeemanKest> pending ABI - Review ETSI TR103 349 standard ETSI accessibility document move pending untill we organize our userneed
14:26:21 <LisaSeemanKest> q?
14:26:28 <LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xmmQkuZLEG014zDRVkgr3QLyINb7BNvWxqL7POn6Ei8/edit#
14:26:28 <abij> q+
14:26:58 <Rachael> ABI: Is this for adding to the personas or separate?
14:27:46 <Rachael> Lisa: It is a prerequisite to the persona work.  Because we got out of synch in different places, the work of linking the user needs to personas should likely wait until we have a clean list.
14:28:15 <Rachael> ...the order of work is (we think, please comment): 1. Create a consolidted list of user needs. and then 2. Map the user needs to the personas and patterns.
14:28:30 <Rachael> ....this user need is met by this pattern. This user need is described by this persona.
14:28:45 <Rachael> ...Then 3. We can fill in the gaps.
14:29:20 <Rachael> Lisa: Abi, can I ask you to start on the action item of comparing it to the ETSI standard and move that up?
14:29:26 <LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xmmQkuZLEG014zDRVkgr3QLyINb7BNvWxqL7POn6Ei8/edit#
14:30:23 <Rachael> Abi: Where it is saying things like "I know what is not a control" I would write it differently.  How should they be written?
14:31:41 <Rachael> Lisa:  We have a page that provides a pattern such as "I, as a ??? user, need ??? so that ???"  That is another job. We need to find the template and then change these to meet the template.
14:31:55 <Rachael> Abi: You are referring to a template. Where is the template?
14:33:19 <Rachael> Lisa: On our Wiki. Need to find.
14:33:36 <LisaSeemanKest> q?
14:33:42 <Rachael> Lisa: 3 things to do: 1. check the list by experts 2. Check against standards 3. Get everything into template form
14:33:48 <LisaSeemanKest> ack a
14:34:00 <Rachael> ...Abi are you still OK with the ETSI pattern?
14:34:02 <Rachael> Abi: Yes
14:34:35 <Rachael> Lisa: John Rochford and JF, are you willing to review this?
14:34:58 <Rachael> ...John Rochford and John Kirkwood, can you read it over?
14:35:12 <Rachael> John Rochford: I do not feel comfortable doing this.
14:35:29 <Rachael> Lisa: Even if it is only some objectives?
14:35:49 <Rachael> John Rochford: I am focusing on accessible authentication.
14:35:51 <LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xmmQkuZLEG014zDRVkgr3QLyINb7BNvWxqL7POn6Ei8/edit#
14:36:15 <Rachael> John Kirkwood: I am comfortable with reviewing it again.
14:36:26 <Rachael> Lisa: Over the next week?
14:36:35 <Rachael> John Kirkwood: Yes
14:36:55 <Rachael> Lisa: I will also try to do so but the more eyes the better.
14:37:23 <LisaSeemanKest> q?
14:37:28 <Rachael> ....Then we can move forward with getting the mapping complete
14:37:28 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, next item
14:37:28 <Zakim> agendum 3. "review user needs   https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Rt51xg57oZW56mfTw_t33T9z  lPDOV7o4Za6veCCqDtI/edit#gid=2019648557" taken up [from LisaSeemanKest]
14:37:47 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, close item 3
14:37:47 <Zakim> agendum 3, review user needs   https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Rt51xg57oZW56mfTw_t33T9z  lPDOV7o4Za6veCCqDtI/edit#gid=2019648557, closed
14:37:49 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:37:49 <Zakim> 4. set next steps for user needs [from LisaSeemanKest]
14:38:42 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, close item 4
14:38:42 <Zakim> agendum 4, set next steps for user needs, closed
14:38:43 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:38:43 <Zakim> 5. FTF at csun? [from LisaSeemanKest]
14:38:53 <Rachael> Lisa: Does anyone have questions about the order of work?
14:39:10 <Rachael> Lisa: Question: Will people be at CSUN?  Should we schedule a face to face?
14:39:17 <JohnRochford> +1
14:39:20 <Rachael> +1
14:39:47 <JohnRochford> Yes, I will likely attend CSUN.
14:40:05 <abij> Not sure i can attend due to funding constraints
14:40:28 <Rachael> JF: AG typically meets Monday and Tuesday so if you want to do this, we should check with Andrew and Alastair and also get in early to make sure there is space.
14:40:39 <Rachael> Lisa: Maybe the weekend after?
14:40:58 <Rachael> Michael: That may be too many meetings the weekend after.
14:41:02 <JF> +1 to M. cooper
14:41:14 <JF> s/cooper/
14:41:45 <Rachael> Lisa: First we need to find out is the group will be there. We dont' have enough people on the call today to know.
14:41:50 <JF> s/+1 to M. /+1 to M. Cooper
14:42:05 <Rachael> ...Next step is to ask people.
14:42:24 <Rachael> Lisa action to see if at least 5 people can go.
14:42:29 <Rachael> q+
14:42:47 <LisaSeemanKest> ack q
14:43:13 <LisaSeemanKest> ack r
14:43:19 <Rachael> Rachael: Even if we don't have a full on meeting, there may be enough people there to get together in the evening.
14:43:34 <Rachael> Lisa: If we do have enough people, we get so much work done during a face to face it may be worth having one.
14:43:42 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, next item
14:43:42 <Zakim> agendum 5. "FTF at csun?" taken up [from LisaSeemanKest]
14:43:49 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, close item 5
14:43:49 <Zakim> agendum 5, FTF at csun?, closed
14:43:50 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:43:50 <Zakim> 6. FAST https://w3c.github.io/apa/fast/#user-customization [from LisaSeemanKest]
14:44:22 <Rachael> Lisa: Back to talking about the FAST. Any questions?
14:44:56 <Rachael> ...I have a question for Michael: What is the time scale for this?When will it move forward? when will people start using it?
14:45:18 <Rachael> Michael: I don't have a formal schedule. It will be ever evolving but we are aiming for an approved version over the next few months
14:45:35 <Rachael> ...next couple months would be the best time for review.
14:46:23 <Rachael> JF: When you say reviewing, do you mean reviewing the document from the COGA point of view?
14:46:45 <Rachael> Michael: There are two documents. There is the full FAST framework. We are only looking at the checklist.
14:47:02 <Rachael> JF: I should have time to review.
14:47:16 <Rachael> Lisa: You can look at the pattern document and gap analysis.
14:48:01 <Rachael> the task is to look at the FAST checklist from a COGA perspective and compare it with the patterns to see what makes sense for the checklist ot support
14:48:36 <LisaSeemanKest> https://w3c.github.io/coga/content-usable/
14:48:43 <Rachael> Michael: It may be that technology doesn't support the entire pattern but that some aspect of the pattern requires technology support
14:48:45 <LisaSeemanKest> https://w3c.github.io/coga/content-usable/#appendix1
14:49:22 <Rachael> Lisa: There are many different groups. Example, voice xml would have to support objective 5 and 6.
14:49:56 <Rachael> JF: I am less familiar with this work here but I can do a review and go through making content usable and try to look at it through the FAST lense.
14:50:21 <JF> ACTION: JF to review https://w3c.github.io/coga/content-usable/ and FAST checklist
14:50:21 <trackbot> Created ACTION-316 - Review https://w3c.github.io/coga/content-usable/ and fast checklist [on John Foliot - due 2019-10-03].
14:50:48 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, next item
14:50:48 <Zakim> agendum 6. "FAST https://w3c.github.io/apa/fast/#user-customization" taken up [from LisaSeemanKest]
14:50:57 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, close item 6
14:50:57 <Zakim> agendum 6, FAST https://w3c.github.io/apa/fast/#user-customization, closed
14:50:59 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
14:50:59 <Zakim> 7. priorities review https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage [from LisaSeemanKest]
14:51:00 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, next item
14:51:01 <Zakim> agendum 7. "priorities review https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage" taken up [from LisaSeemanKest]
14:51:25 <LisaSeemanKest> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage#Priorities
14:51:32 <Rachael> Lisa: the last couple of minutes, we did a review of our priorities and put a summary of our reviews at the top of our actions.
14:52:01 <LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YH4YETBmAdhfL9p8FK5ATUiXDGibeJh66psQCSUAvLQ/edit#gid=0
14:52:22 <Rachael> ...it is easy to get brought down by the fact that everything is important. We had to prioritize our focus to remind ourselves what we are trying to do. We also have a spreadsheet where we built a prioritization. We wrote down everything we'd like to do.
14:52:55 <Rachael> ...we had to push things down compared with priorities at the top. Anything below a certain point we listed as wish list items.
14:53:32 <Rachael> ...we did note that everything is important. If someone gets funding and can take it up, fantastic! This is about facilitator and time prioritization.
14:54:09 <Rachael> ....We discussed this at a prior meeting but we asked if anyone had comments.
14:54:56 <Rachael> So this year we are focusing on the design document, WCAG 2.2 and personas. We wanted to get the gap analysis and glossary to wide review next year.
14:55:17 <JohnRochford> signing off now
14:55:39 <LisaSeemanKest> q?
14:55:43 <Rachael> ...by year 3, get the design guide and gap analysis published. Then revisit research. That is the order. More detail is in the spreadsheet. any comments?
14:56:18 <Rachael> ...do you all feel this is the right direction?
14:56:22 <Rachael> John Kirkwood: Yes
14:56:33 <Rachael> JF: It matches the larger pattern and vision, so yes
14:56:56 <abij> +1
14:57:25 <Rachael> Lisa: One thing you might take and run with if you are willing, is creating a testable statement for each pattern. Its important but only made the wishlist this year.
14:57:29 <LisaSeemanKest> q?
14:58:18 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, next item
14:58:18 <Zakim> I do not see any more non-closed or non-skipped agenda items, LisaSeemanKest
14:58:58 <johnkirkwood> bye all
15:00:12 <Rachael> bye
15:00:16 <Rachael> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:00:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/26-COGA-minutes.html Rachael
15:00:28 <Rachael> trackbot end meeting
15:00:28 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:00:28 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Fazio, stevelee_, Rachael, Jennie, stevelee, LisaSeemanKest, JF, JohnRochford, johnkirkwood
15:00:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:00:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/26-COGA-minutes.html trackbot